Is your list really that terrible? A year later and your squad needs a bit of regeneration but name a team that hasn't come to the end of sustained finals footy that hasn't been in that situation.
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Ross Lyon - what a coach
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Is your list really that terrible? A year later and your squad needs a bit of regeneration but name a team that hasn't come to the end of sustained finals footy that hasn't been in that situation.
- Mar 2, 2007
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Funny how Saints fans criticise Lyon for this but then also trumpet the great youth they have coming through when people criticise their list.
saber_32au
All Australian
- Oct 4, 2010
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Look, I personally don't believe the list is in a bad state. Personally I think we're 1-2 key position defenders and maybe a backup ruckman away from being back into the top 8. This question has already been brought up on the Saint forum; I've voted that we'll be back in top 8 contention next year if we get the players I was referring to earlier.
I'm just pointing out that certainly on the Saints forum (both on Bigfooty and other forums), many saints supporters felt Lyon left the list in not a great shape, and didn't play enough youngsters. If you added the phrase "but we won 2 premierships with this list", most would have been forgiven Lyon on that point. Its funny how achieving ultimate success can cover up other deficiencies.
He's an excellent coach, no denying that. People say he didn't win a flag so he isn't that good. He coached a drawn grand final and another grand final losss where the umpiring was disgusting. Most unlucky non-premiership coach ever.
Check out our talent aged 23-25 ....she's thin and thats because Ross played Mcqualter, Eddy, Peakes, Jones, Polo's as opposed to adopting a Malthouse/Cats approach and blending/allowing kids greater game time.
Fair enough in some respects, he wanted to and believed he'd win a flag with mature bodies. Facts are we are now light on in this area for that reason.
Pelchen/Watters have a tough job - we have an ageing core, BIG GAP, and do have some good, YOUNGER kids.......with stuff all game time under their belts. We'll float for a while but hope wedont do a Melb and remove all our experience and leave these kids to sink.
Pelchen was appointed above Lyon to report to the board to fix this. Ross didnt like it but in year 1 Pelchen dragged in mature recruits in Saad/Milera (13 games this year) to help bridge this. He's done ok so far and I note our drafting focusses less on "role" players and more on kids who can actually kick....(nice change).
I hold no grudge to Freo -IMO time was right for Lyon and Saints to part ways........he was no master coach for us last year was he??? why??......cause he knew the list needed rejuvination. Freo has enough young talent coming through.....but it will be interesting when Pavlich, Sandilands, McPharlin etc go....(they aint spring chickens).....but for Ross's sake... I guess Port Adelaide will be coming through...
Ed_Gein
Very good. But brick not hit back!
- Dec 17, 2003
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Yup, Walker was having a really good game. And every time he got the ball in the 2nd half i thought to myself, "Has Lyon still got Silvagni on him?"
- Jun 5, 2004
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Lol, someone offended from last week?
His coaching style is evident. But his matchup choice of Silvagni on Walker and not changing that proved the difference tonight.
Pav was crap. Sandilands was well beaten. Ballantyne average. Hill average. Barlow quiet. Still only went down by 10 in an away final.
Will be a big improver next year.
His coaching style is evident. But his matchup choice of Silvagni on Walker and not changing that proved the difference tonight.
Pav was crap. Sandilands was well beaten. Ballantyne average. Hill average. Barlow quiet. Still only went down by 10 in an away final.
Will be a big improver next year.
shenanigans
Cancelled
- Sep 10, 2012
- 146
- 51
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- Fremantle
Freo ran out of legs simple as that and couldn't do what Lyon wanted them to.
- Banned
- #136
Fremantle were dragged out of position by Adelaides short game, lots of uncontested short spot up kicks.
Thought it was an excellent effort by Sanderson to address this at half time, Fremantle were good and Lyon has done well, but he was out thought tonight.
Very good coach.
I am curious how long there will be this absolute buy in from the players though.
Mentally and physically, a very hard GP to sustain.
