News Review into racism at Collingwood

[HeathySure]

After just reading through the whole thread i just want to point out that Hertier had nothing to do with the review, so that the recommendations came from other sources.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Isnt Ugle Hagen indigenous?

Yes he is, I've just become accustomed to my club having zero indigenous players for some time combined with not having seen him in action yet so hadn't registered, my bad. I'm worried about my his long-term prospects because I think there might be something wrong at my club too. Peace folks, I'm out.

 

[76woodenspooners]

We have a well respected and educated consultant do a report. But now we need another consultant to work out the specifics.

For example, the membership.....

"3. That the Collingwood Football Club Board undertake a Board audit to ensure its membership, through their behaviour and beliefs, reflects its goals of diversity and individually embrace the values of the Club, including the principles of anti-racism and inclusion.

I think we all know that parts of the membership are actively racist. Is the report recommending that the club surveys members and excludes those that dont meet a certain standard? And understanding that people will lie to gain a membership, do we encourage a culture of identification of members who are clearly racist so that they are excluded from membership?

This particular recommendation is a bit fraught. it implies that the membership are in some way accountable to the board, when in reality the opposite is true.

Of course the board can provide leadership on social matters like this. We saw that happen with SSM and the board / club taking a strong “yes” position. We saw that happen with the club’s entry into female sports.

Is there another way to do this? Requirement that all members attend an educational program?

IMO the right way to go about this is for the board to seek a mandate from the membership (a vote) to update the club’s articles of association to ...

(1) Discriminatory behaviour in all its forms to be specifically called out as unacceptable behaviour by members

(2) The club to embrace inclusion.

(3) The club to embrace diversity in all its forms as a source of competitive advantage.

... or something along those lines.

 

[domus]

Don't worry, we're currently the only club that has zero indigenous players (and has had for at least a few years now) so as troubling as today's news would be for you folk they can't accuse you of being where my club is on this topic.

Do you seriously think this is based upon an underlying culture of racism at the Bulldogs or just the way your recruiting has panned out?
I noticed Collingwood don't have many redheads or players under 170cm. I think they are clearly bigots when it comes to these two overlooked demographics.

 

[Markfs]

This particular recommendation is a bit fraught. it implies that the membership are in some way accountable to the board, when in reslity the opposite is true.

Of course the board can provide leadership on social matters like this. We saw that happen with SSM and the board / club taking a string “yes” position. We saw that happen with the club’s entry into female sports.



IMO the right way to go about this is for the board to seek a mandate from the membership (a vote) to update the club’s articles of association to ...

(1) Discriminatory behaviour in all its forms to be specifically called out as unacceptable behaviour by members

(2) The club to embrace inclusion.

(3) The club to embrace diversity in all its forms as a source of competitive advantage.

... or something along those lines.

this is from the hawthorn site


As a member of the Hawthorn Football Club:

I will refrain from engaging in harassing, intimidating, disruptive and/or violent behaviour inclusive of foul and abusive language or offensive gestures

I will not engage in or endorse any form of vilification based on

• Race;
• Gender;
• Religion;
• Sexual preference, orientation or identity
• Ethnicity;
• Personal circumstance;
• Disability; or
• Age;

I will comply with the terms and conditions of entry at all AFL venues, club matches and club events and conduct myself in a manner that does not damage (or have the potential to damage) the reputation of the Hawthorn Football Club.

I will not engage in conduct that could bring the Hawthorn Football Club or the game of Australian Rules Football into disrepute.

Across all forms of media including social media or general media, I will not engage in conduct that could result in bringing Hawthorn Football Club or the game of Australian Rules Football into disrepute

The Hawthorn Football Club works closely with the AFL and its venues to identify and act upon anti-social behaviour in accordance with the AFL’s National Vilification and Discrimination Policy andMember Protection Policy.

The Hawthorn Football Club appreciates your support of the Member Code of Conduct and encourages everyone to call-out anti-social behaviour by reporting offences via the most appropriate channel.

 

[davywap]

Eddie needs to go, as that press conference was a disaster. Talk about failing to read the room and the wider community.

When he took on the job we were a basket case and his initial years were strong. It started to go pear shaped with the Caroline Wilson and Adam Goodes incidents, and now we find ourselves in a situation where he refuses to say the word 'sorry' in a one hour press conference in the face of a report that found 'systemic racism' inherent within our footy club. Eddie tries to spin it to a 'proud' day for CFC. It has occurred under his watch.

Time for Eddie to walk away.

Seems to have occurred under many watches before Eddie's, hence the word "systemic"

 

[Off Tap]

Don't worry, we're currently the only club that has zero indigenous players (and has had for at least a few years now) so as troubling as today's news would be for you folk they can't accuse you of being where my club is on this topic.

