Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

Happy?

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Kappa said:
He's a fraud. Stay away.
Click to expand...
You cannot tell what the assistant coaches are like unless players say something.

Who knows if Harvey is any good. The only thing is, if he was a fraud how does he stay in the industry for so many years without being found out?
 
Steven Baker on The Maccas Run


player.whooshkaa.com

Steven Baker (24/10/22)

Former St Kilda player Steven Baker joined Sam Hargreaves to discuss the appointment of Ross Lyon as head coach for 2023
player.whooshkaa.com player.whooshkaa.com
 

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OxSaint said:
So is Robert Harvey a good assistant? I understand the romance behind it, I just don’t hear him getting praised like others. Leaves Collingwood and they become challengers and hear nothing from his time at Hawthorne.
Click to expand...
Buckley gave him a huge amount of credit with being able to turn things around and get them into a grand final in 2018
 
Parkysp said:
Imagine you have a job. That job involves you writing about football. That job involves you going to a press conference and listening. And this is the article you come up with after. Jonathan Horn should just have stuck to the main Big Footy board.

"It’s hard to see how his defensive, asphyxiating, attritional brand will cut it in this conspicuously more attacking, open era of football."

The 09 style that would have topped the scoring this year you absolute turtle?! The 10 style where he lost his captain and key forward for 10 games so had to come up with a plan B that took us to the bounce of a footy away from beating the best side all year you absolute pillock?

Perhaps wait and see a praccy game ya flog!

www.theguardian.com

St Kilda will get no easy answers in Ross Lyon’s second stint with AFL club | Jonathan Horn

The returning coach says he has ‘unfinished business’ after taking on a job loaded with emotional risk – both for him and the club
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Oh it feels good to get back to where journalists of a certain ilk turn up with absolute stupidity and bag us for when we get something right.

I reckon Jonathan was once a Shane. Go read up on those Ross Lyon sides and come back to us when you've had an education Champ.
Click to expand...
I think the article is pretty bang assessment of Lyons personality and the issues that face him if he is going to win a premiership this time around. Lyon admits it himself - the game has changed, he needs to change.

As for his 2009/10 style and scoring capabilities, his defensive strategies were way ahead of their time but they are the norm now. As good at the 2009 team was, they'd find it harder to score now than they did back then.

One thing I certainly agree with in the article is the sentence that immediately follows the one you quoted

"To make this work, he’s going to have to change, to delegate and to soften. He said as much on Monday. If he’s given time and space by the new regime, and if he can make this list pop, he’ll go down as one of the great coaches of the modern era."

At the moment I rate him as a very good coach, I'm now hoping like hell that he does become great coach.
 
heynow85 said:
Anything in this interview worth mentioning? Unable to listen to it at the moment
Click to expand...
Pretty similar to what he said in his press conference.

He says he has reached out to Harvey who has a decision to make.

Sounds like he has some interest in taking up Goddards offer but mentioned the soft cap so he's probably behind a few
 
Plugger35 said:
I've always had a lot time for Eddie, he was a great president for Collingwood, a mover and shaker that got Malthouse from West Coast to coach them.

I think he has a soft spot for St Kilda as he always barracked for us when he commentated our games and he probably would have been barracking for us in the 2010 GF too if we weren't playing Collingwood. It wouldn't surprise me either if he was helping us out behind the scenes to land Geoff Walsh and Ross Lyon who he clearly rates highly.

I've got no doubt Eddie would have loved to have Ross Lyon coaching Collingwood but as I've said before I don't think Ross has much interest in coaching the big successful clubs like Collingwood, Carlton or Essendon, that doesn't excite him, and that's one of the reasons he knocked them back.

Coaching smaller unsuccessful clubs like St Kilda and Freo that have long premiership droughts or no premierships at all is what excites him and inspires him and he basically confirmed that at the presser today when he talked about wanting to climb Mount Everest again to win a premiership with us.

He got us to within sight of the peak of Everest twice and then we ran out of oxygen and choked, this time he should be better prepared with better sherpas and more oxygen with a better resourced base camp so hopefully we can go all the way.
Click to expand...

