Preview Rnd 3 - Carlton v Fremantle Sunday 4th April 3.20PM @ Etihad

[TheKITC]

As mentioned earlier no defender on the planet could have defended some of the clean ball coming into our backline last week. Turnovers up the ground were a reason and the mids were never going to stop a turnover if the opposition was clean with their skills plus the Pies were very clean if they won out of the middle vs our rushed hacks forward most of the time.

Not defending Plow specifically as there were other parts of his game that were off but when the ball comes in that quick and precise the back six are on a hiding to nothing.

Our midfield as a whole was schooled on decision making and execution.

Be interested in your thoughts on two things I raised re. Plowman.

- I said I will never be critical of players who try and fail, especially defenders, but to mine it looked like LP was going through the motions a bit and some of his efforts were lazy to my eye. Agree about the delivery coming in, but I think his work rate and intensity was poor at times.

- I was disgusted by him having a laugh with De Goey after being on the end of a hiding. I think that shows a lack of care and effort and sends a horrible message to young players about our culture. I get everyone is wired differently, but laughing and joking around after having your pants pulled down and the above was a horrible look and unacceptable for mine. I'd drop him on that alone, let him see how much fun the reserves is for a couple of weeks.

 

[murphster]

Of all our forwards, (excluding Curnow the younger), McGovern is the one who is most likely to put a defence to the sword in a 10-15 minute period. Has great hands, is a pretty good kick for goal and when on; nobody has better vision or is more creative in the F50. So for all the frustrations that come with players like Gov, you play them as often as you can.

McGovern will win the odd game of footy off his own boot. The problem is that it's the odd game. I don't doubt his effort or desire but most want more consistent output than we see at the moment.

You give them some licence but you surround them with effort driven, consistent players (to cover for the off-days) and hope they develop greater consistency themselves.

First thing we need is a real forwards coach that knows how the talls need to play, if we aren’t on the phone trying to convince Leppitsch to come and take over our forward line then we have no ****in idea, the man is coaching a high school team ffs.

Get him down to teach our forwards how to win a 1vs1 standing contest against a defender as at the moment they are horrendous, Levi has always been hopeless and Harry is heading that way as well it’s either on the lead or nothing with them, Harry could have kicked 6-7 if he knew how to body an opponent without giving away a free kick or falling over, Charlie is the only one who knows how to out position and out body an opponent 1 on 1 in our team and he can’t get on the field, Cripps could also benefit from this as he isn’t much better.

With the way the game is trending the ability to win 1vs1 is going to be more and more important so now is the time to fix it or once again fall behind the competition and limit the ways we can score.

The other facet is gaining separation on your opponent before you lead which again we are very poor at again through poor ability to out body or out position your opponent, get someone that knows how to teach it, aka Justin Leppitsch.

 

[juzz88]

Kennedy must play.

He smashed it in the VFL last time out, so he should get his reward.

We'd be mad not to play Stocker, too. Let's see where he's at. I have a gut feeling he'll show more than Dow and LOB have, but let's see.


Not too fussed what the other changes are (assuming JSOS needs more time), but those two have to come in for mine.

 

[Jimmae]

Plow did play mid occasionally in early GWS days.

That's part of why he was drafted so high, and it didn't really pan out.

 

[Blue since 72]

Be interested in your thoughts on two things I raised re. Plowman.

- I said I will never be critical of players who try and fail, especially defenders, but to mine it looked like LP was going through the motions a bit and some of his efforts were lazy to my eye. Agree about the delivery coming in, but I think his work rate and intensity was poor at times.

- I was disgusted by him having a laugh with De Goey after being on the end of a hiding. I think that shows a lack of care and effort and sends a horrible message to young players about our culture. I get everyone is wired differently, but laughing and joking around after having your pants pulled down and the above was a horrible look and unacceptable for mine. I'd drop him on that alone, let him see how much fun the reserves is for a couple of weeks.

