AFL Autopsy RND 19: Loss to the Pies

[Bjchan13]

he creates that space.
Bianco is not on the wing before he plays on. he sprints the second Pendles comes out wide. And he's doing that for the play after the current one.
Moore was on for a short receive but Pendles puts him on a run so he can go out wide (where Bianco is heading).

Pendles knows the corridor = loss.
So gambles the wing, and trusts his team-mates are in sync with what's about to unfold.

He won that game for them (and Elliott's kick, which was pretty sensational)

Again i dont think its a ground breaking piece of play. Create space and go for it. Pendlebury would've been hoping for a Ham/Bianco 1v1 on the wing when he started the play. He didnt know Ham was going to leave his man

 

[windyhill]

What a campaigner. I’m dodging football talk back, newspapers etc. losing close ones is a part of football, but to those campaigners who **** me off as equally as c#rlton. Wow, not good. And then you get the maggots who start messaging, texting, vaping, shit stirring. campaigners I haven’t heard from in months !!
Im cutting my nose off to spite my face here but I’m not feeding my magpies for a week. Annoy some other campaigner you campaigners.

 

[Bjchan13]

The thing is there was only one player that ran to space so they where not looking to set up space on one side. They where 100% looking to go down the middle and Pendlebury adjusted it last second.

The way the ground was set up there wasnt any time for anyone else to lead into that space. The way is see it

Space is created

Pendlebury sees an opportunity for Moore to beat Wright to that space and kicks it to him. Simultaneously Bianco sprints to the wing (more space) and Ham leaves him to try and impact Moore.

Ham gets no where near Moore. No Essendon player reacted quick enough, or was in any position to cover Hams error

At this stage every Collingwood player can see that Bianco wide open on the wing and know the ball is getting to him. There is no need to also start to lead into his space so they sprint straight line down the middle of the ground towards their own goal, dragging their man with them.

Bianco gets his wide open wing and gets the kick inside 50 leading to a mark and goal.

 

[ant555]

I think we could've set the defence up to guard more space while still being responsible for a man somewhat. Make the ground small. You dont have to be side by side with a man to be responsible if you have structured up the ground to limit options from a kick out. Collingwood created tonnes of space so Pendlebury found the weak spot (space for Moore to run into) and exploited it. Theres no way he could've guessed Bianco would be wide open after going to Moore either. He would've been hoping for a 1v1 vs Ham on a wide open wing when he started the play. As it turns out Ham left his man and we know what happened from there. I dont think we were playing strict man on man defence, if we were Ham would never have left his man.

When we have set the ground wider we have been carved up every time. It is why we have adjusted our zone to be more man on man in your area rather than space. They where going to go middle. Pendlebury saw a fast play option with Moore which broke the game open. Where Moore went next is not really the point. Pendlebury saw where the space and put Moore in it. He was up and running and clear. After that there could have been a few scenarios. No Pendlebury could not know how Ham would react or even where Bianco may end up but the smart play was not just going to where they where set up but directing Moore where to run. From that point if he did not have the Bianco option he could have cleared the players in the middle.
I can tell you we have been playing man on man within the zone. Have been doing it since the bye. The fact that Ham left his man has nothing to do with man on man. I am not talking about everyone just staying with their man all game. It is about not just zoning an area but everyone picking a man in the zone.
Ham made a bad decision. He left his man to try and influence a contest he could not get to but I can understand why he did as you always want to pressure the player with the ball as there is more chance of making a mistake.
The smart part of the Pendlebury play was seeing the space at half back and quickly directing a player to run into it. It was that decision and the speed it was made that made it panic stations.

 

[TheGrizz]

Again i dont think its a ground breaking piece of play. Create space and go for it. Pendlebury would've been hoping for a Ham/Bianco 1v1 on the wing when he started the play. He didnt know Ham was going to leave his man

No one is saying it is ground breaking.

We are admiring the quick thinking in a high pressure moment that no one else on the ground seemed to have clued onto until Moore was out the back.

