Autopsy Rd 15 Carlton v Collingwood Autopsy thread

[Stig O'Hara]

Honestly don't know where we are heading. Go back 2 years we win 14 games and we are a kick out of a Preliminary. Essentially with the same list the club has gone backwards, fact of the matter is we can't string a run of wins together, (we've won 14 games in a season once in the last 12 years) and even with 3 years of finals experience, we still can't take it up a notch against the better teams. Really these blokes have no-one to blame but themselves.

Heads will roll.

 

[ZabsBlues]

Remember guys...threads like this will come and go, as will the deadshits looking for a bite.

The Essendon Football Club will have the doping scandal as part of their history forever.

Just sit back and ...

Damn, you stole my thunder.

2 Positives
1: Andy Mac
2: we are not Essendope.

 

[BlueMania]

i can't understand how they can just switch off like they did after such a great start. Even after losing Waite ! Still not sold on Malthouse either.

 

[Blue DNA]

I feel like I've been conned. All year we've had "honourable" losses which lead us to believe that we weren't too far off. After tonight, I don't even know where to begin!!

Absolutely shattered

Utterly disappointing debacle. I fear you are right.

The fact that we have been competitive and so close against top teams gave me hope that at some point the chemistry would all come together. We were just a win or two away from pulling opposition teams apart and developing a winning culture. Half way through the 1st quarter I dared to dream we were capable. By the end of the 1st quarter the doubts re-emerged. By the end of the 2nd quarter, the dream was turning into another nightmare. No fight, hopelessly outclassed. It was a 1.1 to 6.4 shellacking. My son and I uncharacteristically speechless. You could feel the season slipping away.

I thought we were better than we are. We need more than just a top up KPF or KPD to be serious challengers. There needs to hard work and major improvement in many areas. Yes, it's time to bring in youth to develop for the future - but in a measured way. We don't want to go back to the regular demoralising losses of the Dark Days.

High expectations at the start of the season are now sad reflections wondering where we are really at.

Our next games are against St.Kilda, North and Gold Coast. Perhaps we will feel better if we play somewhere near our potential and win all of these before facing Fremantle. Playing finals does not interest me this year. Just want to see improvement and hope for the future now.

 

[Graffy4242]

One of the non-negotiables in football is effort and intensity. We threw the towel in early.
No on- field leaders. No one to fly the flag when things are going south. Mentally fragile.
Sweeping changes needed over the summer. Hughes, Barker, Capuano need to go.30 psychologists in.
Gibbs up for trade. Lack of player development has been disgraceful.
Already sick of hearing, "we played a very good football side." Maybe it's because we're a very bad football side.
Can someone explain to me why none of our crumbing forwards are ever in out forward 50 arc when the ball gets there? Truly baffling.

John Barker thread.

 

[mike ockerts]

I was astonished at the game last night, and not much has changed this morning, I have always thought we were around the mark and kept convincing myself that we would take the next step with this list, boy I don't believe that right now let me tell you, gutted, absolutely gutted

 

[navybluesince75]

reality slapped me in the face last night and it still hurts

i have wanted to blame ratten's use of gibbs for his lack of interest in certain games - that excuse is gone but the problem remains
yarran has to play football on his terms and malthouse seems to be losing the battle of wills with him
lucas is the only positive development this season, kicking efficiency is a real concern but at least the effort is the same every week
kreuzer has such glaring positives but for mine is just not big enough to dominate as a ruckman and not agile enough to cover it around the ground, all effort and all he has is given every game but is in nowhere land size wise for mine.
murphy is a one-two specialist most weeks you could take 30% off his stats for a real indication, yes he goes when it is his turn and is a gun midfielder but his numbers are inflated. clearance numbers well down on 2011 3.6 compared to 5.4, contested possessions 9.6 compared to 12.8 the change in his game is plain to see if you want to.
judd, scotland, carrazzo, waite all on the downward trend
the proof will be in next season as to whether betts is in the above category also
watson,mccarthy,mitchell all struggling for impact really puts a hole in recent recruitment
joseph, duigan ,laidler all playing out time in the vfl

rebuild is an ugly word when you have not really achieved but that is what i see

 

[Graffy4242]

I was thinking last night when looking at the near total collapse of Judd's kicking ability. Who at Carlton besides Walker and Yarran can kick a long low accurate raking drop punt in a game? When was the last time you saw a forward diving forward to take a low mark? All I see is crossbody kicks, snaps, up and unders, high and long, attempted torps etc

Mitch Robinson says hello.

 

[HBF]

I seriously don't think I have felt this deflated after a game since the Pagan era.

Same. I was furious after the game last night. Not that we lost, but the way we lost. Once Waite went off the ground, it was as if the other 21 just dropped their heads and Collingwood ran all over the top of us.

 

[HBF]

Damn, you stole my thunder.