Re point 1, I didn't pick up on what you saw about going through the motions but I did see him leave his man more than once to make a desperate saving mark as the ball came in. I do however think The pies did an excellent pre game analysis on his strengths and weaknesses, (much better than the Tiges did) and had two burst players in Elliott and DeGoey (when forward) on him who started deep and led up at the ball carrier. Plow was nowhere in that foot race, his strengths are more body on body with high ball coming in (ie dependant on slower ball movement up the ground) and knowing when to leave his man. Is also good when delivery is not clean.

Re point 2, this is really a subjective question and I feel I can't judge people who don't mind his actions vs those who do, as you say everyone is wired differently. His behaviour goes directly to who he is as a person and I have no right to demand he behave differently. Humans quite often have this irrational desire for other Humans to act and behave like they do but this isn't really a reasonable expectation given individuals upbringing/background.

We as fans have an absolute vested emotional interest in the fortunes of our players and team and I hated watching that performance as much as anyone but I personally have never really concerned myself with how the players interact after a game. Watching Plow after the game doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't care it might just mean he shows it differently to others, who knows it could have been relief that the game was over given how it played out for him (he could have said to DeGoey "thank **** that's over" and the natural reaction would be to smile or they've known each other for a long time and one said something funny not game related).

I remember that time Brett Kirk tried to shake Maclean's hand before first bounce and Brock ignored him and everyone went ballistic. Turns out Kirk knew he wouldn't shake his hand because that was part of Brock's pre start routine to get physicked up and did it for a stir.

Point is I don't begrudge anyone feeling disgusted, that's their right as an individual but I choose to believe it doesn't mean Plow doesn't give a shit.

 

[bigm386]

Sorry for the intrusion. Im honestly really surprised to see so much negativity on your board about your team/coach.

I thought you played darn well in rd 1, playing really excited footy. Yes you played badly against the Maggie's, but so did we rd 1 against the dees. The injuries to Martin and Fisher hurt, but Mckay could be anything, Walsh is a gun and you have a jet in Saad coming out of the backline. I think your team needs to probably be a bit more defensive, but the right ingredients are there to build a solid team.

I think GC, Freo and Carlton are about on the same level atm being a young team slowly climbing..and then you have Sydney who can turn it around in 2 years! Should be a good game Saturday.

I think most of the frustration isn't so much our kids but our senior players not standing up and making mistakes.

Eg you get Mundy we get Murphy and Curnow

Plus we have kids who can't seem to get a game regardless of how the mainstays perform.

I think you will be far too quick for us Sunday. Love how you have brought your kids on.

 

[bigm386]

So we got beaten by the best team in the comp, maybe best ever, two weeks ago and with less the 5 minutes to go we were less then 1 goal down . Cripps by far BOG at half time .
Last week we played a team that play in a GF 3 years ago and finals last year. It was a ripper of a game and again we did not disgrace ourselves. Im not happy that we lose( I dont think they were honourable loses) but we need to get a grip on reality and stop being so negative,. Ill be disapointed if we are not 3- 2 after the next 3 games and in the 8.

I think if we don't beat a depleted Freo in Melbourne we are a good chance to be 0-5.

Goldcoast is meant to be in Brisbane but even if the game is moved I wouldn't bank on a win especially if we show more of the same vs Freo.

Port are the best side in the comp for mine

 

[Ald Gardiner]

Yep I’d like to see Willo out and Parks in for him as we need to start playing a 3rd tall interceptor like every other club, sick of seeing Jones caught out trying to do both lock down and intercept as he doesn’t have the aptitude to do both like some others, Parks also has the ability to play tall or small so a direct swap for Willo gains us intercept marking power and loses nothing in terms of leg speed.

JSOS comes in for Martin that’s a no brainer, Betts for Fisher and O Mac replaces an underdone Casboult, I think we give Dow one more chance against the likes of Cerra and Brayshaw but if he doesn’t match them for intensity and possession winning ability he goes back to the VFL.

