Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[South of the Yarra]

When people call Australia the lucky country, do you think all Australians are lucky?

And is our entire country 'sunburnt"?

 

[tandino]

I have to admit I love a good screenshot that has the volume slider in it.

I'm a bit of a habitual volume slider screenshotter myself.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Carringbush2010 doesn't like the implication that he's racist, by virtue of so strict a definition of what racism is that it requires possession of a Klan hood, a burning cross, a noose and a written set of directions with motive on who someone'd lynch next coupled with a stapled copy of ID whilst being caught at the scene of the crime in mid act before one could successfully label someone racist.

But only if they're wearing the Klan hood, mind. Everything else could be right, but if they're not wearing the hood they're not racist.

Lol nice hyperbole.

 

[Tiger Balme]

You posted three quotes about race, by a conservative.

Do you believe Thomas Sowell to be a self hating black because he's a conservative?

 

[Carringbush2010]

No it implies that the laws and culture are racist.

Which I know you loathe the idea of because you can't handle the idea of structural or systemic racism, it's all just a few bad apples.

Australia is a colony, the establishment of the colony was racist, the theft of land and creation of the constitution was racist.

Actions of successive state and federal governments have been racist.

At the last election both major parties had racism baked into their campaigns.

We have a racist media and political class along with racist laws and law enforcement.

Our culture is based on the British Empire which was and still is also a racist empire.

Australia isn't the people living here it's the state and the state is racist and as long as the people living here continue to vote for and support the continuation of the state then it will continue to be a racist country regardless of percentage of people living here that are or are not racist themselves

Pity you have such a pessimistic view of our country, sure there are racists aholes in every sphere, but I confidently say I don't believe that is for most of our citizens.

I hope you find some sort of reason to like our country and our people in it, not gonna hold my breath though.

I'm not disputing that some laws and some of the white supremacy cultures exist, or that some of the media is racist and discriminatory, I just don't believe it's popular among the majority of our population.

I also have faith that most Australians, of every background, are tolerant and even pleasant toward the next person.

You however come across as the bad = majority and you give the impression you are bitter about most things and believe that most are not tolerant and harbor hate towards others.

Such a shame.

I'll end my discussion with you here, I'll kindly ask you do the same.

 

[Chief]

Do you believe Thomas Sowell to be a self hating black because he's a conservative?

Wow where did that come from?

 

[Roby]

It didn't tell me anything I didn't already know and that I had already known for ages with regards to what it's about and what we are voting on.

Your problem and others like you in this thread have is that you lump everyone in together who doesn't agree with you.

I haven't looked at any Yes or No pamphlets, I don't watch Sky News, I haven't listened to a word that Dutton has had to say on the matter except for his stupid idea to have another referendum if he's voted in. I've barely listened to a word that Albo has said on the matter.

It's not about them, they both have one vote each like you do and I do, I don't give a flying * what either of them thinks or says.

I'm voting no because of them, I do not trust any of them. That entire 18 mins and 24 secs that I just watched was almost entirely devoted to what politicians and lawyers think. It just reinforced my decision to vote no.

Now that might be s**t reason to you, but it's my vote and not yours, so I don't particularly care.

So you just attacked me but I just wanted you watch the video and give your thoughts/counter argument.

The problem with your approach is that it's impossible to know what your really stand for, which means I have to make assumptions.

Did you see the post about the QLD cops, earlier? I see this behaviour often IRL. I put 2 and 2 together, and make the assumptions those that hold those thoughts come on this forum too; they're also No voters.

 

[rank and file]

When people call Australia the lucky country, do you think all Australians are lucky?

Midnight Oils best tune.

 

[Gralin]

Pity you have such a pessimistic view of our country, sure there are racists aholes in every sphere, but I confidently say I don't believe that is for most of our citizens.

Yes I'm aware of your position on this and your agreement with the modern US white supremacist movement on what constitutes racism.

I hope you find some sort of reason to like our country and our people in it, not gonna hold my breath though.

I like plenty of things about this place, I tend to think patriotism is stupid though

I'm not disputing that some laws and some of the white supremacy cultures exist, or that some of the media is racist and discriminatory, I just don't believe it's popular among the majority of our population.

Yes and you will continue to say this even if faced with evidence to the contrary because the current tactics used to maintain the status quo are to pretend it's good actually

I also have faith that most Australians, of every background, are tolerant and even pleasant toward the next person.

Again this is dressing politeness up as proof of goodness.

You however come across as the bad = majority and you give the impression you are bitter about most things and believe that most are not tolerant and harbor hate towards others.

Again the nation is still racist regardless of how individuals feel themselves. We still have racist laws, we still don't have treaty, we still have a white centered culture including all the power structures

But like I said you'd pretend that stuff didn't exist even if you were being punched in the face by it.

 

[Spieldory]

Again the nation is still racist regardless of how individuals feel themselves. We still have racist laws, we still don't have treaty, we still have a white centered culture including all the power structures

As a white Christian conservative(deemed racist), I take no objection to this view.

 

[Gough]

As a white Christian conservative(deemed racist), I take no objection to this view.

Jesus Christ was a woke Jew.

 

[Chief]

The campaign to sink the Voice has instructed volunteers to use fear and doubt rather than facts to trump arguments used by the Yes camp.

In an online training session, the national campaigning chief for leading No activist group Advance, Chris Inglis, detailed the anti-Voice movement’s core strategy of playing on voters’ emotions.
Inglis instructed volunteers not to identify themselves upfront as No campaigners as they make hundreds of thousands of calls to persuadable voters, but instead to raise reports of financial compensation to Indigenous Australians if the Voice referendum were to succeed.

