Discussion Random Discussion

[CursingFijian]

I get the feeling with Trump, Morrison & Johnson they won because the working class has felt left behind and betrayed by the parties that are supposed to represent thier interests.

I think it’s more about low voter turnout. And this is where the documentary The Great Hack fascinated me, because Cambridge Analytica specialised in cultivating voter apathy, and the protest vote amongst certain demographics.

 

[Verdun66]

These past weeks are the least I’ve been involved with BF. The disappointment of the North game, and then the lockdown dropped my interest in most things. I am slightly in the vulnerable category so didn’t fancy getting the virus. Daily death figures here in the U.K. weren’t exactly thrilling.

So....with footy about to start I’m getting that little tingle again. Hope it’s not all short lived. Good to see the boys back on the track. Be good to to just watch some footy.

Now. Back to my SuperCoach team. I’ve completely forgotten who is in my team!

 

[jwikked]

I get the feeling with Trump, Morrison & Johnson they won because the working class has felt left behind and betrayed by the parties that are supposed to represent thier interests.

Trump and Boris sure. Morrison won because no one liked Bill Shorten and he took some stupid ideas to the election that they couldn’t properly explain.

I’ll never forget the feeling when the post election panel show was on the ABC, stacked with lefties and they were sitting there so depressed after expecting an easy victory. It was clearly meant to be a celebratory panel.

 

[Mowman]

I get the feeling with Trump, Morrison & Johnson they won because the working class has felt left behind and betrayed by the parties that are supposed to represent thier interests.

Morrison was more to do with Shorten being a pigeon and Labours crappy policies

 

[Kildonan]

Morrison was more to do with Shorten being a pigeon and Labours crappy policies

I think that the press makes a big difference. Murdoch has such a monopoly here in Australia and uses it to keep the right wing in power. You could see the effect when Kevin Rudd was in power. His performance was enough to ensure that his government would retain power for a significant time. The press were relentless. What was it? 2 people died in the Pink batts scheme?? The Murdoch press drove a long and persistent campaign against Kevin Rudd. (I disliked Rudd but he retains the record for the highest approval rating of any prime minister in Australia's history and his government's performance in the global financial crisis should have meant his continued success. His weakness was a lack of direct factional support from within the party. I loved Julia Gillard, Australia's best prime minister since Gough Whitlam, she inherited a minority government but the amount of legislation passed was enormous. She made huge contributions to human rights, to women, to invalids, to Australians in general. Australia's economy was ranked no 1 in the world under her care (we have slipped to below 20 now under LNP guidance). Her failing was the illegal immigration issue via sea. She wanted to find a humanitarian way of preventing the loss of life for those who were forced to pay their life savings for one way passage on a rickety boat. The media were responsible for highlighting the issue and making it a driving force for change. Racism became a voting demographic and remains so to this day. The politics of fear andf hatred dominate our society. Bill Shorten should have won. Murdoch ran a disinformation campaign over the franking credits issue and this was enough to consolidate the conservative vote giving LNP the victory through the Queensland votes. Note that Murdoch controls 19 of the 20 Queensland newspapers and has various other popular media outlets as well.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I've always been with Socrates - he had his doubts about democracy and argued that only those who think about it should be allowed to vote.

"His fear is that uninformed people are more susceptible to manipulations of those who are with ill-intent. A great rhetorician who have no intention of being a leader but to fatten their wallet, can easily sway the masses to vote for them.

He gives the example of the doctor and the sweet shop owner. The sweet shop owner can make the argument against the doctor that “he gives you bitter syrups and pokes holes on you, cuts your skin and take your blood,” but he can offer you many sweets and candies.

Surely no one with their right mind would vote for the doctor would it? The sweet shop owner in the story is a demagouge."

 

[gringo2011]

Morrison was more to do with Shorten being a pigeon and Labours crappy policies

Yep total Steve Bradbury prime minister.

 

[gringo2011]

I've always been with Socrates - he had his doubts about democracy and argued that only those who think about it should be allowed to vote.

"His fear is that uninformed people are more susceptible to manipulations of those who are with ill-intent. A great rhetorician who have no intention of being a leader but to fatten their wallet, can easily sway the masses to vote for them.

He gives the example of the doctor and the sweet shop owner. The sweet shop owner can make the argument against the doctor that “he gives you bitter syrups and pokes holes on you, cuts your skin and take your blood,” but he can offer you many sweets and candies.

Surely no one with their right mind would vote for the doctor would it? The sweet shop owner in the story is a demagouge."

Until you get a dictator or nutbag like in the days of true monarchies. Democracy is a good concept until humans manipulate the outcomes. It's more the financial backing that should be abolished. Make is very regulated where you get life in prison for political corruption or undeclared affiliation. Press that are proven to be manipulating out comes can share the same fate.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Until you get a dictator or nutbag like in the days of true monarchies. Democracy is a good concept until humans manipulate the outcomes. It's more the financial backing that should be abolished. Make is very regulated where you get life in prison for political corruption or undeclared affiliation. Press that are proven to be manipulating out comes can share the same fate.