Pendlebury, at the least, realised that the 'zag' was not bombing it down the middle and chipping it to Moore who could us his athleticism in open space to at least get 30-50m further up the field before bombing to the contest.

No one is saying that Pendlebury would have expected Ham to peel off when he did, that is just good fortune created by taking a risk and not playing to the structure Collingwood had set up for.

 

[Bjchan13]

When we have set the ground wider we have been carved up every time. It is why we have adjusted our zone to be more man on man in your area rather than space. They where going to go middle. Pendlebury saw a fast play option with Moore which broke the game open. Where Moore went next is not really the point. Pendlebury saw where the space and put Moore in it. He was up and running and clear. After that there could have been a few scenarios. No Pendlebury could not know how Ham would react or even where Bianco may end up but the smart play was not just going to where they where set up but directing Moore where to run. From that point if he did not have the Bianco option he could have cleared the players in the middle.
I can tell you we have been playing man on man within the zone. Have been doing it since the bye. The fact that Ham left his man has nothing to do with man on man. I am not talking about everyone just staying with their man all game. It is about not just zoning an area but everyone picking a man in the zone.
Ham made a bad decision. He left his man to try and influence a contest he could not get to but I can understand why he did as you always want to pressure the player with the ball as there is more chance of making a mistake.
The smart part of the Pendlebury play was seeing the space at half back and quickly directing a player to run into it. It was that decision and the speed it was made that made it panic stations.

This i agree with but shouldnt man on man within zone have better ground coverage to begin with? Do you think theres any way we could've been set up earlier to limit space? Do you think theres any way to stop the play that unfolded?

 

[ant555]

The way the ground was set up there wasnt any time for anyone else to lead into that space. The way is see it

Space is created

Pendlebury sees an opportunity for Moore to beat Wright to that space and kicks it to him. Simultaneously Bianco sprints to the wing (more space) and Ham leaves him to try and impact Moore.

Ham gets no where near Moore. No Essendon player reacted quick enough, or was in any position to cover Hams error

At this stage every Collingwood player can see that Bianco wide open on the wing and know the ball is getting to him. There is no need to also start to lead into his space so they sprint straight line down the middle of the ground towards their own goal, dragging their man with them.

Bianco gets his wide open wing and gets the kick inside 50 leading to a mark and goal.

If that was the case more Collingwood players would have reacted to what he was going to do.
Sorry to be a smart ass here but footy tactics is what I do. It is how I watch every game and why I go to non Essendon games most weeks as well.
The coaching and tactics is a fascination I have always had.
It was a smart play. We lost because Jones misses goal. Wright is out of position . Pendlebury is quick enough to adjust what they going to do. Ham forced to make a decision that ended up being wrong. Langford completely missing the spoil.

 

[MiguelM]

When we have set the ground wider we have been carved up every time. It is why we have adjusted our zone to be more man on man in your area rather than space. They where going to go middle. Pendlebury saw a fast play option with Moore which broke the game open. Where Moore went next is not really the point. Pendlebury saw where the space and put Moore in it. He was up and running and clear. After that there could have been a few scenarios. No Pendlebury could not know how Ham would react or even where Bianco may end up but the smart play was not just going to where they where set up but directing Moore where to run. From that point if he did not have the Bianco option he could have cleared the players in the middle.
I can tell you we have been playing man on man within the zone. Have been doing it since the bye. The fact that Ham left his man has nothing to do with man on man. I am not talking about everyone just staying with their man all game. It is about not just zoning an area but everyone picking a man in the zone.
Ham made a bad decision. He left his man to try and influence a contest he could not get to but I can understand why he did as you always want to pressure the player with the ball as there is more chance of making a mistake.
The smart part of the Pendlebury play was seeing the space at half back and quickly directing a player to run into it. It was that decision and the speed it was made that made it panic stations.

Man on man to a point has been the reason for the turnaround. The zone wasn't working.

I have mentioned man on man a few times, we don't have the gut runners for a zone to work.

