No Oppo Supporters Ross Lyon will NEVER win a premiership

[Banker]

I'm certain the Steves as well as Bond and Co stand behind him.

That is ludicrous.. Basing our own development on whoever wins the premiership?

It's going to happen as an Eagles win raises far too many questions about Ross's game plan. The media will rip into him and you know how clubs can react to media. Whereas Hawks win, most will accept that the Hawks had too much class/once in life time team.

 

[FreoRicci]

It's going to happen as an Eagles win raises far too many questions about Ross's game plan. The media will rip into him and you know how clubs can react to media. Whereas Hawks win, most will accept that the Hawks had too much class/once in life time team.

FFS, let's just wait and see. Hawks are the real deal. Didn't we smash Eagles earlier in the year. We were 7 straight against them before that loss. Eagles will have alot more respect next season then they had this season. So it'll be a different ball game in 2016.

 

[freo_leo29]

shut up dickhead

First post nailed it.
This is a stupid reactionary thread, our bottom line players are just not good enough aswell as some of our best players aging, not to forget injuries to Macca, johnno and fyfe that affected yet we managed to nearly pull off winning the prelim.
Anyone suggesting Weller, Langdon, Blakely etc shouldve been in the team are just plain wrong they are first years and not ready, Croz and Ap injured/out of form at the wrong time. None of the finalists left are carrying first year players in there teams, we have acknowledged the need to draft for accurate kicking and speed, however it will take time for it to come to fruition.

 

[meima]

we know that our main 22 aren't up to scratch against the hawks and have known that for some time.

you are correct in that those players you mentioned above wouldn't get a game at the hawks, would weller/langdon/blakely get a game with the hawks? we don't know because they weren't given a proper chance of replacing our bottom 5 players and showing what they can offer at AFL level.

Need some back up player to play at 70-80 Faye level so he can rest when he is not 90-100% right. Tab need to train as a swing men pre season with a Pearce on each other. Pav forward coach play on or retire a bit like j pod.

 

[Mudd]

First post nailed it.
This is a stupid reactionary thread, our bottom line players are just not good enough aswell as some of our best players aging, not to forget injuries to Macca, johnno and fyfe that affected yet we managed to nearly pull off winning the prelim.
Anyone suggesting Weller, Langdon, Blakely etc shouldve been in the team are just plain wrong they are first years and not ready, Croz and Ap injured/out of form at the wrong time. None of the finalists left are carrying first year players in there teams, we have acknowledged the need to draft for accurate kicking and speed, however it will take time for it to come to fruition.

whats the minimum number of years required before they will be ready? 3,4,5?

 

[Ripper]

whats the minimum number of years required before they will be ready? 3,4,5?

Usually 3. chucking them in the deep end is counterproductive.

Body's are not mature enough usually

 

[meima]

First post nailed it.
This is a stupid reactionary thread, our bottom line players are just not good enough aswell as some of our best players aging, not to forget injuries to Macca, johnno and fyfe that affected yet we managed to nearly pull off winning the prelim.
Anyone suggesting Weller, Langdon, Blakely etc shouldve been in the team are just plain wrong they are first years and not ready, Croz and Ap injured/out of form at the wrong time. None of the finalists left are carrying first year players in there teams, we have acknowledged the need to draft for accurate kicking and speed, however it will take time for it to come to fruition.

Will not win with Weller , Langdon and blakely this year but will improve them with 2016 season now this player is one year behind. Suban mzugu d.Pearce can't change their bad habit but young player can also Mitchell might be slow but his kicking with either foot is elite.

 

[freo_leo29]

whats the minimum number of years required before they will be ready? 3,4,5?

There is no minimum, they will learn from a full year at WAFL level, only the special players come on and have a huge impact in a top 4 team, Isaac Heeney springs to mind.
Blakely seems to have a mature body and may slot in nicely next year however it could take longer, training and application over the off-season and pre-season will help determine who is ready.
The interchanges are going to be lowered again next year so fitness into players is going to be another huge focus (not that it wasn't already) I would not be surprised to see no 1st year players debut next year due to the sub rule going however without knowing our picks this is just an assumption.

 

[coldlunch]

the reason we've been close enough to just fall short is because he's a great coach.
the reason we've just fallen short despite being so close is because we don't have a complete set of talent.

 

[FreoRicci]

There is no minimum, they will learn from a full year at WAFL level, only the special players come on and have a huge impact in a top 4 team, Isaac Heeney springs to mind.
Blakely seems to have a mature body and may slot in nicely next year however it could take longer, training and application over the off-season and pre-season will help determine who is ready.
The interchanges are going to be lowered again next year so fitness into players is going to be another huge focus (not that it wasn't already) I would not be surprised to see no 1st year players debut next year due to the sub rule going however without knowing our picks this is just an assumption.