Once the GP clicked with the Saints, they had that air of invincibility for about 19 rounds, then people worked us out.
I can't help but feel they will burst out of the blocks and slowly drop off from about mid way next year, purely from fatigue, and other teams working them out.
I am curious how long there will be this absolute buy in from the players though.
Mentally and physically, a very hard GP to sustain.
Once the GP clicked with the Saints, they had that air of invincibility for about 19 rounds, then people worked us out.
I can't help but feel they will burst out of the blocks and slowly drop off from about mid way next year, purely from fatigue, and other teams working them out.
I hate to say it, but who do you switch? Put Silvagni against Tippett, Silvagni is down 10 cm and 10 kg, he'd get slapped everytime you drop the ball on his head, and unfortunately Dawson isn't nimble enough to stick with Walker, he's already suited more to the Tippett type. Can't blame Lyon for losing his number 1 KPD in McPharlin.
Silvagni was the best option they had for Walker in the game and unfortunately couldn't stop/spoil the supply going to him.
- Banned
- #139
He pulled the move, but it was too late.
Michael Johnson went to Walker and did a good job, long arms, good height and good on the lead.
He was just a little too late and wanted Johnson as the intercept man, probably needed to go a little earlier.
- Jul 20, 2010
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Not sure which you were talking about, 09 or 10' but I'd say 99% of neutrals would agree they were both fairly umpired games.
I don't mind most St Kilda supporters but for some reason, along with the Scott brothers, you are the biggest bunch of umpiring sooks going around.
They tried that in round 18/19 whenever exactly it was when McPharlin was suspended and Roberton came into Johnsons role, Johnson can pinch hit as a Key Defender but not for sustained periods. He plays his best football watching the ball come in, but on a man his opponent gets loose too easily.
Lyon does play fewer kids than other coaches. That much is fact.
Cumulative percentage of games played under current coaches by age:
Code:
Coach 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 Win %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Scott, Chris 0 0 X 7 15 23 25 32 38 41 46 58 66 78 92 96 98 99 100 100 100 100 77.08
Sanderson, Brenton 0 0 X 1 11 17 39 49 55 64 70 75 81 96 96 96 99 100 100 100 100 100 73.91
Buckley, Nathan 0 0 2 8 18 24 34 43 58 79 83 83 88 93 97 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 69.57
Longmire, John 0 0 1 8 15 18 27 39 46 53 61 68 76 84 90 96 100 100 100 100 100 100 64.89
Lyon, Ross 0 0 1 2 6 12 18 30 44 55 67 78 84 90 95 97 98 98 99 99 100 100 64.58
Sheedy, Kevin 0 X 4 9 17 26 36 46 55 64 73 81 87 91 95 97 99 100 100 100 100 100 59.60
Malthouse, Mick X X 3 9 17 27 37 47 58 67 76 82 89 94 97 98 99 100 100 100 100 100 58.58
Clarkson, Alastair 0 0 3 8 16 27 39 51 61 71 78 85 91 95 98 99 100 100 100 100 100 100 57.26
Worsfold, John 0 X 2 8 18 28 41 54 64 72 80 86 91 95 98 99 100 100 100 100 100 100 54.65
Watters, Scott 0 0 0 5 7 13 24 30 37 44 52 55 77 87 88 91 100 100 100 100 100 100 54.55
Scott, Brad 0 0 3 12 20 30 40 52 63 72 80 86 91 95 95 96 97 99 100 100 100 100 52.24
Hird, James 0 0 1 8 15 23 41 57 69 76 82 86 89 91 95 96 96 96 96 97 99 100 50.00
Voss, Michael 0 0 3 10 22 32 44 53 60 68 76 82 86 90 95 97 98 100 100 100 100 100 39.44
Hardwick, Damien 0 0 4 13 23 36 47 64 75 81 87 89 94 96 98 99 100 100 100 100 100 100 37.88
McCartney, Brendan 0 0 1 16 19 31 38 45 56 67 73 77 77 86 99 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 22.73
Neeld, Mark 0 0 X 5 11 27 38 52 73 78 82 90 97 97 97 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 18.18
McKenna, Guy 0 0 10 35 50 56 60 66 74 78 82 88 97 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 13.64Lyon trails all the experienced coaches at the younger age points. This group will age quickly; I reckon he has one, maybe two more cracks before he's forced to turn to younger players.