2 Positives
1: Andy Mac
2: we are not Essendope.

I'll add another couple of positives:

1. Lucas getting 33 touches. Ran all night, and from the stands didn't torch the ball IIRC.
2. Hendo........again. He and Walks will be duking it out for the B&F.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Same. I was furious after the game last night. Not that we lost, but the way we lost. Once Waite went off the ground, it was as if the other 21 just dropped their heads and Collingwood ran all over the top of us.

After about 5 minutes into the third quarter, I stopped being angry and I just became numb. Oh, Collingwood has kicked another one...oh, and we dropped the ball. Again.

Now I just feel flat. Are we ever going to play as a team and improve?

 

[AleRena]

IMO Carlton's swagger is the double edged sword which at present is the elephant in the room.

Sure, the demanding of success makes Carlton one of the most successful clubs in the AFL, winning 16 premierships is no easy feat. Yet somehow I can't help but think that the last 13 years we have made too many cut throat decisions that have ultimately made blood drip from our hearts rather then the opposition.

Pagan, Ratten and our recruiting the prime candidates. I won't look into MM yet as he has inherited another man's list, which as we see time and time again is full of many holes and not suited to his gameplan.

I like many of my Blue brethren are thirsty for success, hell I'd even welcome consistency at the very least, looking back over the last decade perhaps Carlton should have taken a step back especially with recruiting and build back the swagger from the ground up rather then plug away at holes...

There are no more quick fixes with footy, we learnt that the hard way, Carlton should have cut their loses and started fresh from the ground up.

Where to from here? I have faith in MM, I believe that his experience and arrogance demand success.

As a wise man once said, "The ox is slow, but the earth is patient..."

 

[HBF]

Had to turn it off at 3QT, just couldn't watch anymore of that crap that was served up.

So many gutless players out there at the moment. I would love to see Mick pull the axe out this week and start afresh, bring in some different players, throw some players around. Our year is over, but we can start/continue to develop.

McInnes Jamison Tuohy
Yarran Watson Simpson
Gibbs Cachia Judd
Robinson Mitchell Graham
Kreuzer Henderson Betts
Warnock Murphy Mclean
Carrazzo Walker Garlett Menzel

Outs - Lucas, Curnow, Casboult, Armfield
Ins - Graham, Menzel, Warnock, Mitchell

We need to start playing some young blokes. Bring Menzel back, and give Graham a crack as well. As good as Kreuzer is, we need another ruck as far as I am concerned. Let Warnock come in and ruck, and leave Mitchell and Henderson to play as proper forwards, with a resting ruckman there. Start to test oppositions talls out. Bring Watson in, regardless of VFL form, and leave him in for the rest of the year. Get his confidence up. We saw how useful Ben Reid was tonight, and how useful Carslise how been this year as the swing man. Henderson is every bit as good as these guys, so utilize that.

Wouldn't mind seeing Tom Temay come into the team as well, we need a rugged midfielder who actually has some poise and kicking skills. Hopefully he can develop into that.

Did you actually watch the game last night?
Lucas had 33 touches at 75% and kicked a goal - no chance he'll be dropped after last night.
I'd argue that he produced his best game for the club last night.

 

[HBF]

After about 5 minutes into the third quarter, I stopped being angry and I just became numb. Oh, Collingwood has kicked another one...oh, and we dropped the ball. Again.

Now I just feel flat. Are we ever going to play as a team and improve?

Not until Mick turns over the list at the end of this year and next.
Expect a massive turnover of players and players that we thought were untouchable will be given a tap on the shoulder.

 

[Feva]

Just got up this morning hoping the pain of last night would be gone and forgotten ... But instead I am reliving it all over again!

 

[PumpyChowdown]

Well, I've slept on it. Woken up this morning just as pissed off as last night.

Axe swinging time.

B: Jamison -- Watson -- McInnes
HB: Tuohy -- McCarthy -- Laidler

C: Simpson -- Judd -- Walker
R: Mclean -- Warnock -- Murphy

HF: Garlett -- Henderson -- Lucas
F: Kreuzer -- Mitchell -- Menzel

Int: Carrazzo -- Graham -- Cachia
Sub: Armfield

Out: Gibbs, Robinson, Betts, Waite, Curnow, Yarran, Casboult
In: Watson, Laidler, Warnock, McCarthy, Menzel, Graham, Mitchell

Back six: Bring in McCarthy and Watson and challenge them to claim the two KPD spots over the rest of the year. Move Jamo to third tall/rebounding defender to take some of the stress off his shoulders and free him up a bit to play his running game. Bring in Laidler for some strength and experience. Hendo to the forward line.

Midfield: Simply put our best players in there. Simmo and Walker on the wings playing a running outside role (Walker should be playing midfield and he can basically go back or forward as he see's fit ala Goddard). Judd, Mclean, Graham and Murphy playing inside roles. Carrazzo and Cachia playing shut down / tagging roles. Tuohy, Lucas, Garlett and Menzel to be rotated through the midfield at times. Warnock starting ruck, Kreuzer resting up forward. Warnock to spend time on the bench when resting - is no good up forward and that will allow us more run.