Ballard perhaps? Been around since 2013, trained his buttside off and gets a spot on the senior list. Is 22 next year.

 

[Lach72]

I'd be looking at the below: trade Clarke/Mayne

Retire: McPharlin, Pav?
Delist: Crowley, Duffield, Sylvia, Duffy. Mzungu?
Morabito (rookie list?) Moller- re rookie

Upgrade: Ballard, Hughes

Brady Grey, Weller, Langdon, Blakely must be given opportunity. Even Hughes off half back.

Bennell/Jetta/McCarthy in hopefully

 

[FreoRicci]

I'd be looking at the below: trade Clarke/Mayne

Retire: McPharlin, Pav?
Delist: Crowley, Duffield, Sylvia, Duffy. Mzungu?
Morabito (rookie list?) Moller- re rookie

Upgrade: Ballard, Hughes

Add Clancee Pearce, Hannath and Silvagni to that list. But pretty much spot on

 

[freo_leo29]

Ballard perhaps? Been around since 2013, trained his buttside off and gets a spot on the senior list. Is 22 next year.

Brady Grey is ready too, AP in hopefully Apeness gets gametime when Tabs is out of form and pav needs a rest (second fiddle to Mccarthy in that case)

 

[freo_leo29]

Add Clancee Pearce, Hannath and Silvagni to that list. But pretty much spot on

Clancee is a strange one, when we were on fire at the beginning of the year he was a key component spreading out of the backline but as other teams improve throughout the year his output seems to go down. I would think he will see out his contract but then shopped around/delisted unless he shows solid full season form

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I think it is pretty clear from the presser that players who do not have skill will not be first picked next year. I think Ross alluded to Bennell when he talked about moving Fyfe forward when we get another mid.

I really enjoyed the presser. My favourite bits:

-Giving Sydney a whack over COLA
-Acknowledges that he and the coaching team need to get better
-We can't kick cricket scores because we don't have the forwards
-Really pleased with Alex Pearce
-It sounds like Langdon, Blakely and Weller (get stuffed you VFL scumbags we aren't trading him) will feature heavily in the team next year
-He wants players who can make better decisions, and who have better skills
-Fyfe to be captain eventually

 

[smokingjacket]

I hesitate to say this because I'm drunk and angry but I agree with the OP.

This team is perfectly set up for Rolyball. Huge midfielders, a dominant ruckman to give first advantage, strong contested ball team and an excellent defensive system and we still fall short.

We finished top in a canter but we were never close. The writing was on the wall earlier in the season.

Ross Lyon has taken us as far as this side can go. We've won our first trophy and we've earned the respect of the competition for our hard nosed sides that always can be counted on to turn up, but next year we aren't going to win the flag with Ross Lyon at the helm.

Worse than that I'm actually starting to wonder if we kept Harvey on with the old rebound game style and replaced Chris Scott as a game day tactician, whether we might have won a flag already considering the critical wasted transition years, changing over to Lyons game plan. We played our best footy under Ross when we still had the remnants of the attacking football DNA from the previous coaching staff mixed in with the new defensive focus.

Any argument about our success bringing new members to the club is void because the football is fukcing dire. Even as someone who appreciates a slower tactical style. And this is a club that is moving to Cockburn from its namesake location for the purpose of facilities and membership growth.

I'm willing to give him next year to see what he can do with a list that he's turned over but I hold no hope when our glaring skill deficiencies are still be addressed. Sheridan is the main change to this years team and he's replaced Duffield, an old and maybe soft player, but the sort of kick under pressure who would have made all the difference in transition from the back tonight instead of aimless switching around the back with no intention to move the ball forward with purpose.

We looked slow across the field, slow in execution and slow in our ability to read the game. That's the triumvirate of a coaching howler. It hurts because I honestly thought after our GF we were set for an era.

Ross Lyon's style is now better suited to a mid table team looking for consistency.

 

[Lach72]

I agree they are terrible. Not one A grader recruited since Fyfe. When Phil Smart was still with us.

What's Neale?

 

[smokingjacket]

the reason we've been close enough to just fall short is because he's a great coach.
the reason we've just fallen short despite being so close is because we don't have a complete set of talent.

Gunston was out out tonight and we got cut up by Ryan ****ing Schoenmakers.

Sydney should have beaten us with four of their best out.

I hate to be that guy but look at the mob up the road and see if that list has the quality that we do across the lines.

They play differently, we need to change too.

 

[Midnite65]

I think it is pretty clear from the presser that players who do not have skill will not be first picked next year. I think Ross alluded to Bennell when he talked about moving Fyfe forward when we get another mid.