Lyon awarded the second-fewest games to under-24's this year, and left St.Kilda in such a state that the Saints awarded the fewest. Lyon's modus operandi appears set in stone. Perhaps the Saints will be able to offload some veterans across the Nullarbor to assist Lyon's flag tilt in return for a couple of decent draft picks?
Lyon debuted Sheridan, Crozier, Sutcliffe, Neale and Spurr. The latter few playing many games. Spurr is mature age but the rest straight from the draft. Only 1x first year player missed out on debuting this year and that was Forster who barely cracked a WAFL league debut.
I'll give you Neale who played half the games, but Spurr's 25 and the other three played 8 games between them.
Compared with the under-23's for some other finalists...
Fremantle - Pearce (22 games), de Boer (21), Hill (20), Clarke (14), Suban (12), Neale (11), Roberton (10)
Adelaide - Dangerfield (22), Talia (22), Sloane (21), Petrenko (20), Wright (19), Smith (19), Walker (16), Shaw (12), Jaensch (10)
West Coast - Darling (22), Gaff (22), Selwood (22), Naitanui (20), Shuey (19), Brennan (14), Sheppard (12)
Collingwood - Beams (21), Sidebottom (21), Fasolo (21), Blair (20), Sinclair (18), Elliott (13), Seedsman (11)
North - Atley (22), Bastinac (22), Harper (22), MacMillan (22), Wright (20), Cunnington (19), Ziebell (16)
...Freo lost ground in the arms race for the future.
Lyon may even now be rueing the decision to play Clarke, and leave out Bradley with his stronger body and greater experience.
shenanigans
Cancelled
- Sep 10, 2012
- 146
- 51
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
You forgot Fyfe and Morabito bro
Limited the query to min. 10 games; obviously Fyfe (9) would've played more if available, and Walters (8) has obvious talent. Morabito's missed two full years and is now coming from a long way back. Lyon will have to cop a little bit of pain to integrate him back into the side.
It's not that the situation's bad, but Pav, McPharlin and Sandilands are cornerstones of the team and will be 30/31. When they finish up, Lyon will be in uncharted territory.
shenanigans
Cancelled
- Sep 10, 2012
- 146
- 51
- AFL Club
- Fremantle
Whatever, we've definitely got enough young talent coming through.
So if you include Fyfe, Morabito and Walters, then it doesn't look so bad, does it? Admittedly some of those other players probably wouldn't have played as many games if we had those 3 available all season. But you'd be looking at 6 x U/23 players who would have played under Lyon every week if possible, plus a few more with a dozen games or so. That stacks up well with those other lists above.
A coach can only use the talent available. If the youngsters aren't good enough to play, and the team is in the upper half of the ladder (as Lyon's teams usually have been), then you can't just play undeserving kids for the sake of it. Time will tell how the actual development of our WAFL-playing youth goes with Lyon on board. He isn't the only one responsible for player development either.
A coach can only use the talent available. If the youngsters aren't good enough to play, and the team is in the upper half of the ladder (as Lyon's teams usually have been), then you can't just play undeserving kids for the sake of it. Time will tell how the actual development of our WAFL-playing youth goes with Lyon on board. He isn't the only one responsible for player development either.
Lyon has this year done what seemed almost impossible, removed the flakiness from Freo. They keep coming all game now.
Crows were terrible against Sydney and got their selves together and up for last night. Good game and Freo had their chances in the last, just lost a few crucial contests and stuffed up a few skills. They are coming,
Crows were terrible against Sydney and got their selves together and up for last night. Good game and Freo had their chances in the last, just lost a few crucial contests and stuffed up a few skills. They are coming,
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