I've always thought the benevolent dictator/philospher king model was the way to go. But you're right -the problem was picking the right one.

Marcus Aurelius's rule is generally considered to be the highpoint of Roman Empire (absolute power thankfully coupled to wisdom and virtue), but he stuffed it up by appointing his son as his successor who turned out to be a megalomaniac and was in the end assassinated.

So 99.9% of the time the old adage "power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" rings true.

 

[jwikked]

Blaming “Murdoch” for the ills of the world is overplayed and boring. Labor lost the last election and it had nothing to do with “Murdoch”

 

[Kildonan]

Blaming “Murdoch” for the ills of the world is overplayed and boring. Labor lost the last election and it had nothing to do with “Murdoch”

Disagree entirely. The media domination by this power monger is absolutely stultifying. I am not the only person to recognize the damage it is doing to Australia (even more than it does to US and UK) because the media laws were altered to allow his ownership of a monopoly of Australia’s media.

 

[gringo2011]

Blaming “Murdoch” for the ills of the world is overplayed and boring. Labor lost the last election and it had nothing to do with “Murdoch”

You can have both. Murdoch is a germ but Labor managed to **** themselves on top of him. It was a bizarre election with a right wing take over of the Liberals taking place with no publicity and infighting that made Labor under Rudd/ Gillard look like a thumb wrestle. All the moderates walked from the Libs at once leaving a bunch of Minerals Council stooges and hard right nut bags in charge.

 

[gringo2011]

Disagree entirely. The media domination by this power monger is absolutely stultifying. I am not the only person to recognize the damage it is doing to Australia (even more than it does to US and UK) because the media laws were altered to allow his ownership of a monopoly of Australia’s media.

Especially in places like Queensland where he owns the voice of the state with no alternative.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've always thought the benevolent dictator/philospher king model was the way to go. But you're right -the problem was picking the right one.

Marcus Aurelius's rule is generally considered to be the highpoint of Roman Empire (absolute power thankfully coupled to wisdom and virtue), but he stuffed it up by appointing his son as his successor who turned out to be a megalomaniac and was in the end assassinated.

So 99.9% of the time the old adage "power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely" rings true.

It works fine , but the "model" doesn't work fine, because there is no way of ensuring the benevolence.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Disagree entirely. The media domination by this power monger is absolutely stultifying. I am not the only person to recognize the damage it is doing to Australia (even more than it does to US and UK) because the media laws were altered to allow his ownership of a monopoly of Australia’s media.

Why would Murdoch even care about Australian politics these days?

 

[Kildonan]

Why would Murdoch even care about Australian politics these days?

I ask myself the same question. I suppose that it is a power thing. Murdoch is the king maker. He then tells the king what policies to pursue. He is creating a far right wing world where elitism and entrenched power have become inheritable.
Maybe he is doing it so that his offspring will wield power and control for generations.

I can’t say for sure. And he is only one example of king makers - the Koch brothers is another. Both seem to promote far right authoritarian politics

 

[Moral Decay]

Until you get a dictator or nutbag like in the days of true monarchies. Democracy is a good concept until humans manipulate the outcomes. It's more the financial backing that should be abolished. Make is very regulated where you get life in prison for political corruption or undeclared affiliation. Press that are proven to be manipulating out comes can share the same fate.

There are some pretty easy "fixes" that we can institute very quickly, the press have voluntary codes of conduct, which they routinely ignore time to get rid of them and create compulsory codes of conduct then use a regulator with teeth, same as the problem with the banking regulator, give them real teeth, give us a national ICAC, investigating all levels of government again with real teeth.

Take private funding away from political parties and call it for what it is "corruption", in the end people are working for the people that pay them as long as funding doesn't come from the public purse politicians are loyal to either unions or industry, or they are like Martin Furguson who are loyal to nothing but money, his involvement in Hydrogen off the Timor Sea is amazing.

Ban foreign funding to "ïndependent think tanks", looking at you IPA and the Confucius Institutes.

No more Politicians having an afterlife in lobbying or being employed in any area of their ministerial responsibility for a decade.

I know this won't be popular but create 10 senate seats as peoples seats with a double term and life pensions that are decided by Lottery for interested adults, 5 to be appointed at every electoral cycle, give it a run for 20 years with the prospect of expanding it to the entire senate.

 

[Stewart66]

I think it’s more about low voter turnout. And this is where the documentary The Great Hack fascinated me, because Cambridge Analytica specialised in cultivating voter apathy, and the protest vote amongst certain demographics.

They also encouraged anger & division through social media .

 

[StFly]

Why would Murdoch even care about Australian politics these days?

You largely control masses by controlling the narrative, given he's a media baron in "nations", plural, he effectively drives discussion to push agenda similar to kings since it brings decadence in reward.

