List Mgmt. Rioli to Port Discussion

[HoneyBadger35]

Forgive the intrusion everyone, I come in peace.

 

[MrWoollie]

Am I the only one hoping the deal doesn't get done and JHF, Port and North are all embarrassed by it?

I want the deal done, but at such a price that it makes the Kelly deal look cheap, ruins Ports draft hand for years and then the player turns out to be a spud (unlikely, but I can dream).

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I thought North would shoot down any talk of trading JHF immediately but they haven't. They haven't even started leaking a summary of what they want for him to the media like clubs usually do in these situations. Usually at the beginning of negotiations where the seller is reluctant but not outright opposed they try and put a floor underneath the trading price via the media as in saying "this is the minimum you have to offer for us to even have a discussion with you". But they haven't done that either. That club is in such chaos it is hard to get any read on it at all.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Quote from head of footy at Port speaking in reference to the Rioli trade.

“The Amon compensation is one of the selections that we’ve got to use for all of the deals that we might have throughout this period. It’s very hard to commit something straight away up front when you’ve got multiple things on the table.”

Sounds like they are saying in soft and coded way that they won't even offer us the Amon compo at this stage and that the Rioli trade is at the back of the queue in terms of importance to them and therefore we will have to wait until all of the other deals they are trying to do have either been done or have collapsed and then just see what is left for them to offer us.

What would Rioli and Port think the chances of him getting to Port via the PSD are? Kind of depends of how realistic the contract that Port are offering him is. If the rest of the AFL thinks it is fair value then one of the other clubs with a pick before Port might take him first. I would think that Rioli would be pissed if Port told him to go PSD. It would probably damage Port's reputation too and ability to get other players in the future to put their hand up to go there if the club might leave you marooned and forced into the PSD after getting you to put your hand up to go there. But it looks like the people in charge are kean to roll the dice on everything at the moment.

 

[MrWoollie]

Quote from head of footy at Port speaking in reference to the Rioli trade.

“The Amon compensation is one of the selections that we’ve got to use for all of the deals that we might have throughout this period. It’s very hard to commit something straight away up front when you’ve got multiple things on the table.”

Sounds like they are saying in soft and coded way that they won't even offer us the Amon compo at this stage and that the Rioli trade is at the back of the queue in terms of importance to them and therefore we will have to wait until all of the other deals they are trying to do have either been done or have collapsed and then just see what is left for them to offer us.

What would Rioli and Port think the chances of him getting to Port via the PSD are? Kind of depends of how realistic the contract that Port are offering him is. If the rest of the AFL thinks it is fair value then one of the other clubs with a pick before Port might take him first. I would think that Rioli would be pissed if Port told him to go PSD. It would probably damage Port's reputation too and ability to get other players in the future to put their hand up to go there if the club might leave you marooned and forced into the PSD after getting you to put your hand up to go there. But it looks like the people in charge are kean to roll the dice on everything at the moment.

Basically if they offer us anything less than a R2 pick then they are offering us nothing we can use... i.e nothing.
Therefore, anything less than a R2 pick, let him walk. All the risk then falls on Port. They get him, we've lost nothing we could use. Someone else gets him, they lose as well.

 

[ziad]

Basically if they offer us anything less than a R2 pick then they are offering us nothing we can use... i.e nothing.
Therefore, anything less than a R2 pick, let him walk. All the risk then falls on Port. They get him, we've lost nothing we could use. Someone else gets him, they lose as well.

Port are trying to shop big without any cash. Its their problem not ours. I agree - unless the payment is of value he walks to the draft.

 

[ukurrie]

I thought North would shoot down any talk of trading JHF immediately but they haven't. They haven't even started leaking a summary of what they want for him to the media like clubs usually do in these situations. Usually at the beginning of negotiations where the seller is reluctant but not outright opposed they try and put a floor underneath the trading price via the media as in saying "this is the minimum you have to offer for us to even have a discussion with you". But they haven't done that either. That club is in such chaos it is hard to get any read on it at all.

It seems that Port and North have already been talking for a couple of weeks - at a minimum, both have known for many days that JHF would nominate for Port. Given the storyline of JHF this year, North are not surprised, nor see any benefit of keeping him an extra year, so saying they would not let him leave is not really an option.

 

[ukurrie]

Sounds like they are saying in soft and coded way that they won't even offer us the Amon compo at this stage and that the Rioli trade is at the back of the queue in terms of importance to them and therefore we will have to wait until all of the other deals they are trying to do have either been done or have collapsed and then just see what is left for them to offer us.