Ross has always had a touch of mad genius about him. He's a bit eccentric, a bit vain, a bit left field.....but he's a very good coach. St Kilda and Freo are eccentric teams. They don't fit the mould and Ross wouldn't suit any other type of club. He just feels like the right fit, even the return and the slow sign on is just different from what others do.

I'm happy we've finally stopped trying to be something we're not, got back in touch with our weird side and bought back our spirit.
 

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gringo2011 said:
Ross has always had a touch of mad genius about him. He's a bit eccentric, a bit vain, a bit left field.....but he's a very good coach. St Kilda and Freo are eccentric teams. They don't fit the mould and Ross wouldn't suit any other type of club. He just feels like the right fit, even the return and the slow sign on is just different from what others do.

I'm happy we've finally stopped trying to be something we're not, got back in touch with our weird side and bought back our spirit.
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Reminded me of Big Poppa Pump - The Big Bad Booty Daddy has returned for all his freaks out there.

Could get away with this as the official presser - talks about Ratten's sacking initially and gives kudos to his freaks and hoochies. Finishes with calling out Chris Scott.


 
bird_man said:
Buckley gave him a huge amount of credit with being able to turn things around and get them into a grand final in 2018
Click to expand...
Geoff Walsh was also at Collingwood during that time and will have worked with Harvey up close. So if there was concerns about him as an assistant, I doubt Walsh would tick it off.
 
austinnn said:
FWIW I have followed the media reaction to the last 2 weeks with bemusement. I am more convinced than ever that they want to keep us down, they did it during Ross's last turn here, I always put that down the Herald Sun being especially critical because The Age was one of our sponsors back then.

But now in the age of Bantz and less accountable journalistic "opinion", they go even harder on the low hanging fruit, and right now we're exposed.

Unlike previously, most of our fans aren't worried as they take in this biased drivel, and are stubbornly optimistic. Hope it lasts!


What I will say is that it is really noticable, the difference between the people who actually have a clue about football and how it's coached and played, and those who are just in the game for the drama and grifting along as a pundit.

That first group includes people like Jimmy Bartel, David King, Leigh Matthews, Eddie McGuire, Dermott Brereton, who are all really positive about the appointment because they recognise the difference in quality between Ratten and Lyon, and see potential in our list.

The latter group are all the bottom feeders like Damien Barrett, Mitch Cleary, Caroline Wilson, Ben Dixon, that Rowe flog in SA, Robbo, Whatley, the hand-wringing peanut gallery as well as the innumerable procession of trolls and illiterate nuffies on SM whining about a lack of process or Ratten's sacking or our club's history blah blah blah.

One group look at the football, the other at the drama. That totally validates the decision IMO and I couldn't be more delighted. Let the vinegar in their hearts burn forever more!

ST KILDA 150 - ALL IN!
Click to expand...



Honestly they give zero shits about any side other than clicks. They have stats to show negative stories attract people to them so they write what people read. The issue with that is it creates a narrative that makes your club less attractive to members and sponsors so you have to work to make less stories for them to write by performing. I think we might have finally got back on to that path.
 

St Kilda and Ross Lyon: a love story in two parts​

Michael Gleeson

By Michael Gleeson​

October 25, 2022 — 5.00am

St Kilda never fell out of love with Ross Lyon. In a modern rarity of coaching he sacked them, he wasn’t sacked by them.

It is now an even rarer modern coaching love story: he has been hired back again by the club he walked out on.
While the sacking of Brett Ratten blindsided everyone except those who had been on Lindsay Fox’s yacht, this appointment blindsides no-one, and yet it is a truly remarkable change.

It has had the feel of a rom-com about it; St Kilda courting Lyon again, and Lyon blushing at having his heart opened up. On Monday he spoke of how he surprised himself at becoming emotional when the reality of making this reconnection with the club that had changed the course of his life suddenly looked likely.

He had never lost touch with significant people from the time he was there. And now he is back they will be the ones he again leans on most. Lenny Hayes is back there as an assistant and Robert Harvey will be announced within days. Nick Dal Santo coaches the women’s team. Nick Riewoldt has been a constant close friend turned gentle matchmaker for his former club and coach.