Setters needs to be back in the guts where he was the 2nd most improved player in the comp last year, Fogarty needs to be getting more midfield and centre bounce time especially against the Freo mids where he can use his stronger body and tackle pressure, he’s wasted as a full time forward and has huge midfield chops with a beautiful pair of hands in close and very good leg speed.

If Cripps is being blocked from the contest like the last 2 weeks he needs some help from his other mids or he needs to just be moved forward we can not afford to have him negated in the middle as it leaves us 1 down, Pendles just blocked him and then pushed off and used his superior leg speed to get to the ball which was far to easy, expect to see more of the same with Mundy if something isn’t done.

We need to have at least 2 players with a very quick first 2-3 steps at the centre bounce otherwise we will get blown away out of the centre again, watch the difference Martin made when he went into the middle in the second half with his burst speed and tackle pressure, 1 of either Cripps, Setters or even JSOS and the other 2 with burst speed, Walsh, Williams, Fogarty, Gibbons, Cunners or Stocker and rotate it constantly to keep them fresh and hungry. Oh and get rid of Barker and Stanton as they have no fu**in idea.

That's part of why he was drafted so high, and it didn't really pan out.

So he was better known as a mid in junior footy? Actually I shouldn’t be surprised given the way he slotted that goal in Rd 1.

 

[myblueroan]

 

[Recon_29]

Fair few supporters about that need a win just for their sanity I reckon, if this weeks blowup is anything to go by. Myself included.

 

[FRUMPY]

I'll go Eddie, Kennedy and stocker/debutant and probably means no LOB. Can't see 5 changes happening

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[Jimmae]

So he was better known as a mid in junior footy? Actually I shouldn’t be surprised given the way he slotted that goal in Rd 1.

No, he was seen as an attacking general defender who could move into the midfield. His kicking was incredibly rough though, and I guess the thinking was it could be smoothed out.

Should never have been top 10 though, arguably not even top 20, but it was a weak draft.

 

[FRUMPY]

No, he was seen as an attacking general defender who could move into the midfield. His kicking was incredibly rough though, and I guess the thinking was it could be smoothed out.

Should never have been top 10 though, arguably not even top 20, but it was a weak draft.

SOS took a lot of duds in those first few drafts

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[Aphrodite]

Injury news: Fitness tests for four

Carlton could welcome back four players to the fold this weekend.

www.carltonfc.com.au

 

[Pablito]

SOS took a lot of duds in those first few drafts

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First draft was Weiters, McKay, Curnow, Cunners and JSOS. All are best 22 (cunners only question mark). Second draft is SPS, Fisher and Williamson ( Macreadie and Polson were misses).
8 players in our best 22-25 is fairly good.

 

[james Dean]

I'll go Eddie, Kennedy and stocker/debutant and probably means no LOB. Can't see 5 changes happening

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The article names the three. It’s McGovern,
Philp and Marchbank

all 3 will be in the VFL

 

[17SetMeFree]

Make no mistake, North will have us penciled in as a win. They go in way too hard for Carlton.

put plowman on zirhaar, you'll never see him again

 

[TheKITC]

Re point 1, I didn't pick up on what you saw about going through the motions but I did see him leave his man more than once to make a desperate saving mark as the ball came in. I do however think The pies did an excellent pre game analysis on his strengths and weaknesses, (much better than the Tiges did) and had two burst players in Elliott and DeGoey (when forward) on him who started deep and led up at the ball carrier. Plow was nowhere in that foot race, his strengths are more body on body with high ball coming in (ie dependant on slower ball movement up the ground) and knowing when to leave his man. Is also good when delivery is not clean.

I think that is probably fair enough. Problem being is that who do we play on the De Goey / Martin types if not Plow? Sure they are hard match ups and LP won't be the last player who they get a hold of, but it's really him then a young Williamson for us and that's about it. Concerning.

