Quarter of a century without Fitzroy: Is the AFL better or worse off?

[Roylion]

In which city?

The VFL had two licences to bestow. Queensland had two consortiums bidding for one. At the end of July 1986 the VFL had reaffirms its commitment to a national competition in 1987, with a preference for a team from Brisbane even if a team from SA or WA was not in the league.

Most of the WAFL clubs wouldn't have been able to join any other breakaway competition with financial entry conditions, as seven out of the eight WAFL clubs were effectively insolvent and the WAFL itself was $1.3 million in debt in 1983.

So the only way to have a national competition was to expand the VFL. That expansion had already started to happen with the relocation of South Melbourne to Sydney.

In October 1985, the VFL commission released details of plans for a 14 team competition for 1987. By December 1985 all VFL clubs had signed license agreements with the league, ending any possibility of a breakaway competition. This was after a feasibility study conducted by the VFL on national football that recommended a 12 team competition – eight from Victoria, two from Adelaide and 1 from Perth and Sydney. In November 1985 the National Football League also proposed a national compeition, with a 12 team structure featuring 9 teams from Melbourne and one each from Sydney, Perth and Adelaide which was supported by the WAFL and apparently six Melbourne clubs saying they’d break away. However by December that option was out of the question. I twas VFL expansion or nothing.

Eventually the two licences on offer by the VFL for 1987 probably would have been filled by
a) either a club leaving the WAFL (maybe East Perth which applied to join the VFL in 1980 - some apparent details are here) or SANFL (Port Adelaide or Norwood) or more likely....
b) a new club set up by a private consortium either in Perth or Adelaide. The VFL had indicated that it would expand to WA by other means if the WAFL teams didnt support entry into the VFL.

In Queensland? But in this scenario Fitzroy are moving there in 1987. Do you mean WA?

What I'm saying if the WAFL had held off and decided to enter a club in the VFL, the VFL would have gone elsewhere. For example in 1985 St Kilda rejected an offer from Perth Businessman Alan Delaney to buy the Saints and move them to Perth.

The task would have been more arduous without both the licence fees. Would a second one have come in somewhere other than WA?

Possibly if the WAFL expressed no interest in joining the VFL.

Would they have sold a licence in Adelaide too? Or would the VFL have blocked Fitzroy's move to Brisbane so they could get another licence fee?

Fitzroy would likely to have been supported to go to Brisbane. Both the SANFL and the WAFL announced in early August 1986 that they were reconsidering joining the VFL as the VFL had announced it would take all of its existing Victorian clubs into the national competition in 1987. While the SANFL unanimously voted against joining the VFL in 1987, the WAFL commission and six of the eight WAFL clubs voted to apply to join the VFL in 1987.

Probably right, since it never happened in real life, but I'm positing a scenario where they had the gift of hindsight (or were simply better at working together) and changed their tune.

Had the VFL provided more incentives for Melbourne clubs to merge, then maybe it would have happened. Melbourne / Fitzroy, St Kilda / Fitzroy and Melbourne / North Melbourne were all involved in merger talks in 1986.

 

[Roylion]

The cull needed to bigger in the 90's when there was appetite for it.

And who was going to bring that about?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Most of the WAFL clubs wouldn't have been able to join any other breakaway competition with financial entry conditions, as seven out of the eight WAFL clubs were effectively insolvent and the WAFL itself was $1.3 million in debt in 1983.

It could be that it was a financial impossibility for the WAFL to stay in solidarity with the SANFL then, regardless of whether that took the form of continuing with separate competitions or forming a joint one with a smaller number of teams each. But if they could rustle up the money for a VFL licence with all the disadvantageous conditions like paying for other clubs' airfares, I wonder if there was actually an opportunity for something more.

Eventually the two licences on offer by the VFL for 1987 probably would have been filled by
a) either a club leaving the WAFL (maybe East Perth which applied to join the VFL in 1980 - some apparent details are here)

But didn't you just say they were all effectively insolvent and couldn't afford a licence fee?

b) a new club set up by a private consortium either in Perth or Adelaide. The VFL had indicated that it would expand to WA by other means if the WAFL teams didnt support entry into the VFL.

Again, who knows whether that would have been found acceptance from the fans without any local club backing. I still feel the WAFL sold out for a lower price than they could have got.

Fitzroy would likely to have been supported to go to Brisbane. Both the SANFL and the WAFL announced in early August 1986 that they were reconsidering joining the VFL as the VFL had announced it would take all of its existing Victorian clubs into the national competition in 1987. While the SANFL unanimously voted against joining the VFL in 1987, the WAFL commission and six of the eight WAFL clubs voted to apply to join the VFL in 1987.

I wonder if those clubs realised they were voting themselves into irrelevance. In any case, once the WAFL capitulated, the game was up for the SANFL, they just didn't realise it until Port made their play.

Had the VFL provided more incentives for Melbourne clubs to merge, then maybe it would have happened. Melbourne / Fitzroy, St Kilda / Fitzroy and Melbourne / North Melbourne were all involved in merger talks in 1986.

Interesting, I knew about the others but not St Kilda. I notice they weren't in your list of financially troubled clubs on the previous page. It amazes me how a club survived intact into the modern day with just one premiership in over a century, and which I thought was never as close to extinction as Footscray was with their similar lack of success. It's a real testament to St Kilda's long-suffering fans.

I suppose St Kilda had the benefit of a distinct geographical heartland for their fanbase, particularly once South had moved away. Fitzroy and North surely found this more difficult being hemmed in by Carlton, Collingwood and Essendon. Footscray also had a distinct geographical heartland, but a far less wealthy one.

 

[Roylion]

It could be that it was a financial impossibility for the WAFL to stay in solidarity with the SANFL then, regardless of whether that took the form of continuing with separate competitions or forming a joint one with a smaller number of teams each.

Ideally the WAFL and SANFL wanted a joint national competition. The VFL didn't.

But didn't you just say they were all effectively insolvent and couldn't afford a licence fee?

In regard to the WAFL, seven out of the eight...yep.

Again, who knows whether that would have been found acceptance from the fans without any local club backing. I still feel the WAFL sold out for a lower price than they could have got.

Once a break-way competition involving the VFL became an impossibility (December 1985) the only way the WAFL could be involved in a national competition was joining the VFL (who had already flagged moving to national competition as early as 1985).

Interesting, I knew about the others but not St Kilda. I notice they weren't in your list of financially troubled clubs on the previous page. It amazes me how a club survived intact into the modern day with just one premiership in over a century, and it's a real testament to their long-suffering fans.

Having a reasonable support base in a distinct geographical region that can rally in times of trouble. Like Footscray's efforts in 1989. Something Fitzroy didnt have sandwiched as they were between Collingwood and Carlton. Apsrt from its very early yearasm Fitzroy's most successful era was in the late 70s early 80s when they were at the Junction Oval down in St. Kilda. They had the fourth highest membership in the VFL in 1981.

 

[peetoo]

Better. One more Vic club to fold and the competition is set.

And if one did fold, the usual suspects would still want more, rinse and repeat.

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Wish they were still in the AFL

 

[Freomaniac]

The sheer size of Australia and it's population makes a national football competition very difficult. The AFL needed a successful Brisbane team and the only way they could move forward with that was the Fitzroy takeover. A very unfortunate set of circumstances, but necessary. The destruction of WA, SA, VFA and Country football has also been the price to pay for it....!

The population has increased a fair bit since 1996 . That is almost 30 years ago.

There is over 26 million people living here now.

I agree that the destruction of local footy in SA, WA and Victoria was a sad price to pay too.