The Saints have had time enough to move on from Ross Lyon walking out on them to get over it. Time enough to churn through other coaches who could not take them where Ross Lyon took them, and to reflect that if maybe they got their old coach back they could also get back to where they were when he was coaching them.
Geoff Walsh spoke candidly when he was appointed as the new footy general manager that the Saints were irrelevant. He was being honest and accurate. That he was provocative was a bonus.

Clearly he had made the same unvarnished comment in his job interview, and it resonated with St Kilda given they have since spoken about wanting to be relevant again. They feel the last time they were relevant in footy was when Grant Thomas and then Ross were coaching. That is a bit harsh on the first half of this year, when the team was 8-3 and in the top four, but the more telling point about relevance was how little the meek surrender of the second half of their season registered in the footy conversation.


Walsh was not the architect of this coaching change. He did not review this footy department (it was one of the few club reviews in the last year he did not do), and so did not have his fingerprints on the decision to sack Ratten.

Indeed, he had coffee with Ratten to talk about the year ahead and changes they might make just the day before the coach was sacked. He will have had a sense of the review and the possibility of the board making a change, but it was not a change at his instigation.


Walsh and Lyon both arrive in the job as very senior figures in the game, and yet their paths had barely previously crossed. They had fractious moments when Walsh was at Collingwood and Lyon as St Kilda coach resisted the trade of Luke Ball, and later when the Saints were keen on Sharrod Wellingham. They were little more than regular football squabbles, forgotten as quickly as they blaze up.

The question of relevance for St Kilda is an interesting one. The Saints had to wonder if Lyon’s game style, itself, was now irrelevant. It was a fair question because Lyon had asked himself the same question.

This was the moment on Monday where the signs of a different Ross Lyon were most apparent. Ordinarily a combative character, Lyon was true to his promise of being more open and honest. The modern game was played differently and he couldn’t seek to overlay what he had done before on this St Kilda team.

He would coach people differently - delegate more - and he would coach a slightly different style of game. What would not be different were the uncompromising standards and the drilled understanding of what that game would be.

Lyon can quote statistics on why criticism of his game as too defensive is unfair, but refreshingly, in the same breath, he undid his own argument by quoting a figure that when his teams were first for defence, they had also been eighth for attack and that sort of imbalance is unsustainable.

He admits the game his team will play will not be the game his sides previously played. It will not be Lyon-ball. He is pleased his new side can run and that is something that works in modern footy and what he wants to cultivate.

Just how they do that is the most crucial next part, and this is where the real shift in Lyon is. He will not walk in the door with his gameplan and tell the players how they are going to play. He will not sit his assistants down and hand out a manila folder with what to do.

Instead, he intends to hear what his assistants - Hayes, Corey Enright, and Harvey - tell him about the game that will best suit his players and the modern style of game, and tailor something from that. In coaching, a football philosophy is very different to game style or tactics. Lyon will always have a defensive philosophy that his assistants understand, but the tactics will change.


This all sounds a bit like Kevin Bartlett promising to handball more, but Lyon does a persuasive job of selling the message that the biggest shift in his thinking in his time away from the game has been an appreciation that he wants to bring all people with him on the journey, not just a few, and that a key part of that journey is listening and delegating.

Repeatedly, Lyon spoke at his press conference of not being stuck “in the weeds”. He also admits that “dropping the curtain” on the outside world and keeping the media and the fans the other side of that curtain was a mistake in the past.

This was part of understanding that he was not suddenly “Cuddly Ross” (his words) but he was at least ‘Different Ross’; more open-minded about his own shortcomings and where he could be better. Lyon II.

When he arrived at St Kilda the first time he took over a team that had also been in the finals, further than this team, but the club then, like now, felt it needed a coach to take them further.

When he arrived at St Kilda that first time he also took over a vastly better list of players: Nick Riewoldt and Lenny Hayes were their best players, with Brendon Goddard, Sam Fisher, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna and Stephen Milne among the A-grade talent. Some were already stars when he got there, and others became A-graders.

This time he has a team of uncertain elite quality. Jack Steele is an A grader, Max King should be, and Jack Sinclair, as an All-Australian this year, probably already is. Then there are some like Jade Gresham who has the scope to be at that level, Rohan Marshall who continues to improve, and then serviceable role players.

