No Oppo Supporters Ross Lyon will NEVER win a premiership

[Merdel]

The thing that annoyed me the most was sitting 3 goals down all game and just knowing we couldnt come back from that. I much prefer an attacking game plan and used to hate watching the saints play under Ross. The game plan thrives on the mistakes of the opposition but the very best teams don't make mistakes

 

[Arcassius]

Technically, hawthorn score heaviest off turnovers - which is the definition of mistakes by the opposition.

 

[sproketman]

What's Neale?

A good player. But is he elite? I don't see him as a match winner in the vein of Fyfe, Mundy, Hill, Walters.

Even said its one player from five years. And we may as well have not participated in the 2010 and 2012 draft. Only draft years where Schwab traded picks for players were less fruitful.

 

[sproketman]

You've under rated their players massively.

Not really. We were all laughing at their mediocrity at the start of the year. Who is laughing now?

Simpson is simply a better coach than Lyon. Under more injury duress he had them playing better quality football.

Has Lyon fathomed yet that defence actually doesn't win premierships?

 

[Damos Ponchos]

RTB did say 'does that make sense?' about 5 times in the presser. Clearly our squad isnt there yet. Mzungu, D.Pearce, Dawson all need to be moved on IMO. Sheridan big question marks, Tabs make or break in 2016. Ross needs to tweak the game plan. Umps cost us bullshit first 2 goals but that wouldnt affect the result. People have every right to respectfully ask if Ross can win one... We are all heavily emotionally invested in this club and we all wanna see Freo hold the premiership cup aloft. Not an understatement this was our greatest chance to do so and we weren't good enough . Mccarthy and Bennell help no doubt but we need a clean out...

 

[aussieviking]

I believe he is a great coach .To get us another chance to reach a grand final is a great achievement. To be honest we a still short of quality players especially key position.Very few teams win the flag when they have to rely on small forwards to kick goals.Its great to have them but in big games you need effective key position players.

I was disappointed in Pav , Sandi etc. At no time did they get aggressive and try to physically intimidate Hawthorn.Time is fast running out and they needed to do something really special.I think many of our experienced players played with little aggression (don't want to miss a grand final by getting reported.) Guess what guys you're missing out anyway.

 

[leeloo]

Maybe we will, maybe we won't but I'm backing him in, no one jumps out as a replacement, he has two years left and I am sick of changing coaches every two seconds.

Big changes next year, I reckon.

Hopefully starting with showing Sumich the door. Reckon Kirk will move on as well.

And yep, Lyon needs to change and I believe over the last couple of years he has tweaked a few things with the game plan and himself but he needs to get a bit more radical.

At the start of this year, the so called experts had us in the bottom of the top eight and some even said we could go out. Well, we played off in a prelim.

 

[Steinfreo]

I've always thought that our ages brackets have been slightly off. Only by a year or to. You put our young players from this year with our old guys from 2013 and you get a team that wins a premiership I think.

I felt angry at Ross last night but after sleeping on it Im convinced it the list for the most part. I dont think we can refresh it enough while Fyfe and co are in their primes unless we bottom out. Like Ross said we dont have 1 mill extra in our cap to go buy a gun fwd. We are going to have to be really clever at the trade table if we dont bottom out and just pick the best fwd in a draft.

Ross is keen to find a way and I cant ask for more than that.

 

[blue shark]

All the talk on our board about trading players, delistings, but who honestly believes that we have a coaching group that can develop, fast track players, identify
our weaknesses, and improve from 2013?
Off the field is where our trading should be a priority, Messiah trades will only glaze over the cracks, which will be exposed again under intense pressure.
We also need a contingency plan to replace Lyon, when his contract runs out, someone out of the Clarkson model, or similar philosophy.
Can we get back Justin Longmuir from the eagles? It honestly breaks my heart seeing him with the slime, same with McGovern, Yeo.

 

[purplerunsdeep]

Fact is Lyon has his limitations but what he got out of that list is actually amazing. How many guys on our team could walk into any other top 4 side? Little I would expect

Our trading has seriously under performed for the past 3 years and bondy needs a massive off season to prove he will be around in 2017.

 

[sproketman]

Yes the talent situation isn't great, but wtf has Lyon done to remedy it? He didn't pick a single debutant against that block of weaker opposition mid season when he had the chance to. Meanwhile someone like Suban played every single game, a quarter of which either as sub or subbed off.

Where has the accountability been for players who don't cut the mustard? That Freo team was closer to the 2013 GF side than Hawthorn's was.

Another wasted year where the depth of the playing list isn't developed and we frustratedly watch the same duds fail us again. Why does anyone think it will change next year?

 

[darkshines]

Ridiculous thread.

It was absurd to think we were only a few 'moments' away from a GF - watching that game the difference in skill and thinking ability of the two teams was immense. We were just not in the same ballpark.

