News Review into racism at Collingwood

[regpies]

Utterly embarrassing from Eddie, he’s clearly lost his mind and should go if he thinks that’s the language you should use to respond to a report like that. He has wanted to be everywhere trying to take on way too much and has become gaff prone, I’m wondering if he’s got Dementia or Alzheimer’s.

Proud? he should’ve said we are not proud of what’s in the report. He’s a presenter/host, which is basically an actor, how hard is it to be contrite and portray the right tone and be sombre.

Instead he comes out with his ridiculous attempt to be upbeat and how this is a great day.

You’d have to be a genuine cracker to say the kind of stuff he did today. Only a clueless racist who has no idea what’s going on would think saying it’s a proud day is a good idea.

 

[domus]

Utterly embarrassing from Eddie, he’s clearly lost his mind and should go if he thinks that’s the language you should use to respond to a report like that. He has wanted to be everywhere trying to take on way too much and has become gaff prone, I’m wondering if he’s got Dementia or Alzheimer’s.

Proud? he should’ve said we are not proud of what’s in the report. He’s a presenter/host, which is basically an actor, how hard is it to be contrite and portray the right tone and be sombre.

Instead he comes out with his ridiculous attempt to be upbeat and how this is a great day.

You’d have to be a genuine cracker to say the kind of stuff he did today. Only a clueless racist who has no idea what’s going on would think saying it’s a proud day is a good idea.

Don't people ever get tired of accusing others of racism? The word has lost all meaning. It is truly ridiculous. Collingwood have regularly visited Indigenous communities up north where the players mix in with the kids and local people.
That clearly is a racist stunt that only a racist club would think up in order to camouflage their underlying racism.

 

[sr36]

Am I the only one who's got reservations about this report?
It's extremely short on specifics, listing only a handful of historical episodes, some of which are about fan behaviour, which is pretty hard to blame the club for in any case. It makes no attempt to quantify or list instances of the sort of behaviour within the club that is assessed to have been racist over a relevant timeframe. I think the report's failure to do that is worrying. It leaves the reader unsure how big/widespread the problem actually is.
Similarly, there is no substantiation for generalised statements about the culture -- eg. that when complaints are made they are not dealt with properly, or that if they are dealt with it's only for media management.
If I'm writing a report that talks about "systemic" behaviour I will make damn sure to justify my use of that language by giving numbers, categories or timeframes, and in fact examples of the types of incidents that are ongoing, so the size of the problem and the nature of the behaviours can be properly understood.
Based on what is actually in this report it would seem most accurate to conclude that Collingwood used to have a problem with racism, but in recent years has largely left that behind by undertaking a number of initiatives to reach out to indigenous communities, with positive effect. I don't see that the little detail contained in it justifies the trope that Collingwood is a racist club now, let alone the sensationalist media reporting (and social media commentary) that is certain to flow from the release of the report.
Given these reservations it also seems hard to justify the highly bureaucratic response that the report calls for. Yes, policies should be up to date and there should be an implementation plan and monitoring; but the report proposes an elaborate matrix of measures that doesn't seem required to deal with a problem that hasn't been properly set out.

I thought the club " is inherently racist" was an outrageous conclusion considering what was in the report. In the other conclusions of the club's recent behaviour, they concluded that the clubs negative behaviour concerning race was motivated to protect the image of the brand. Its perfectly reasonable to conclude that this was shit house behaviour - a practice that was racially damaging. But that's different to a conclusion of inherently racist. They're using present tense to make a clear statement that the clubs actions are currently motivated by racial prejudice, despite the fact that they had previously stated that the club was motivated by a completely different factor.

 

[jackcass]

Ed actually had the gall to deny that was a reference to him.

And do you know it was him?

 

[Markfs]

The arrest of Andrew Okeefe for allegedly assaulting his partner is just another example of the way so many people who lead the charge in wanting to brand other men guilty of misogyny and women beating get exposed as being the very thing they claim to despise. The former chairman of white ribbon and man bashing hypocrite has a lot of explaining to do.