Lyon was dismissive of list analysis, insisting he didn’t do it at St Kilda or Fremantle before taking either of those jobs, and had not done it second time around at St Kilda. He was more concerned with putting the right people in place to make decisions, and then things could turn quickly.

Besides, Tom Atkins at Geelong was the perfect example of how perceptions and players can change. Twelve months ago he was no one’s idea of a midfielder and now, in the space of a year, he has rewarded Chris Scott by becoming a key midfielder in a premiership team.
 
stavro#4 said:
Click to expand...

Can’t help but get excited when he talks about football

If you’re a player who’s message would you rather listen to
Richo-Ratts or Lyon
 
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BrutThough said:
Geoff Walsh was also at Collingwood during that time and will have worked with Harvey up close. So if there was concerns about him as an assistant, I doubt Walsh would tick it off.
Click to expand...
That's a good point
 
FQFjt said:
In all seriousness, I have a feeling Jack Hayes and Ross Lyon will be a match made in heaven. Just to remind you of how good his debut match was:

Click to expand...



I think he looks like a Ross special. He's done it the hard way and has something to prove, Ross should harness all that and be able to unleash him. I wouldn't be surprised if he's in our leadership group in the next couple of years with Ross backing him in. he's already shown he has that kind of focus and team game that Ross expects. He should find it easiest to adjust of just about any player.
 
sauce_head said:
Yah that was brutally bad. It’s when it was confirmed to me we had no game plan or forward structure.
Click to expand...
Walked out thinking the same thing
No game plan no structure
 
StCicatriz said:
Gresham looks like a guy who's seriously miffed. Clark looks like a guy who's life has flashed between his eyes.
Click to expand...


I think we've been pretty unfair on HC to be honest. I think to justify trading him we've bagged him publicly. It looks like he's covered the most kms in a lot of our matches so he's obviously not lazy. He's got some issues with focus outside footy but if he's anything like me there wasn't much to inspire you.

Perhaps he'll be one that gets the Ross love and becomes the player we have all dreamed of. It sounds as though the relationship breakdown was Ratts exit interviews insulting him for not doing more than they had asked of him and threatening to trade him.

Ross has man management skills that should make some really step up and understand expectation. I look forward to seeing what HC can do next year.
 
pebblesofsand said:

St Kilda and Ross Lyon: a love story in two parts​

Michael Gleeson

By Michael Gleeson​

October 25, 2022 — 5.00am

St Kilda never fell out of love with Ross Lyon. In a modern rarity of coaching he sacked them, he wasn’t sacked by them.

It is now an even rarer modern coaching love story: he has been hired back again by the club he walked out on.
While the sacking of Brett Ratten blindsided everyone except those who had been on Lindsay Fox’s yacht, this appointment blindsides no-one, and yet it is a truly remarkable change.

It has had the feel of a rom-com about it; St Kilda courting Lyon again, and Lyon blushing at having his heart opened up. On Monday he spoke of how he surprised himself at becoming emotional when the reality of making this reconnection with the club that had changed the course of his life suddenly looked likely.

He had never lost touch with significant people from the time he was there. And now he is back they will be the ones he again leans on most. Lenny Hayes is back there as an assistant and Robert Harvey will be announced within days. Nick Dal Santo coaches the women’s team. Nick Riewoldt has been a constant close friend turned gentle matchmaker for his former club and coach.

The Saints have had time enough to move on from Ross Lyon walking out on them to get over it. Time enough to churn through other coaches who could not take them where Ross Lyon took them, and to reflect that if maybe they got their old coach back they could also get back to where they were when he was coaching them.
Geoff Walsh spoke candidly when he was appointed as the new footy general manager that the Saints were irrelevant. He was being honest and accurate. That he was provocative was a bonus.

Clearly he had made the same unvarnished comment in his job interview, and it resonated with St Kilda given they have since spoken about wanting to be relevant again. They feel the last time they were relevant in footy was when Grant Thomas and then Ross were coaching. That is a bit harsh on the first half of this year, when the team was 8-3 and in the top four, but the more telling point about relevance was how little the meek surrender of the second half of their season registered in the footy conversation.