 

[Stewart66]

I think that the press makes a big difference. Murdoch has such a monopoly here in Australia and uses it to keep the right wing in power. You could see the effect when Kevin Rudd was in power. His performance was enough to ensure that his government would retain power for a significant time. The press were relentless. What was it? 2 people died in the Pink batts scheme?? The Murdoch press drove a long and persistent campaign against Kevin Rudd. (I disliked Rudd but he retains the record for the highest approval rating of any prime minister in Australia's history and his government's performance in the global financial crisis should have meant his continued success. His weakness was a lack of direct factional support from within the party. I loved Julia Gillard, Australia's best prime minister since Gough Whitlam, she inherited a minority government but the amount of legislation passed was enormous. She made huge contributions to human rights, to women, to invalids, to Australians in general. Australia's economy was ranked no 1 in the world under her care (we have slipped to below 20 now under LNP guidance). Her failing was the illegal immigration issue via sea. She wanted to find a humanitarian way of preventing the loss of life for those who were forced to pay their life savings for one way passage on a rickety boat. The media were responsible for highlighting the issue and making it a driving force for change. Racism became a voting demographic and remains so to this day. The politics of fear andf hatred dominate our society. Bill Shorten should have won. Murdoch ran a disinformation campaign over the franking credits issue and this was enough to consolidate the conservative vote giving LNP the victory through the Queensland votes. Note that Murdoch controls 19 of the 20 Queensland newspapers and has various other popular media outlets as well.

Brands Archive - NewsCorp Australia

www.newscorpaustralia.com

Queensland papers were non stop Palmer paid for full page advertising daily in all Newscorp promoting
only one agenda.

Why would Rupert Murdoch care about Australia ...that’s easy .......Lachlan Murdoch.

Don‘t care about any politicians anyone who thinks they interested in anything but themselves .
Totally delusional

Paul Keating‘s comment always remains true.

“ Back self interest at least you know it’s trying “

 

[Stewart66]

Until you get a dictator or nutbag like in the days of true monarchies. Democracy is a good concept until humans manipulate the outcomes. It's more the financial backing that should be abolished. Make is very regulated where you get life in prison for political corruption or undeclared affiliation. Press that are proven to be manipulating out comes can share the same fate.

Trump helps rich to profiteer from the pandemic as US inequality balloons - Michael West

Inequality in the US explodes. Donald Trump's response to Covid-19 has been great for corporations and the one-percenters, not so good for Americans, writes @DavidCayJ.

www.michaelwest.com.au

 

[Stewart66]

Brands Archive - NewsCorp Australia

www.newscorpaustralia.com

Queensland papers were non stop Palmer paid for full page advertising daily in all Newscorp promoting
only one agenda.

Why would Rupert Murdoch care about Australia ...that’s easy .......Lachlan Murdoch.

Don‘t care about any politicians anyone who thinks they interested in anything but themselves .
Totally delusional

Paul Keating‘s comment always remains true.

“ Back self interest at least you know it’s trying “

News Corp and Packer aged care "win" is tip of corporate welfare iceberg - Michael West

The Murdochs and Packers have got their fingers in the taxpayer honeypot again, this time nabbing nearly $6 million from the Government without tender for their website Mable

www.michaelwest.com.au

 

[plugger66]

I think that the press makes a big difference. Murdoch has such a monopoly here in Australia and uses it to keep the right wing in power. You could see the effect when Kevin Rudd was in power. His performance was enough to ensure that his government would retain power for a significant time. The press were relentless. What was it? 2 people died in the Pink batts scheme?? The Murdoch press drove a long and persistent campaign against Kevin Rudd. (I disliked Rudd but he retains the record for the highest approval rating of any prime minister in Australia's history and his government's performance in the global financial crisis should have meant his continued success. His weakness was a lack of direct factional support from within the party. I loved Julia Gillard, Australia's best prime minister since Gough Whitlam, she inherited a minority government but the amount of legislation passed was enormous. She made huge contributions to human rights, to women, to invalids, to Australians in general. Australia's economy was ranked no 1 in the world under her care (we have slipped to below 20 now under LNP guidance). Her failing was the illegal immigration issue via sea. She wanted to find a humanitarian way of preventing the loss of life for those who were forced to pay their life savings for one way passage on a rickety boat. The media were responsible for highlighting the issue and making it a driving force for change. Racism became a voting demographic and remains so to this day. The politics of fear andf hatred dominate our society. Bill Shorten should have won. Murdoch ran a disinformation campaign over the franking credits issue and this was enough to consolidate the conservative vote giving LNP the victory through the Queensland votes. Note that Murdoch controls 19 of the 20 Queensland newspapers and has various other popular media outlets as well.

Sound like a true saints supporter always a reason why you side loses

 

[gringo2011]

Why would Murdoch even care about Australian politics these days?

Because he does in most places from Israel, England and anywhere else he has business interests. His Australian business holdings are still very substantial.

 

[Mowman]

Blaming “Murdoch” for the ills of the world is overplayed and boring. Labor lost the last election and it had nothing to do with “Murdoch”

This
Easier then looking at the real issues that labour have and the easy way out