Climate change zealots who attack the common man while flying all over the world in their private jet are also ubiquitous.

Those who constantly accuse others of racism and are forever focusing on the skin colour of others arouse suspicion with their regular rants and denunciations of others.

Me think they do protest too much.

So those issues arent important because some of the people advocating for them aren't beyond reproach - so men don't bash women, the climate isn't changing and racial prejudice is not a problem?

 

[Markfs]

I thought the club " is inherently racist" was an outrageous conclusion considering what was in the report. In the other conclusions of the club's recent behaviour, they concluded that the clubs negative behaviour concerning race was motivated to protect the image of the brand. Its perfectly reasonable to conclude that this was sh*t house behaviour - a practice that was racially damaging. But that's different to a conclusion of inherently racist. They're using present tense to make a clear statement that the clubs actions are motivated by racial prejudice, despite the fact that they had previously stated that the club was motivated by a completely different factor.

i'd be happier if people protected brands by being honest. Eddie was excruciatingly wrong today. It was hard to watch. I was embarrassed for him. If he acts that way in public after all that has happened with the club, I find it easy to believe that or every complaint from an indigenous player, he just spun a story...patted them on the back. He's obviously been surrounded by people who have never told him that he's full of shit when he's talking as he did today. It's like he has lost his ability to see himself from another's perspective.... like he has gone back to being a 5 year old in that respect.

 

[sr36]

i'd be happier if people protected brands by being honest. Eddie was excruciatingly wrong today. It was hard to watch. I was embarrassed for him. If he acts that way in public after all that has happened with the club, I find it easy to believe that or every complaint from an indigenous player, he just spun a story...patted them on the back. He's obviously been surrounded by people who have never told him that he's full of sh*t when he's talking as he did today. It's like he has lost his ability to see himself from another's perspective.... like he has gone back to being a 5 year old in that respect.

I havent' seen the press conference yet. Will watch soonish.

 

[Horaceg]

That's just wrong. They both spoke well. Sizer was extremely impressive.

She was a seemed genuinely proud of the journey but was also understanding there is work needed

 

[35Daicos]

So those issues arent important because some of the people advocating for them aren't beyond reproach - so men don't bash women, the climate isn't changing and racial prejudice is not a problem?

Sorry if I'm intruding, but isn't it meant to be obvious that the post you are referring to was intended to be sarcasm?! Given the nature of (most of) your posts I found it a bit odd that you would have an issue with it!!

 

[Markfs]

Sorry if I'm intruding, but isn't it meant to be obvious that the post you are referring to was intended to be sarcasm?! Given the nature of (most of) your posts I found it a bit odd that you would have an issue with it!!

i'm didnt realise you followed my work so closely. Have you done the same with domus? He does like to give a sky news interpretation of the lefties issues.....I was merely pointing out that shooting the messenger doesnt kill the issue. I'm sure that domus will be chuffed that you have been so chivalrous.

 

[jmac70]

That's just wrong. They both spoke well. Sizer was extremely impressive.

I agree they spoke well, but standing next to a man who describes yesterday as a "proud day" can't be good for your reputation.

 

[jmac70]

I’m proud the club has undertaken the review. Doesn’t alter the past but it’s a step in the right direction.

But do you agree it was a "proud day?"

 

[jmac70]

And do you know it was him?

Who else could it be?

 

[AndrewShawble]

Just ignore all they’ve been doing over recent years then.

Just ignore the report based off 30 club and linked parties being interviewed.

“there is a gap between what the Collingwood Football Club says it stands for and what it does”.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

Chris, I named you and Dave because I thought you were both piling onto Eddie and were being irrational. You're perfectly entitled to pen your opinions here, but don't expect me to accept what you say without comment.

If the press conference started with "firstly, we would like to apologize to the people who have been mistreated under my leadership", instead of "what a proud day it is" this whole story would've gone down with a much nicer aftertaste.

The contrast in these responses. Apples that’s why I’m piling onto Eddie..... he foooked up from the very first sentence.

 

[Doc1763]

Now Ed is not a decent human being? Far out get a grip

The man is a disgrace, he should go now, for the good of the Club.

