Ross Lyon - what a coach

[Stronzo]

You would have thought Freo had just won a premiership under Lyon the way some of their supporters are carrying on. The fact is Freo still haven't achieved more under Lyon that what we achieved under him. Lyon is a good coach but he still has his faults, he isn't perfect and St Kilda supporters know that as well as anyone.
There were mistakes he made when he was coaching at St Kilda that Saints supporters were critical of like his team selections, matchday coaching moves etc so we aren't just criticising him now because he left the way he did and we're bitter.

Freo supporters seem to take offence at any criticism of Lyon but he does make mistakes, leaving Silvagni on Walker for so long was a mistake in my opinion and many other people watching the game. I also thought Kepler Bradley should have played ahead of Zac Clarke too. Both those decisions or non decisions may well have cost Freo the game.

Yes those were mistakes, but Hill and Walters missing easy set shots were just as significant to us losing. You cannot boil down a game on the basis of 2 decisions by the coaches, it is decided by a range of factors and small moments.

No one is claiming that Lyon is infallible either.

 

[raffrox]

I don't know where you get that idea, Lyon left to go to Freo for more money so whether he won a premiership at St Kilda or not it probably wouldn't have changed his decision to leave.

Whatever helps you sleep at night but if you're right about money then I'm even more certain.

A premiership coach always gets a great deal. Ross would still be saints coach if they won the flag.

 

[Plugger35]

Then how do you explain the wins in qualifying finals, prelims, and several other tough wins v Geelong, Collingwood and the Dogs in home and away games?

We may have won finals against the likes of Collingwood and the Bulldogs in that time but they weren't anywhere near the quality of Geelong. Even our win against Geelong in the qualifying final in 2010 we were nearly overrun by Geelong again to lose the game after having a lead at half time, it was only that push in the back free kick to Gwilt that saved us from losing.

Lyon's game plan might be successful against lesser teams in finals but I'm still not convinced it can be successful against quality opposition in finals. It wasn't successful against Adelaide so there is no way in hell it would have been successful against Hawthorn or Sydney had Freo made it that far.

He meant that St Kilda wouldn't have stuffed around giving him an extension.

He was offered a contract by St Kilda on the terms that he asked for, he left to go to Freo for more money pure and simple and dealt with them behind St Kilda and his own management's backs to do it.

 

[raffrox]

He was offered a contract by St Kilda on the terms that he asked for, he left to go to Freo for more money pure and simple and dealt with them behind St Kilda and his own management's backs to do it.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Think you should face facts it was your players choking that cost you those two grand finals. Lyon did everything he could.

And I take it that therefore was the reason your team lost too was it, players choking. And while you accept that Lyin can do no wrong, you will not get to win a flag.

 

[Ron The Bear]

A premiership coach always gets a great deal. Ross would still be saints coach if they won the flag.

A premiership might've bought him some licence to regenerate St.Kilda's first 22, in which case we'd know more about his ability to win games with young players.

 

[Plugger35]

I'm not shedding any tears about Lyon leaving but that doesn't mean I like the underhanded way he went about it.

I'm more than happy with Watters as our coach and wouldn't swap him for Lyon if I had the choice and I know a lot of other Saints supporters feel the same way.

 

[The Speaker]

I'm not shedding any tears about Lyon leaving but that doesn't mean I like the underhanded way he went about it.

I'm more than happy with Watters as our coach and wouldn't swap him for Lyon if I had the choice and I know a lot of other Saints supporters feel the same way.

As you've said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

 

[mysainters]

matchday coaching moves

Have to stop you there.

Not sure you could call Ross Lyon a strong match day coach?

His strength is preperation, getting guys focused on their direct matchup, preplanned left field moves....Ross comes into his own the week leading into a game of football.

Not sure I'd say he is a great match day coach though, he moved Zac Dawson forward once in the last quarter v Carlton in I think it was 2009, he found space kicked a match winning goal. That was about the extent of it though, any other moves were evident at the opening bounce, and preconcieved.

Before I get accused of being 'bitter' I am saying that it's what makes him a good coach, no stone left unturned when preparing for a game of footy.

Backs his planning as well, not really one to make a move during a game.