Do you seriously think this is based upon an underlying culture of racism at the Bulldogs or just the way your recruiting has panned out?

Sometimes that's just how list compositions come about. It's rare but it does happen.

WCE went through a similar period for a couple of years just before or after we had Wirra on our list. There was a newspaper article highlighting the fact that WCE had no indigenous players.

It wasn't because we specifically decided not to draft them. It came about because there were no suitable players who we could draft with the picks we had available.

 

[Kappa]

If the words “I’m sorry” do not come out from Eddies mouth. I’m done.

If the press conference started with "firstly, we would like to apologize to the people who have been mistreated under my leadership", instead of "what a proud day it is" this whole story would've gone down with a much nicer aftertaste.

 

[davywap]

Page 26

the Club should consider a reparative justice model, where the goal is not bringing an end to public declarations of racism or exonerating the Club of it, but airing it, acknowledging it and making material gestures to righting and healing the harm that occurred. This includes proactively making amends that could include, but aren’t limited to: reparations, compensation, public apology, and commitments to reform.

There should be nowhere to hide for the troglodytes that have brought us to this point – I cant see how any of the current Board can remain. McGuire, if he were a decent human being, should have resigned today, or at the AGM at the latest.

Now Ed is not a decent human being? Far out get a grip

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Do you seriously think this is based upon an underlying culture of racism at the Bulldogs or just the way your recruiting has panned out?
I noticed Collingwood don't have many redheads or players under 170cm. I think they are clearly bigots when it comes to these two overlooked demographics.

I don't have an insight to the internal workings at the Bulldogs, but it isn't just drafting - we've tried to trade in multiple indigenous free agents in recent years and all have ended up at other clubs for one reason or another (two I can think of instantly both chose Hawthorn, who have many indigenous players, instead of my club, who at the time had none).

Was it wrong of me to be concerned that my club was the only club for multiple years to have zero indigenous players?

To be clear, I wasn't posting my club's situation because I consider it a "cause and effect" scenario. I was just trying to empathise with a poster in this thread who gave stats about Collingwood's overall number of indigenous players in recent years.

 

[davywap]

The authors also make me skeptical. Both of them are academics with a preconceived worldview where everything is seen through a racial lens. The outcome of the report was only going to lead to one conclusion once I saw their credentials.

Why are they?

 

[davywap]

______________________________________________________________


Don't hold your breath.


Hmm ... " ... if he were a decent human being ..."

Hmmmm.... Ed and the Pies have made someone salty.....

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

We have a well respected and educated consultant do a report. But now we need another consultant to work out the specifics.

For example, the membership.....

"3. That the Collingwood Football Club Board undertake a Board audit to ensure its membership, through their behaviour and beliefs, reflects its goals of diversity and individually embrace the values of the Club, including the principles of anti-racism and inclusion.

I think we all know that parts of the membership are actively racist. Is the report recommending that the club surveys members and excludes those that dont meet a certain standard? And understanding that people will lie to gain a membership, do we encourage a culture of identification of members who are clearly racist so that they are excluded from membership?

Is there another way to do this? Requirement that all members attend an educational program?

"Inclusion" and "Diversity" are empty buzzwords used by all companies and organisations these days.

So now we're going to vet members/supporters, and coerce them to attend an educational program? The world has lost its mind.

 

[ZEV]

Sometimes that's just how list compositions come about. It's rare but it does happen.

WCE went through a similar period for a couple of years just before or after we had Wirra on our list. There was a newspaper article highlighting the fact that WCE had no indigenous players.

It wasn't because we specifically decided not to draft them. It came about because there were no suitable players who we could draft with the picks we had available.

IIRC the year before Wirra was drafted Chris Lewis and Peter Matera were still going around, when Wirra retired I'm pretty sure Lewis Broome and Jarrad Oakley Nicholls were playing at WC?

 

[Off Tap]

IIRC the year before Wirra was drafted Chris Lewis and Peter Matera were still going around, when Wirra retired I'm pretty sure Lewis Broome and Jarrad Oakley Nicholls were playing at WC?

It must've been the year after Wirra left as we drafted him in 1995.

 

[Linda_Lovelace]

Harry going to get a big cheque.

 

[Apples]

His attempt to spin this also hurt then reputations of Sizer and Anderson.

That's just wrong. They both spoke well. Sizer was extremely impressive.

 

[Apples]

“Proud” & “racism” should never be uttered in the same sentence. End of the day you want to be an Eddie lover go ahead.

However, Eddie has been the Center figure for AFL & racism over the last decade.

He should not be a president.

Funny you mention Dan Andrew’s, a lot of people asked for his head post 1st muck up. He did better on his 2nd go.