I think we'll be ok. All the (media) predictions of the JHF trade have not included pick 27 and, when it is thrown in, it is as some fantasy three way deal where Georgiades comes to us as well.

I can't see pick 27 being useful for North. They need established players or high probability (ie top ten) kids, not 50% chances like mid second rounders.

 

[Keys]

I think we'll be ok. All the (media) predictions of the JHF trade have not included pick 27 and, when it is thrown in, it is as some fantasy three way deal where Georgiades comes to us as well.

I can't see pick 27 being useful for North. They need established players or high probability (ie top ten) kids, not 50% chances like mid second rounders.

Fair point. If this trade goes through, North will have pick 1 and 8 in this years draft as well as theirs and Ports 1st round picks next year so are well placed to bring in some young talent

Pick 27 is a solid pick but not one that’s going to help them much in the short term. An experienced player will be of far more value to them

Convincing a best 22 player at Port to relocate to North might be a tough sell though

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

I think we'll be ok. All the (media) predictions of the JHF trade have not included pick 27 and, when it is thrown in, it is as some fantasy three way deal where Georgiades comes to us as well.

I can't see pick 27 being useful for North. They need established players or high probability (ie top ten) kids, not 50% chances like mid second rounders.

Aren't there restrictions on how many picks you can trade out? If the JHF deal goes through we will definately get seriously low balled. They might double down on trying to force a package of their fringe players on us.

I think had they know JHF would be available a month ago they never would have chased Rioli and would have kept their powder dry for the bigger deal.

Would we take Rioli back if it all falls through?

 

[shooshka]

Aren't there restrictions on how many picks you can trade out? If the JHF deal goes through we will definately get seriously low balled. They might double down on trying to force a package of their fringe players on us.

I think had they know JHF would be available a month ago they never would have chased Rioli and would have kept their powder dry for the bigger deal.

Would we take Rioli back if it all falls through?

The restriction on pick trading is for future picks - can't trade a future 1st and future 2nd (basically you can't trade any other future picks unless you bring in another in the same round if you trade your F1st... or if you hold your F1st you can trade out of any other future round).

Assuming Port lose their F1st in the JHF trade (and I see no way that they don't) all of their other picks are off the table unless they bring an extra one in.


If MG is actually keen on the move, and Port want to wrap it up in the Rioli deal and want a pick swap (upgrade) - I think maybe a swap of future 2nds might be fair. Ours should be around 20, and theirs around 30. So Rioli plus a 10 pick upgrade in the 2nd round of a 'super draft' might get it done. I'd still prefer 27 though.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

I'd honestly prefer Rioli go in the PSD and us get nothing, I don't have enormous hopes for the latter stages of his career and don't want players who don't want to be at our club taking the spots of those that are willing to work hard to push us towards our next premiership.

It'd also set a precedent for our list management team of the PSD being a more than viable option to bring in talent or negotiate better trades in the same way Adelaide has while we're likely to be wallowing at the lower levels of the ladder.

 

[ukurrie]

Would we take Rioli back if it all falls through?

I'm not a huge fan of keeping a player who doesn't want to be here - especially if we are not making finals in 2023. I can't think of a scenario where keeping him helps West Coast in the long term. The only long shot is if Junior changes his mind and (we believe genuinely) fully commits to WC.

 

[southcoast]

Just on Rioli and PSD.

Bombers, reportedly, are interested in Tippa’s comeback plans and will be in contact with him to convince him to return to them.

If he doesn’t return to Bombers then their interest in Jnr will go up a notch methinks.


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[Barrybran]

I'd accept giving pick 2, 26 and Rioli for pick 8 and Georgiades. Port then can offer pick 2 and next years first (likely pick 10+) for JHF.

Before people lose their s**t, Rioli has little value as a 27yo sitting out two years, one strike, playing an average 2022, uncontracted and on his last chance.

We'd have addressed a forward need with picks 8 and 20 left for best mids available. Hewitt and ??

If we accept that Rioli is worth pick 27 that would value Georgiades at pick 3 (per the Draft guru calculator). I won't pretend to understand draft and player values but that sounds like we'd be getting the raw end of that deal. Even dropping pick 26 out would value Georgiades at pick 7.

 

[dajesmac]

The restriction on pick trading is for future picks - can't trade a future 1st and future 2nd (basically you can't trade any other future picks unless you bring in another in the same round if you trade your F1st... or if you hold your F1st you can trade out of any other future round).