 

[Black Diamond]

We may have won finals against the likes of Collingwood and the Bulldogs in that time but they weren't anywhere near the quality of Geelong. Even our win against Geelong in the qualifying final in 2010 we were nearly overrun by Geelong again to lose the game after having a lead at half time, it was only that push in the back free kick to Gwilt that saved us from losing.

You guys still pulled a huge half-time deficit earlier that season against Geelong (without Riewoldt) in the game Baker and Johnson were both suspended. You won plenty of matches at finals-like intensity.

You've also changed your tune on that qualifying final. I swear you posted recently that the umpires dragged the Cats back in to that game.

He was offered a contract by St Kilda on the terms that he asked for, he left to go to Freo for more money pure and simple and dealt with them behind St Kilda and his own management's backs to do it.

They still stuffed around and lets face it, would have offered him more had he won the 2010 flag.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Have to stop you there.

Not sure you could call Ross Lyon a strong match day coach?

His strength is preperation, getting guys focused on their direct matchup, preplanned left field moves....Ross comes into his own the week leading into a game of football.

Not sure I'd say he is a great match day coach though, he moved Zac Dawson forward once in the last quarter v Carlton in I think it was 2009, he found space kicked a match winning goal. That was about the extent of it though, any other moves were evident at the opening bounce, and preconcieved.

Before I get accused of being 'bitter' I am saying that it's what makes him a good coach, no stone left unturned when preparing for a game of footy.

Backs his planning as well, not really one to make a move during a game.

And as was shown against Adelaide when Walker was obviously taking Silvagni apart. Lyin couldn't or wouldn't make a move, any move.

 

[raffrox]

I'm not shedding any tears about Lyon leaving but that doesn't mean I like the underhanded way he went about it.

I'm more than happy with Watters as our coach and wouldn't swap him for Lyon if I had the choice and I know a lot of other Saints supporters feel the same way.

Then stop re-hashing basically the same post a few times a week.

 

[mysainters]

They still stuffed around and lets face it, would have offered him more had he won the 2010 flag.

Yes they did stuff him around, I'll admit to that.

However on reflection, I'm still of the belief he would of left anyway regardless.

He is evidently a career coach, after he himself declared it the 'end of an era' upon losing to the Swans the end of last year, you can't help but strongly feel his market value would of diminished had he stayed at the Saints?

He isn't stupid, he would of known that.

Tell me that the situation isn't untenable at times between heaps of coaches and administrations, especially Ross being such a strong character. I'd bank money on it being frosty many times over the journey, however it suited him this time to justify his exit by claiming irreconcilable differences.

I ask you this, what would Ross have commanded market wise had he stayed until the end of his contract?

I think you'll find he knew the answer to that.

 

[Black Diamond]

...

I'm sure he recognises his market value would have diminished. I also think a new coach is good for St Kilda. While it was executed rather poorly I think all parties are better off.

 

[The Speaker]

Have to stop you there.

Not sure you could call Ross Lyon a strong match day coach?

His strength is preperation, getting guys focused on their direct matchup, preplanned left field moves....Ross comes into his own the week leading into a game of football.

Not sure I'd say he is a great match day coach though, he moved Zac Dawson forward once in the last quarter v Carlton in I think it was 2009, he found space kicked a match winning goal. That was about the extent of it though, any other moves were evident at the opening bounce, and preconcieved.

Before I get accused of being 'bitter' I am saying that it's what makes him a good coach, no stone left unturned when preparing for a game of footy.

Backs his planning as well, not really one to make a move during a game.

Absolutely agree.

 

[mysainters]

I'm sure he recognises his market value would have diminished. I also think a new coach is good for St Kilda. While it was executed rather poorly I think all parties are better off.

I agree, he had mentally 'signed off' from the Saints well before tendering his resignation IMO.

 

[tacopavlich]

And I take it that therefore was the reason your team lost too was it, players choking. And while you accept that Lyin can do no wrong, you will not get to win a flag.

Yep, Our backline being fumbly and crucial missed shots cost us the game. Lyon made mistakes as well, it wasn't just one factor that caused us to lose, like Lyon being no good which is your ridiculous notion. Believe it or not no team or coach is perfect, Lyon isn't the exception and we don't claim so.