 

[Bjchan13]

If that was the case more Collingwood players would have reacted to what he was going to do.
Sorry to be a smart ass here but footy tactics is what I do. It is how I watch every game and why I go to non Essendon games most weeks as well.
The coaching and tactics is a fascination I have always had.
It was a smart play. We lost because Jones misses goal. Wright is out of position . Pendlebury is quick enough to adjust what they going to do. Ham forced to make a decision that ended up being wrong. Langford completely missing the spoil.

Absolutely no hint of you being a smartarse and most of us on here realise you know this stuff. I enjoy the conversation.

 

[ant555]

This i agree with but shouldnt man on man within zone have better ground coverage to begin with? Do you think theres any way we could've been set up earlier to limit space? Do you think theres any way to stop the play that unfolded?

If all the opposition players are in one area then that is where you go to. We have actually been prone to guarding space and meandering around the ground like the Shiel / Papley set up in Sydney. That is why we have gone more man on man. The simple fact is no mater how we set up further up the ground the speed that Pendlebury got Moore in space is the key. They where 99% going to get an overlap of some form because the players was already released.
Even if we managed to scramble and cover all options Moore just kicks it to the back of the square and I suspect their leg speed wins.

 

[Bjchan13]

If all the opposition players are in one area then that is where you go to. We have actually been prone to guarding space and meandering around the ground like the Shiel / Papley set up in Sydney. That is why we have gone more man on man. The simple fact is no mater how we set up further up the ground the speed that Pendlebury got Moore in space is the key. They where 99% going to get an overlap of some form because the players was already released.
Even if we managed to scramble and cover all options Moore just kicks it to the back of the square and I suspect their leg speed wins.

So theres no way of stopping it? Couldnt Wright have been in a better position earlier? Do you think Ham was expecting someone to cover for him in our defensive structure?

 

[Bjchan13]

If all the opposition players are in one area then that is where you go to. We have actually been prone to guarding space and meandering around the ground like the Shiel / Papley set up in Sydney. That is why we have gone more man on man. The simple fact is no mater how we set up further up the ground the speed that Pendlebury got Moore in space is the key. They where 99% going to get an overlap of some form because the players was already released.
Even if we managed to scramble and cover all options Moore just kicks it to the back of the square and I suspect their leg speed wins.

Man on man within a zone is definitely our go at the moment, i just struggled to see any form of zone, and Ham didn't stick with the man on man part. Everyone seemed slow to react. I still feel like we could've set up better during Harrys 30 seconds. Which he didnt even take.

 

[Bjchan13]

No one is saying it is ground breaking.

We are admiring the quick thinking in a high pressure moment that no one else on the ground seemed to have clued onto until Moore was out the back.

Pendlebury, at the least, realised that the 'zag' was not bombing it down the middle and chipping it to Moore who could us his athleticism in open space to at least get 30-50m further up the field before bombing to the contest.

No one is saying that Pendlebury would have expected Ham to peel off when he did, that is just good fortune created by taking a risk and not playing to the structure Collingwood had set up for.

I rate Pendlebury and his footy brain highly. I just think he took what we gave him. We were reactive. He was proactive.

 

[windyhill]

2 weeks, you can starve Buddy.

 

[Falcon27]

No consolation to us but the play probably does not happen if it is anyone but Pendlebury kicking out. It was his vision that set the play up telling Moore where to run and identifying where the space was very quickly. Most others would have just launched the footy down the middle.

Other interesting part is how many times would Pendlebury take a kick out? Not often I would say. He was way ahead of everyone basically and got himself to the goal line to orchestrate that play by been there and taking the kick in.

 

[citizen-erased]

2 weeks, you can starve Buddy.

Poor birdie.

 

[jmoo wan]

i’m avoiding all football related media and only hanging out in here so I don’t have to listen to a bunch of shit takes around the last play over and over and over again.

 

[windyhill]

i’m avoiding all football related media and only hanging out in here so I don’t have to listen to a bunch of s**t takes around the last play over and over and over again.