How many tries has the 22 year reigning president get? Let me guess, a million “cOZ hE HElPeD uS wHeN wE wERE A sTRuGglIng club” in the 90’s.

It’s 2021 move with the times.... or am I not allowed to have an opinion that goes against our lord and saviour Eddie McGuire?

Chris, I named you and Dave because I thought you were both piling onto Eddie and were being irrational. You're perfectly entitled to pen your opinions here, but don't expect me to accept what you say without comment.

 

[wcv1475]

Where did you read that?

Someone quoted an ABC news article on the main board this is article not sure i am allowed to link it but here it is https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06...gwood-racism-claims-heritier-lumumba/12351966

 

[wcv1475]

Yet Mick got torn to shreds over his racist attitude to Robbie Muir 's story a few months ago. This racism thing is so confusing.

Yeah that news story was about the Mad Dog nickname more than anything

 

[Apples]

I hope you don’t mind me intruding.

This is from an article on the ABC website (about Lumumba being called “chimp” during his time at Collingwood):

Lumumba's experiences have been corroborated by six of his teammates. Andrew Krakouer, Leon Davis, Chris Dawes, Chris Egan, Brent Macaffer and Shae McNamara have all registered public support. Others look on in silence.

"They bit their tongue and that's what they have to live with for the rest of their life," McNamara told Seven News in June.

I suspect they, like most of us, will have regrets in their lives. They didn't see a murder and stay silent. They stayed silent when some in the club allegedly called LM 'Chimp'. They will look back and wish they had stepped forward and done the right thing. To suggest that they will feel shame for the rest of their lives is overstating things a tad.

We've had plenty of Aboriginal players since 2010. Has anybody asked them if they felt great shame today? Travis Varcoe and Daniel Wells both had fine careers at other clubs, but had no hesitation in coming to Collingwood. If we were a well known club of racists, that would not have happened.

No doubt the media will chase down any First Nations players from our recent past and try for a racy headline, but as far as I know, as of now, none of those players has made statements about the players or the Club in the context of racism.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I've witnessed some appalling instances of racism as a supporter. The Winmar/Robert Muir incidents at Vic Park will never be forgotten. That has been acknowledged. That was in the past. Plenty of other Clubs have had to deal with racists comments on and off the field.

The really crucial thing is that the Club ordered a review and copped it sweet today. They will move forward, accepting all recommendations. We should be hopeful that the Club will be the better for this report. That's a good thing.

Am I ashamed of my Club? Definitely not. Should we do things differently going forward? Definitely.

Let's all calm down.

 

[jackcass]

They’ve had years to work on it, if it’s taken this report to start working on it then they ain’t the people fit to be working on it.

Simple as that.

Just ignore all they’ve been doing over recent years then.

 

[jackcass]

They had an opportunity to tell us today. I didn't hear most of the presser. Did they not explain what they are doing?

Hard to know, questions were difficult to hear but most were about H from what I could gather.

 

[jackcass]

Do you agree with Ed that this is a “proud day?”

I’m proud the club has undertaken the review. Doesn’t alter the past but it’s a step in the right direction.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

I suspect they, like most of us, will have regrets in their lives. They didn't see a murder and stay silent. They stayed silent when some in the club allegedly called LM 'Chimp'. They will look back and wish they had stepped forward and done the right thing. To suggest that they will feel shame for the rest of their lives is overstating things a tad.

We've had plenty of Aboriginal players since 2010. Has anybody asked them if they felt great shame today? Travis Varcoe and Daniel Wells both had fine careers at other clubs, but had no hesitation in coming to Collingwood. If we were a well known club of racists, that would not have happened.

No doubt the media will chase down any First Nations players from our recent past and try for a racy headline, but as far as I know, as of now, none of those players has made statements about the players or the Club in the context of racism.

As I stated earlier in this thread, I've witnessed some appalling instances of racism as a supporter. The Winmar/Robert Muir incidents at Vic Park will never be forgotten. That has been acknowledged. That was in the past. Plenty of other Clubs have had to deal with racists comments on and off the field.

The really crucial thing is that the Club ordered a review and copped it sweet today. They will move forward, accepting all recommendations. We should be hopeful that the Club will be the better for this report. That's a good thing.

Am I ashamed of my Club? Definitely not. Should we do things differently going forward? Definitely.

Let's all calm down.

I'm embarrassed by our President, but not the Club.

Like anything, this has been beaten into a media storm - and sounds far, far more menacing than what it actually is. Granted there are of course serious elements that need to be addressed top down, the 'seen to be doing the right thing, as opposed to actually doing the right thing' really rang true.

There are questions around practices and responses when there's been deemed to be racism present, but its not an inherently racist, vile, unwelcoming place to be.