 

[PoopingHindi]

Lyon was getting stale at St Kilda. the players were getting stale under Lyon. he and the group had gone as far as they could, it was time for a change...he did the Saints a favour.

 

[Plugger35]

As you've said over and over and over and over and over and over and over and

Why don't you tell us all how Freo are in a hurry again? Yeah in a hurry to go on their end of season trip.

Not sure why you list Essendon as the team you support when you're clearly more of a Freo supporter and jump to their defence at any hint of criticism.

You guys still pulled a huge half-time deficit earlier that season against Geelong (without Riewoldt) in the game Baker and Johnson were both suspended. You won plenty of matches at finals-like intensity.

You've also changed your tune on that qualifying final. I swear you posted recently that the umpires dragged the Cats back in to that game.

The umpires were a factor in Geelong coming back in that 2010 Qualifying Final but so was the fact that our players were tiring after playing a frenetic first half. Geelong were finishing stronger but thankfully we just held on.

I would prefer to win by finishing stronger and kicking away to a winning score than grimly hanging on to defend a lead by pushing numbers back which is Lyon's usual tactics. It might win you some games but often comes unstuck against good teams that can score heavily like Geelong, Hawthorn or Collingwood.

Under Watters we have focused on playing more attacking footy and scoring more heavily with a bigger spread of goal kickers similar to the Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn game plans. Not only is that much better to watch as a spectator but will ultimately be a more successful game plan long term as those three teams have shown.

Lyon was getting stale at St Kilda. the players were getting stale under Lyon. he and the group had gone as far as they could, it was time for a change...he did the Saints a favour.

Yes I agree, Lyon leaving has done us a favour. Watters was the breath of fresh air we needed and has released the shackles by giving our players more license to attack while giving our younger players more opportunities. He has also got rid of the bubble we had under Lyon and made the club and players more accessible to the media and supporters.

 

[The Speaker]

Why don't you tell us all how Freo are in a hurry again? Yeah in a hurry to go on their end of season trip.

Not sure why you list Essendon as the team you support when you're clearly more of a Freo supporter and jump to their defence at any hint of criticism.

Nothing to defend Essendon for at the moment.

Also quite clearly said I didn't expect Fremantle to win the premiership this year.

Good to see that you also refused to address my comment directly. Hopefully that means you'll stop doing that now.

 

[Plugger35]

Nothing to defend Essendon for at the moment.

Also quite clearly said I didn't expect Fremantle to win the premiership this year.

Good to see that you also refused to address my comment directly. Hopefully that means you'll stop doing that now.

I was responding to the immature response from your fellow Freo supporter that insinuated that I was crying over Lyon's departure which isn't the case.

Being a one eyed Freo supporter you can't see the other side though and just prefer to attack me and my posts.

 

[The Speaker]

I was responding to the immature response from your fellow Freo supporter that insinuated that I was crying over Lyon's departure which isn't the case.

We already know this.

We know you're glad to have Watters.

We know you're glad not to have Lyon.

We know what upsets you is the way he left.

You don't need to keep telling us.

 

[Plugger35]

We already know this.

We know you're glad to have Watters.

We know you're glad not to have Lyon.

We know what upsets you is the way he left.

You don't need to keep telling us.

And you don't have to keep lecturing me on what I should and shouldn't post. My post was perfectly reasonable in response to what that Freo supporter posted and you decided to get your knickers in a knot over it.

You're not a moderator here and this isn't the Freo team board where everyone is going to say nice things about Freo and Ross Lyon all the time.

 

[The Speaker]

And you don't have to keep lecturing me on what I should and shouldn't post. My post was perfectly reasonable in response to what that Freo supporter posted and you decided to get your knickers in a knot over it.

Yep, righto, of course it was. Whatever you say.

It's not a topic that needs to be broached again.

 

[The Speaker]

It's hard to call on Harvey - the list is another year more mature than the list he had last year- he would have had a different game plan yes, but with all the players back that were out last year we just cannot say how he would have done.

That said I have never seen a team as well drilled as Freo in the EF - it was scary stuff

That's the key though.

Even if Harvey would've done well this year, if Lyon continues to take his team on the trajectory they've been travelling, Harvey's removal will have been worth it.