Walsh was not the architect of this coaching change. He did not review this footy department (it was one of the few club reviews in the last year he did not do), and so did not have his fingerprints on the decision to sack Ratten.

Indeed, he had coffee with Ratten to talk about the year ahead and changes they might make just the day before the coach was sacked. He will have had a sense of the review and the possibility of the board making a change, but it was not a change at his instigation.


Walsh and Lyon both arrive in the job as very senior figures in the game, and yet their paths had barely previously crossed. They had fractious moments when Walsh was at Collingwood and Lyon as St Kilda coach resisted the trade of Luke Ball, and later when the Saints were keen on Sharrod Wellingham. They were little more than regular football squabbles, forgotten as quickly as they blaze up.

The question of relevance for St Kilda is an interesting one. The Saints had to wonder if Lyon’s game style, itself, was now irrelevant. It was a fair question because Lyon had asked himself the same question.

This was the moment on Monday where the signs of a different Ross Lyon were most apparent. Ordinarily a combative character, Lyon was true to his promise of being more open and honest. The modern game was played differently and he couldn’t seek to overlay what he had done before on this St Kilda team.

He would coach people differently - delegate more - and he would coach a slightly different style of game. What would not be different were the uncompromising standards and the drilled understanding of what that game would be.

Lyon can quote statistics on why criticism of his game as too defensive is unfair, but refreshingly, in the same breath, he undid his own argument by quoting a figure that when his teams were first for defence, they had also been eighth for attack and that sort of imbalance is unsustainable.

He admits the game his team will play will not be the game his sides previously played. It will not be Lyon-ball. He is pleased his new side can run and that is something that works in modern footy and what he wants to cultivate.

Just how they do that is the most crucial next part, and this is where the real shift in Lyon is. He will not walk in the door with his gameplan and tell the players how they are going to play. He will not sit his assistants down and hand out a manila folder with what to do.

Instead, he intends to hear what his assistants - Hayes, Corey Enright, and Harvey - tell him about the game that will best suit his players and the modern style of game, and tailor something from that. In coaching, a football philosophy is very different to game style or tactics. Lyon will always have a defensive philosophy that his assistants understand, but the tactics will change.


This all sounds a bit like Kevin Bartlett promising to handball more, but Lyon does a persuasive job of selling the message that the biggest shift in his thinking in his time away from the game has been an appreciation that he wants to bring all people with him on the journey, not just a few, and that a key part of that journey is listening and delegating.

Repeatedly, Lyon spoke at his press conference of not being stuck “in the weeds”. He also admits that “dropping the curtain” on the outside world and keeping the media and the fans the other side of that curtain was a mistake in the past.

This was part of understanding that he was not suddenly “Cuddly Ross” (his words) but he was at least ‘Different Ross’; more open-minded about his own shortcomings and where he could be better. Lyon II.

When he arrived at St Kilda the first time he took over a team that had also been in the finals, further than this team, but the club then, like now, felt it needed a coach to take them further.

When he arrived at St Kilda that first time he also took over a vastly better list of players: Nick Riewoldt and Lenny Hayes were their best players, with Brendon Goddard, Sam Fisher, Nick Dal Santo, Leigh Montagna and Stephen Milne among the A-grade talent. Some were already stars when he got there, and others became A-graders.

This time he has a team of uncertain elite quality. Jack Steele is an A grader, Max King should be, and Jack Sinclair, as an All-Australian this year, probably already is. Then there are some like Jade Gresham who has the scope to be at that level, Rohan Marshall who continues to improve, and then serviceable role players.

Lyon was dismissive of list analysis, insisting he didn’t do it at St Kilda or Fremantle before taking either of those jobs, and had not done it second time around at St Kilda. He was more concerned with putting the right people in place to make decisions, and then things could turn quickly.

Besides, Tom Atkins at Geelong was the perfect example of how perceptions and players can change. Twelve months ago he was no one’s idea of a midfielder and now, in the space of a year, he has rewarded Chris Scott by becoming a key midfielder in a premiership team.
Click to expand...
That's a pretty balanced take on all this. The most fascinating part of the "process" we went through with Ross, "where we opened up his heart" has
been lost I think in all of this and requires further analysis.

3ZX75S.gif
 
Last edited:

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Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

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