 

[Scodog10]

I'm embarrassed by our President, but not the Club.

Like anything, this has been beaten into a media storm - and sounds far, far more menacing than what it actually is. Granted there are of course serious elements that need to be addressed top down, the 'seen to be doing the right thing, as opposed to actually doing the right thing' really rang true.

There are questions around practices and responses when there's been deemed to be racism present, but its not an inherently racist, vile, unwelcoming place to be.

Couldn’t agree more the only thing to come out of yesterday for me was confirmation that Eddie McGuire is a racist* Everything else was, for better or worse, pretty much known. Having it shoved down our throats like that was a bitter pill to swallow, but as TRS put it we can now confirm water is wet.

*you cannot use the words proud or pride in that context yesterday without being a racist. If he hadn’t previously made the comments towards Goodes I could maybe maybe fob them off as yet another gaffe, but he has form. For anyone in doubt read the structural racism definition on page 14 of the report paying particular attention to representation in the media. We have a powerful white man stating emphatically that he’s proud of a systemically racist organisation he’s lead for 20+ years...

 

[mwhop]

Apart from having an inadequate structure for dealing with complaints, it's hard to pinpoint exactly what Collingwood is guilty of. The salacious remarks are the opinions of the report's authors and the verified facts mostly already in the public domain. Not even an allegation of "casual racism" to be found.

Bit surprised at the number of people prepared to turn on their club at the insistence of a media vibe. I guess when the team falls short of expectations and supporters tire of the same old, they're more ready to accept such criticism. A kick the other way in 2018 and McGuire's legacy looks very different.

McGuire performed poorly at the presser, but he has an awkward history and the 'r' allegation is so damaging for people with a public profile. He was rushed and probably nervous. Yeah he can be a brazen hypocrite but I struggle to believe he fostered a racist culture with his day-to-day presence at the club.

Reviewing the complaints procedures was basically the Terms of reference for the review. It was not a trial of whether pies were "guilty" of racist acts. The report did what it was commissioned to do, no more no less. I agree that the report was not an investigation and it did not reveal new facts. This report is more like an expert opinion on known facts. In that sense some reactions are surprising or sensational in suggesting that new information has come to light.

In practice, we are really talking about the way that every time something racist happened (eg eddie and goodes, heretier etc) the club did not know how to deal with it (and should have had adequate training and policies in place), and according to the report (and to the naked eye), made it worse by trying to sweep it under the rug and protect the image/ "brand" of the club. Alas, it is totally true, we all knew this was the case and it was clear even to the casual observer.

The new information is that now, even when presented with this criticism explicitly, eddie still doesnt seem to get his head around it. He hasnt seemed to learn from from all these incidents that it his lack of accountability itself that has made people feel marginalised within the club. It is personal, because it was his personal acts and omissions in the role of president. People understand that he isnt some deeply committed racist, but it is striking how he doesnt seem to recognise the problem clearly, by still trying to put on media spin. The fact that he resigned at the same time as reading the report, and again tried to deny this link just looks like another incident of the same. I think eddies reaction is the new information that is quite noxious to many people.

 

[cityslick1]

Yeah, lets give him another 23 years. Do you think that will be enough??

Great, another black Mark against the club’s name in its history, due more to his response than the actual findings.
This is why people are forced to resign. It will only grow legs now, follow us for the rest of his tenure, and be a big distraction to the playing group, fans, and media.

This guy does not speak for me

 

[gouki88]

I hope you don’t mind me intruding.

This is from an article on the ABC website (about Lumumba being called “chimp” during his time at Collingwood):

Lumumba's experiences have been corroborated by six of his teammates. Andrew Krakouer, Leon Davis, Chris Dawes, Chris Egan, Brent Macaffer and Shae McNamara have all registered public support. Others look on in silence.

"They bit their tongue and that's what they have to live with for the rest of their life," McNamara told Seven News in June.

Thought as much. Couldn't quite remember the others (especially guys like Egan and McNamara - brain doesn't process them as Pies players), but knew it wasn't just H.