Forward: Again, challenge Hendo and Mitchell to claim the KPF spots over the next however many rounds. Tell them to stand up. Blood Menzel. Pump games into him. Lucas and Garlett playing as high half forwards rotating into the mids when required. Kreuzer resting down there, but when he goes into the ruck we should play a 5 man forward line.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

I dont know which game you were watching tonight, but Lucas was one of our best players tonight...

And we didnt lose the game because Waite went off... we lost the game because some of our players are so ingrained with stupidly bad ******* habits and they wont do anything to break those habits

Agree so now the only option is to offload them and turn the list over by introducing younger and more talented players.

By talent I mean players who have ball winning ability and above average skills so we dont have to turn them into taggers or defensive stoppers etc, we have far too many of these types.

Cachia, Curnow, Armfield, Ellard, Robinson, Joseph, Davies, Duigan, Collins and O'keefe are all similar in talent levels and we cant afford to carry this many on our list.

 

[Anzac16]

Did you actually watch the game last night?
Lucas had 33 touches at 75% and kicked a goal - no chance he'll be dropped after last night.
I'd argue that he produced his best game for the club last night.

Well like I said I did switch it off at 3QT. Like I said a few posts ago as well, once I had calmed down a bit I took some time to analyse the game a bit, and it was wrong for me to call out Lucas when he did infact play a great game. So sorry to Sugar, hope he comes out and smashes the Saints next week.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

How the silly do we let midfields continually pass the ball lace out to a leading forward when we are playing 163 defensive midfielders??

I can understand if we are playing an attacking midfield style but we don't anymore!

Jamo can't cop criticism for that its the 10 midfielders not doing their job!

**** off cachia, curnow, army & play more aggressive footy. Carrots tags again & we bring in a few 'skilled' mids!

Because the Collingwood blokes doing most of this damage were working off our more established players in Judd, Murphy, Carrazzo, McLean, Robinson, Betts, Garlett and Yarran.

These blokes are in a mindset where they think they dont have to defend and pressure or simply dont have the physical attributes to do it.

* Carrazzo is usually fine defensively but was under done last night and will get better.

 

[Blue Warrior]

I was always of the thinking that this year was a trial year for coach and players to see who stays and goes at the end of the year. My thinking was with the list we would still at least be up there just sneak in the 8 but geez have I over estimated,we need to play as a bloody team and work hard for each other. We never sheppard hard put on big blocks or stick up for the blokes who are getting smashed(Murphy injury vs hawks for example). I think it's a culture thing,too much me me me culture at the blues and i think (I Hope) that Malthouse can get rid of the these types of players and instill a team ethos that you always put your teammate first and play for each other like your life depended on it. I really hope that this can happen and he doesn't turn out to be Malcolm Blight Mark 2(seen as the messiah get paid a fortune got rid of after a year). It's time some players got over themselves and put the team first and pick up their lips and play to keep their spot because we have some really good kids in the 2's that should be getting a game.

 

[BlueBelle]

Agree - Matthew Lloyd has been banging on about it for weeks, and as much as I hate to admit, I find his observations tend to be spot on.

Once Collingwood got going we just look so one paced. This is accentuated by Betts, Garlett and Yarran doing nothing but we just never looked like breaking Collingwoods line and getting it past centre !


We have Carrazzo, Cachia, Curnow and Armfield - two of these must go !. Carazzo will stay and I think Cachia is worth persevering with for a few weeks so I would drop Curnow and Armfield.

Interesting listening to Mark Fine last night saying how VFL players can lose heart if continually overlooked for selection and Carlton basically hasn't changed it's team for 5-6 weeks.

Season is shot so time now to find out who can play.

Army can play on a HFF. I'd be leaving him in but omitting Robbo. Robbo has become a lability unfortunately

 

[LANGFORDandSON]

John Barker thread.

I was gobsmacked when you guys recruited Barker, great bloke but when his coaching had Buddy and Roughie running around with no structure I thought his time as a specialist coach was up.

A weeks a long time in football and if you can find anywhere near the intensity you showed against us the finals aren't out of the question (especially after they take Essendons points).

Good luck, the rest of my family are Bluebaggers so honestly hope to see them get the hunger back.

I'll see myself out.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Army can play on a HFF. I'd be leaving him in but omitting Robbo. Robbo has become a lability unfortunately

I agree with this, we go to him across half forward a fair bit but he doesn't mark it that often and goes to ground too much. Kicking and decision making is a worry when he does win it so not sure what role we have for him.

Send him to the NB's to find some touch and confidence then try him in the middle or even defense when he is recalled.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Same. I was furious after the game last night. Not that we lost, but the way we lost. Once Waite went off the ground, it was as if the other 21 just dropped their heads and Collingwood ran all over the top of us.

Exactly ... it was as if that once they saw him down, they just realised that they couldn't win and that was it.

 

[HBF]

Army can play on a HFF. I'd be leaving him in but omitting Robbo. Robbo has become a lability unfortunately

He was crap last night. Summed it all up when we ran under the ball going to a mark.
At least you got to go out onto the ground last night BG.