I’m hearing you. Imagine if we were half decent ? We’d eclipse those campaigners.

 

[DERO]

Imagine if Snelling had kicked instead of going the extra handball.

 

[jmoo wan]

I’m hearing you. Imagine if we were half decent ? We’d eclipse those campaigners.

but we aren’t half decent. we are a bunch of shit posters.

 

[ant555]

Man on man within a zone is definitely our go at the moment, i just struggled to see any form of zone, and Ham didn't stick with the man on man part. Everyone seemed slow to react. I still feel like we could've set up better during Harrys 30 seconds. Which he didnt even take.

Ham made a choice thinking he could maybe pressure Moore. The man on man is not strict man on man like the old days. It is man the player in your area and then make a decision on how the play unfolds. He made a poor choice thinking he could have some sort of effect. Cox was guilty of doing similar this year as well. He could see the players coming from defense and kept getting caught in no mans land as he wanted to push up and try and effect the player with the ball.
I think they set up to where the Collingwood players where.
And yes harry should have taken is 30 seconds.

So theres no way of stopping it? Couldnt Wright have been in a better position earlier? Do you think Ham was expecting someone to cover for him in our defensive structure?

Wright should have been a bit quicker to react but I do not think they could have stopped it. Once Moore was out the horse had bolted so to speak. If Ham stays with Bianco then maybe that forces Moore to kick over the players in the middle. Wright really needed to be aware that Moore could take off.
I think Ham did what they teach players to do and that is try and pressure the guy with the ball. He just misjudged how far away he was. As for cover Laverde nearly got there. As I mentioned before Langford should have effected the spoil as well.
Maybe if we had someone with the speed of Walla it changes the scenario.

 

[Bjchan13]

Ham made a choice thinking he could maybe pressure Moore. The man on man is not strict man on man like the old days. It is man the player in your area and then make a decision on how the play unfolds. He made a poor choice thinking he could have some sort of effect. Cox was guilty of doing similar this year as well. He could see the players coming from defense and kept getting caught in no mans land as he wanted to push up and try and effect the player with the ball.
I think they set up to where the Collingwood players where.
And yes harry should have taken is 30 seconds.

Wright should have been a bit quicker to react but I do not think they could have stopped it. Once Moore was out the horse had bolted so to speak. If Ham stays with Bianco then maybe that forces Moore to kick over the players in the middle. Wright really needed to be aware that Moore could take off.
I think Ham did what they teach players to do and that is try and pressure the guy with the ball. He just misjudged how far away he was. As for cover Laverde nearly got there. As I mentioned before Langford should have effected the spoil as well.
Maybe if we had someone with the speed of Walla it changes the scenario.

Appreciate the detailed response Ant. I'll maintain that we could've set the ground better during Harrys 30 seconds and been more prepared.

This from Trucks presser

'Its all disappointing. Disappointed we hit the post, you know, we couldn't get set, the ball shouldn't get down there that quick, we should spoil that ball out of bounds.... unfortunately its a part of the game tonight and one of the lessons we need to learn.'

 

[Runk]

Appreciate the detailed response Ant. I'll maintain that we could've set the ground better during Harrys 30 seconds and been more prepared.

This from Trucks presser

'Its all disappointing. Disappointed we hit the post, you know, we couldn't get set, the ball shouldn't get down there that quick, we should spoil that ball out of bounds.... unfortunately its a part of the game tonight and one of the lessons we need to learn.'

‘….we should spoil that out of bounds…’

Yes.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Holy heck there are some Pies supported with worms for brains. The way they're carrying on after one game about how unfair Ginnivan is being treated and with zero sense of irony considering that 50% of his career goals are from cheating

 

[frodos gardener]

Ginnivan has brought some damage to the AFL with his “approach” to being tackled. This whole heated situation is because he took something that outlier players like Selwood do and went way too far with it. Of course the AFL had to crack down and possibly be too strict in an effort to stamp it out.