Assuming Port lose their F1st in the JHF trade (and I see no way that they don't) all of their other picks are off the table unless they bring an extra one in.


If MG is actually keen on the move, and Port want to wrap it up in the Rioli deal and want a pick swap (upgrade) - I think maybe a swap of future 2nds might be fair. Ours should be around 20, and theirs around 30. So Rioli plus a 10 pick upgrade in the 2nd round of a 'super draft' might get it done. I'd still prefer 27 though.

I’m sure you’re right, but didn’t we trade a future first and a future second for Kelly?

 

[ukurrie]

Just on Rioli and PSD.

Bombers, reportedly, are interested in Tippa’s comeback plans and will be in contact with him to convince him to return to them.

If he doesn’t return to Bombers then their interest in Jnr will go up a notch methinks.

But the whole narrative of Junior and Port is because he wants to go to Adelaide for family reasons. I have no reason not to believe but nothing would surprise me with footballers.

 

[Keys]

I’m sure you’re right, but didn’t we trade a future first and a future second for Kelly?

No

Pick 14,24,33 and our future first (12)

Got Kelly, 52 and Geelongs future 3rd (53) back

 

[Watto71]

So you spend all that time wooing Rioli, selling the club to him on the basis of how great you’ll be looking after him. Offer him a lucrative 4 year contract

Then go yeah, nah sorry mate but it’s not happening

This is after you paraded Jack Graham around Alberton in front of the media whilst knowing you were making a play for JHF, essentially forcing him to bail when he realised there was no hope of a deal getting done

Nice way to give players and their managers confidence that you can be trusted when you say you’re confident you will get a deal done in future

You do realise Port told Graham that we are chasing JHF hence he pulled the pin.
You want pick 27 plus more isn't going to happen
The fact that you believe Junior is equal to Amon who was offered more $ per season,younger and polled top for us in the brownlow.
If Junior is worth that then the AFL need to change Amons pick to 9

 

[kane249]

Just on Rioli and PSD.

Bombers, reportedly, are interested in Tippa’s comeback plans and will be in contact with him to convince him to return to them.

If he doesn’t return to Bombers then their interest in Jnr will go up a notch methinks.


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They seem keen on Alwyn Davey Jr as father/son, so they might not want Rioli

 

[WCErevival]

You do realise Port told Graham that we are chasing JHF hence he pulled the pin.
You want pick 27 plus more isn't going to happen
The fact that you believe Junior is equal to Amon who was offered more $ per season,younger and polled top for us in the brownlow.
If Junior is worth that then the AFL need to change Amons pick to 9

You cant use compo picks to measure market value. Lance Franklin went for a pick in the teens.

 

[MaxHunt]

No

Pick 14,24,33 and our future first (12)

Got Kelly, 52 and Geelongs future 3rd (53) back

so for Kelly the value was eqv to pick 1 plus pick 37?

 

[Keys]

You do realise Port told Graham that we are chasing JHF hence he pulled the pin.
You want pick 27 plus more isn't going to happen
The fact that you believe Junior is equal to Amon who was offered more $ per season,younger and polled top for us in the brownlow.
If Junior is worth that then the AFL need to change Amons pick to 9

Yes I do realise you told Graham that you were chasing JHF. It’s information that might have been handy for him to have known BEFORE you’d paraded him around Alberton with media watching on.

There’s very few posters here that think Rioli is worth more than 27. Personally, I think that could and should get the deal done. Throwing in some steak knives to make us feel better is neither here or there.

If Amon was being traded to Hawthorn he’d definitely be worth more than pick 27, you’ll get no argument from me on that. But he was a FA and the compensation isn’t designed to give fair value just some compensation

If you’re unable to provide a fair trade for Rioli, and pick 27 is fair, then it’s a poor reflection on your club

 

[Keys]

so for Kelly the value was eqv to pick 1 plus pick 37?

On points value yes

In actuality, probably not. I don’t think any club holding pick 1 would trade it for that collection of picks

Would you take those picks for pick 2 this year?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Surely the trade for the contracted JHF is more likely to fall over than the Rioli trade, like our first attempt at getting Kelly did?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

On points value yes

In actuality, probably not. I don’t think any club holding pick 1 would trade it for that collection of picks

Would you take those picks for pick 2 this year?

Exactly.

People need to stop referring to points value outside of the context of bidding on players.