I think Cornes highlighted a lack of running back hard which led to an easy Thomas hand-off goal that Plowman would have easily been able to compete in if he has run hard. There was another instance where Plowman had a limp wristed spoil attempt that just lacked any real purpose. Couple of other things he did had me concerned too, which may might have been because I was already pissed at him for other things, but I'd have to watch the replay again *spew* to be more specific than that. Simple effort based things though. I always think no matter how talented a player or how good/bad a game someone is having, effort is always something you can control and these guys are pro athletes.

Re point 2, this is really a subjective question and I feel I can't judge people who don't mind his actions vs those who do, as you say everyone is wired differently. His behaviour goes directly to who he is as a person and I have no right to demand he behave differently. Humans quite often have this irrational desire for other Humans to act and behave like they do but this isn't really a reasonable expectation given individuals upbringing/background.

We as fans have an absolute vested emotional interest in the fortunes of our players and team and I hated watching that performance as much as anyone but I personally have never really concerned myself with how the players interact after a game. Watching Plow after the game doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't care it might just mean he shows it differently to others, who knows it could have been relief that the game was over given how it played out for him (he could have said to DeGoey "thank fu** that's over" and the natural reaction would be to smile or they've known each other for a long time and one said something funny not game related).

Plowman was laughing and joking with De Goey (his opponent) during the match, just after he had a kicked a goal on him. That's the point. I don't really mind what the players do before or after the ball is bounced, but I had a real problem with that.

 

[Jimmae]

First draft was Weiters, McKay, Curnow, Cunners and JSOS. All are best 22 (cunners only question mark). Second draft is SPS, Fisher and Williamson ( Macreadie and Polson were misses).
8 players in our best 22-25 is fairly good.

We're discussing the 2012 draft, so GWS.

 

[17SetMeFree]

Just a follow up. Following an angry email to the club, I was called this morning. They said it was a fault at Ticketmaster that caused level 2 reserved seat members to be seated at level 1. They are going to fix it manually and we will get seats on level 2. Let's hope it is a Ticketmaster **** up and not the club, and if true they are going to be busy correcting this manually over the next couple of days.
We had a general chat about the whole system as there is NO reason why reserved seat members should not just take their normal seats. We scan our tickets and the member information is held by Ticketmaster.
The answer is that a State government bureaucrat has decided that all tickets for all sports events have to be done the same way through these 2 ticket organisations - at least for the rest of the year. The clubs and the AFL are pushing back, as this diminishes the value of reserved seats memberships and adds a lot of potential work for membership departments like in my case. Unfortunately we might see this problem for a long time - the State Government loves inconsistent restrictions and if we have just one new infection they will lock us out anyway.

all these events concerts , sports , etc have to be done via Ticketmaster. You need to get the app and scan it with your phone upon entry. maybe you'all should be checking what permissions this app has, to be sure to be sure

 

[Aphrodite]

We're discussing the 2012 draft, so GWS.

Not the thread for it Jimmae.

Discuss it in the appropriate thread.


Back to Carlton v Freo preview!

 

[Blue since 72]

The article names the three. It’s McGovern,
Philp and Marchbank

all 3 will be in the VFL

So you'd think only Eddie and JSOS for Jack and Fish. Maybe OMac for Cas but would be concerned with the ruck chop out, although I think Cas only
attended 6 ball ups so maybe OMac can deal with that.

 

[james Dean]

So you'd think only Eddie and JSOS for Jack and Fish. Maybe OMac for Cas but would be concerned with the ruck chop out, although I think Cas only
attended 6 ball ups so maybe OMac can deal with that.

Also Sean Darcy isn’t Grundy

Pittonet should be able to at least break even with him

 

[My Hat]

I just can't get worked up about players laughing. Everyone's wired differently, laughter can mean so many different things, it's pointless to try to draw conclusions about players from a laugh here or there. And really, the last thing we need is to create pressure on our players to engage in performative moping so as to appease the laughter police.

 

[FRUMPY]

The article names the three. It’s McGovern,
Philp and Marchbank

all 3 will be in the VFL

So a nothing article then....glad I didn't read it

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