“When reason and emotion collide, emotion always wins. Always wins,” he said as he displayed the same quote from US psychology professor Drew Westen, author of The Political Brain.

Not that it wasn't obvious.

Paywalled: No campaign’s ‘fear, doubt’ strategy revealed

 

[Chief]

As a white Christian conservative(deemed racist), I take no objection to this view.

Narrator: Minutes later he posted one of the most intentionally racist remarks seen in the thread. The post was deleted and he was banned.

 

[MP_]

Yeah, I'm not sure why there's so much fear or that the No voters think they're going to lose anything at all. I get why Warren Mundine is against it, he's going to lose his valuable Govt appointed jobs being the Govt-appointed un-democratic Voice. And I get why racists are against it. But I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone else is worried at all, just pop down and write Yes.

As a non-indigenous person, I think the Voice will have zero discernible impact on me, but will be very positive for indigenous people (that's what they've said and why they developed it), which will have an overall benefit to Australia.

It's probably the least consequential vote for me, in my lifetime, but far more important for a group of people who have lower life expectancy and lower quality of life because of a constitution thrust upon them against their will on their own land which has never even tried to fit their culture.

So well said, I’m finding a lot of people voting no are simply entitled and lack compassion doesn’t make them racist just shows they care more about themselves than others and that is becoming a very common trait in people today. To me it’s a very simple yes , I’m not concerned about the unanswered questions the No side are pushing , I’m not concerned about any of it all .

 

[Saint]

So well said, I’m finding a lot of people voting no are simply entitled and lack compassion doesn’t make them racist just shows they care more about themselves than others and that is becoming a very common trait in people today. To me it’s a very simple yes , I’m not concerned about the unanswered questions the No side are pushing , I’m not concerned about any of it all .

What the No vote campaign and there support has taught me most is that very few people understand the constitution. And the most Vocal lines in the No campaign are preying on that lack of understanding.

But what's the saying: "Nobody ever went broke because they under-estimated the intelligence of the masses"

 

[Saint]

Not that it wasn't obvious.

Paywalled: No campaign’s ‘fear, doubt’ strategy revealed

Geez I could have some fun with that task.

"Hey Saint, ring these people and try to scare them about the Voice"

"Did you know that the Voice could come into your house in the middle of the night and steal your children......they could be out there right now, quick go check under the bed for Voices, I'll wait"

I'm guessing that once they cotton-on to the fact they're speaking to a receptive racist, you could get all Borat on them:

"Yeah, I agree, instead of giving them a Voice we should just throw them down a well, starting with that Albanese fella, did you know he's 1/5th indigenous."

 

[Gralin]

How Marcia Langton has been treated in the media this week and by Dutton is just another example of the issues with both the media and the no campaign





The article itself explains that the recording of her speech shows its very clear that she was talking about the no campaigns actions not the voters themselves

but even the SMH has to write the headline in a way that allows people to think its a he said she said situation, so not fully reading the article leaves it open to interpretation that Marcia said it, not that the Australian and Dutton and others lied about it

 

[Gralin]

and this is one of the problems with news content for clicks

the journalist could write the article perfectly and reasonably and the editor will put the most inflammatory headline possible on it to generate more traffic for ad revenue

 

[augie]

I find it astounding that this referendum is almost certain to go down in flames. Such a simple step, with no identifiable downside. But still, run a bit of fear, spread some false information, and you can defeat it. The world already views us as a bit of a racist backwater. We're not helping ourselves here.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

It really seems like there are no depths Dutton and the No campaign won't stoop to.

Marcia Langton denies criticising no voters, and says media is targeting her

Prominent Indigenous leader says she believes most Australians aren’t racist, but said the no campaign was using ‘racist tactics’

www.theguardian.com

I'm not sure how people can stomach aligning with a campaign of lies, smears and sly racism.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

and this is one of the problems with news content for clicks

the journalist could write the article perfectly and reasonably and the editor will put the most inflammatory headline possible on it to generate more traffic for ad revenue

I hope Professor Langton sues the **** out of News/The Australian.

People have been rolled by the courts in defamation proceedings for far less.

 

[Sun Ra]

I hope Professor Langton sues the * out of News/The Australian.

People have been rolled by the courts in defamation proceedings for far less.

She should sue Dutton as well.

 

[Gethelred]

Wow where did that come from?

The same alt, using another account.

 

[Roby]

Pity you have such a pessimistic view of our country, sure there are racists aholes in every sphere, but I confidently say I don't believe that is for most of our citizens.

I hope you find some sort of reason to like our country and our people in it, not gonna hold my breath though.

I'm not disputing that some laws and some of the white supremacy cultures exist, or that some of the media is racist and discriminatory, I just don't believe it's popular among the majority of our population.

I also have faith that most Australians, of every background, are tolerant and even pleasant toward the next person.

You however come across as the bad = majority and you give the impression you are bitter about most things and believe that most are not tolerant and harbor hate towards others.

Such a shame.

I'll end my discussion with you here, I'll kindly ask you do the same.

That's not what I see in everyday life.

I see a lot of racism in this country.

People that act like the nicest people in public, sprout some of the most racist shit behind closed doors.

Of course you may think, what's the big deal, a few jokes and views behind closed doors is not going to hurt anyone; you couldn't be more wrong.

These are employers, decision makers, government officials, etc.. they have profound impact on society, particularly Aboriginals and Indigenous Australians.

 

[Gralin]

Like even the guardian does it.