 

[Ron The Bear]

In practice, we are really talking about the way that every time something racist happened (eg eddie and goodes, heretier etc) the club did not know how to deal with it (and should have had adequate training and policies in place), and according to the report (and to the naked eye), made it worse by trying to sweep it under the rug and protect the image/ "brand" of the club. Alas, it is totally true, we all knew this was the case and it was clear even to the casual observer.

How should the club have handled e.g. the incident with the 13yo girl differently?

McGuire escaping censure over the Goodes gaffe by the AFL or the radio station comes back to those organisations. I can't recall any other racism issues involving McGuire except perhaps the Krakouer one where McGuire got upset at some taunting about Krakouer being an ex-con ("borderline racism").

Have the facts re Lumumba been ascertained? Some players (minority?) referred to him as 'Chimp'. When did it start, and how long before Lumumba spoke against it? Did it cease as soon as Lumumba raised the issue (self-regulation)?

 

[Spuddd]

Eddie's lost it - stick to radio and game shows.

You can't call this a proud day for Collingwood.

Yes, they were in a lose/lose situation - they come out as they did yesterday and people will ask why it took so long or they keep it in house and people say we're trying to hide something.

I'm not calling for Ed to be removed instantly, rather than ride out the year. I think that will put the club in more disarray. What needs to happen though is someone on the board needs to stand up to Eddie and basically tell him to shut up, let the new regime do the talking for the betterment of the club. If this doesn't happen, then the current board need to leave along with Ed, in my eyes, they are spineless and just collecting a paycheck from our club.

I love Ed, he's done some amazing things for our club over the past 20+ years, things that others probably could never have done. But he hasn't grown with the times, like the vast majority of Australians have, even more so within the footballing world.

He's past his use-by date, enjoy the year long retirement party, shut up and don't de-rail the club before the season starts & who knows, with a perfect mix, he may even be able to go out on top.

 

[JB1975]

Random thoughts.

Eddie is a decent bloke. Needs to be held to account, occasionally deserves contempt, but not vitriol.

His decision to resign was the right one. His decision to hold on for a lap of honour, to appoint himself an agent of change in his last days on the throne, is appalling. The future belongs to others, but even in resignation he's found a way to be utterly self-serving.

People are right to say that our club is a good one. We have problems, but there's nothing sinister about our organisation. And yet the club has found itself in this position, tarred as a symbol of all that is wrong with Australia's relations with Indigenous people and --as unfair as it might seem-- the tenure of Ed has led us to here.

People are right to say that we've improved, that we've done good things, but here we are. What good is this work if it becomes overshadowed by our failings?

Plenty of good posters say that Ed should hold on until the end of the year, that it'd be imprudent and unnecessary to head off now, and Stockholm Syndrome comes to mind.

Alongside Ed's incompetence yesterday I saw good people who deserve a chance to work in a clearer environment, and a chance to help the club tell a different story. The club will not fall apart when Ed steps down, whether it's today or in 10 months.

Collingwood is a great club, with a better story to tell, but now it needs other people to speak more than ever.

 

[JB1975]

I've always got time for Jake Niall's view of things.

It was anything but a proud day for Collingwood, Eddie

Collingwood’s day of racial reckoning was really meant to be about contrition, not “pride” as a defensive Eddie McGuire claimed.

www.theage.com.au

Collingwood was making a confession, and, from his words and defensive posture at the media conference, it was as though McGuire wanted immediate absolution - for everyone to congratulate him and the club he’s led for 22 years - simply for admitting to failures and committing to “Do Better,” as the report was titled.

The media conference, thus, quickly took on a combative and defensive tone, as McGuire was peppered with questions about his own accountability, to which he responded with characteristic bravado.

No, he would not step down now a year before his scheduled exit. No, he was not humbled by the report.

Remarkably, he did not even acknowledge that, when the report singled out the culture of individuals “having an unhealthy degree of influence over club culture” that this was likely pointing to the president. If not him, then who was it referencing?

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Sigh, I miss the days when footy was about who won, who kicked the most goals etc etc.