I really enjoyed the presser. My favourite bits:

-Giving Sydney a whack over COLA
-Acknowledges that he and the coaching team need to get better
-We can't kick cricket scores because we don't have the forwards
-Really pleased with Alex Pearce
-It sounds like Langdon, Blakely and Weller (get stuffed you VFL scumbags we aren't trading him) will feature heavily in the team next year
-He wants players who can make better decisions, and who have better skills
-Fyfe to be captain eventually

How will Langdon, Blakely and Weller solve our forward line problems? Playing Fyfe forward may be ok but he is also our best clearance player so we will lose a lot in the middle.

 

[Lach72]

Gunston was out out tonight and we got cut up by Ryan ******* Schoenmakers.

Sydney should have beaten us with four of their best out.

I hate to be that guy but look at the mob up the road and see if that list has the quality that we do across the lines.

They play differently, we need to change too.

We have them equalled midfield, but they are better at the back and forward.

Watch the presser. There's a bit in there to consider.

 

[Lach72]

How will Langdon, Blakely and Weller solve our forward line problems? Playing Fyfe forward may be ok but he is also our best clearance player so we will lose a lot in the middle.

I think >50% of our issues are related to skilled ball movement.

A Harley Bennell would release Fyfe more

 

[smokingjacket]

We have them equalled midfield, but they are better at the back and forward.

Watch the presser. There's a bit in there to consider.

I have.

"Do you know what I mean?"

However we're far past them down back and in the midfield.

Up forward, granted is a different issue. I don't buy the issues with our forward line though. Taberner should have been persisted with if the be all was a second foil to Pavlich. It's more than that.

"They're a shootout team."

"Does that make sense?"

Even within games our ball movement can drop away dramatically. Why was the Sandi to Fyfe on the run ruck combination never replaced with another player? There are so many frustrating things about this side. I would say a desired trait of hardworking mediocrity when we have players with in the team capable of more.

As I said I'll give Ross time. For a WA team a home prelim and a second crack is always going to the best chance to win a flag so this year should be viewed in those terms. He's smart enough to adjust but he just tends to the conservative under pressure and I'm not sure that will get it done down the track.

 

[Lach72]

I have.

"Do you know what I mean?"

However we're far past them down back and in the midfield.

Up forward, granted is a different issue. I don't buy the issues with our forward line though. Taberner should have been persisted with if the be all was a second foil to Pavlich. It's more than that.

"They're a shootout team."

"Does that make sense?"

Even within games our ball movement can drop away dramatically. Why was the Sandi to Fyfe on the run ruck combination never replaced with another player? There are so many frustrating things about this side. I would say a desired trait of hardworking mediocrity when we have players with in the team capable of more.

As I said I'll give Ross time. For a WA team a home prelim and a second crack is always going to the best chance to win a flag so this year should be viewed in those terms. He's smart enough to adjust but he just tends to the conservative under pressure and I'm not sure that will get it done down the track.

We're not far past them in the midfield or the back at all.

As for Taberner he started the year well but too often we've seen what we got tonight...

Agree on the hardworking bit.

I'd be moving Mzungu and Suban out straight away.

Langdon, Grey, Weller and Blakely can get their spots.

Danyle? Same.

Hughes on to a half back flank? Sheridan on to the wing?
Bennell Jetta in?

If we get McCarthy he takes Mayne's spot. In pre-season if Pav goes around again, Apeness and Taberner play most of the games together

 

[smokingjacket]

We're not far past them in the midfield or the back at all.

As for Taberner he started the year well but too often we've seen what we got tonight...

Agree on the hardworking bit.

I'd be moving Mzungu and Suban out straight away.

Langdon, Grey, Weller and Blakely can get their spots.

Danyle? Same.

Hughes on to a half back flank? Sheridan on to the wing?
Bennell Jetta in?

If we get McCarthy he takes Mayne's spot. In pre-season if Pav goes around again, Apeness and Taberner play most of the games together

Their midfield is pissweak and reliant on taps. Priddis is their only real ball winner, lucky that he's a jet. There's a reason we normally crush them if Sandi has a good game.

Schofield is a hack. McGovern has been on one leg all year and I would argue is no better intercept mark than Ibbotson or Johnson or McPharlin. Hurn plays the ball out well from d50 like Duffield used to, Wellingham is Sutcliffe-ish. Sheppard, meh. Yeo goes alright but he's like Fyfe, they need him in the middle as much they do down back. Butler was going to be delisted at the start of the year.

I actually don't mind the mediocre players being that. Mzungu gave it a crack tonight and if the Ross Lyon brand is that we get an even spread of effort then there are worse things.

I'm more concerned about the fact that our best players don't seem to have the ability to go to another level within our current setup. Generally in good teams, the best players make their team mates look better. Since Fyfe fell off I haven;t seen any extra quality step up.

 

[Lach72]

You've under rated their players massively.