Their players move like they're in a video game - collectively controlled and organised by a single mind, constant motion.

And their players kick with precision. Can you imagine our clanger count if we attempted the uncontested possessions they do?

Ross is a genius for getting this list to contend. Do you REALLY think any other coach would get a team with a single geriatric key forward into a prelim? The first rounder drafting failures missing from this 22 really kill us.

Thankfully now we have no option but to trade picks. Saves us from blowing them.

I'm proud of the team and coaches for pure effort getting us as close as we did.

 

[Steinfreo]

Ridiculous thread.

It was absurd to think we were only a few 'moments' away from a GF - watching that game the difference in skill and thinking ability of the two teams was immense. We were just not in the same ballpark.

Their players move like they're in a video game - collectively controlled and organised by a single mind, constant motion.

And their players kick with precision. Can you imagine our clanger count if we attempted the uncontested possessions they do?

Ross is a genius for getting this list to contend. Do you REALLY think any other coach would get a team with a single geriatric key forward into a prelim? The first rounder drafting failures missing from this 22 really kill us.

Thankfully now we have no option but to trade picks. Saves us from blowing them.

I'm proud of the team and coaches for pure effort getting us as close as we did.

I think there is an argument that the Ross gameplan allows for that.

 

[Mr Peabody]

 

[aussieviking]

Fact is Lyon has his limitations but what he got out of that list is actually amazing. How many guys on our team could walk into any other top 4 side? Little I would expect

Our trading has seriously under performed for the past 3 years and bondy needs a massive off season to prove he will be around in 2017.

I agree with your comment......People say we should play more attacking but with the players we have we would struggle to play an attacking game plan. Perhaps with the talent we have coming in with Weller Langdon Crozier etc our skill level will improve and if Apeness Tabenar and Pearce continue to develop Ross can gradually become a more attacking coach.

 

[koshari]

I believe he is a great coach .To get us another chance to reach a grand final is a great achievement. To be honest we a still short of quality players especially key position.Very few teams win the flag when they have to rely on small forwards to kick goals.Its great to have them but in big games you need effective key position players.

I was disappointed in Pav , Sandi etc. At no time did they get aggressive and try to physically intimidate Hawthorn.Time is fast running out and they needed to do something really special.I think many of our experienced players played with little aggression (don't want to miss a grand final by getting reported.) Guess what guys you're missing out anyway.

good post, Pav is an out and out champ but his best is behind him, little harsh to single him and sandy out who bleed purple but imo your right on the money that you still need some more quality cattle.

 

[wild side]

I agree with your comment......People say we should play more attacking but with the players we have we would struggle to play an attacking game plan. Perhaps with the talent we have coming in with Weller Langdon Crozier etc our skill level will improve and if Apeness Tabenar and Pearce continue to develop Ross can gradually become a more attacking coach.

There were a couple of times last night Mundy was pleading for it and he was heading towards the corridor. We switched, or went down the line. We need to go down the middle to a Mundy or Hill more often. We need to take the game on more imo.

 

[sproketman]

I'd sack Brad Lloyd.

Yes.

Worse than that I'm actually starting to wonder if we kept Harvey on with the old rebound game style and replaced Chris Scott as a game day tactician, whether we might have won a flag already considering the critical wasted transition years, changing over to Lyons game plan. We played our best footy under Ross when we still had the remnants of the attacking football DNA from the previous coaching staff mixed in with the new defensive focus.

Not sure about that, but all his talk about finding two extra goals per game was rubbish. This was our worst season under him for scoring. People will blame the weather, Pav's age, lack of second options in the forward line, etc, but the fact is this was worse than 2013 when we had Pav missing for half the season and not even Taberner to call upon.

Hawks forward line last night was hardly the stuff of fearsome tall forwards. Roughy is a champ but has been in as good form as Pav, and Schoenmakers is hardly what you'd call a top liner. Gunston is OK, but nowhere near the kind of forward that gets opposition coaches panicking on their own.

Hawks generate a high volume of score regardless of who plays, we fret on whether Ballantyne is available. Their system is better, Freo's is poor.

Any argument about our success bringing new members to the club is void because the football is fukcing dire. Even as someone who appreciates a slower tactical style.

The quality of football from Freo this season has been the worst to watch Freo for some time. We got the wins but nothing in their method dispelled the doubts that we weren't good enough. Some of those wins (Gold Coast, Brisbane, GWS) were as bad to watch as losses. The losses we did have in the second half of the season were all against finals contenders. The loss against North was particularly bad in and of itself - as bad as any Harvey era loss.

Many don't seem to understand the fundamental philosophy behind Rolyball (as you termed it). Its about denying the opposition space both at the contest and forward of the ball. This works well against rubbish teams. He picks highly experienced and therefore fittest possible teams to achieve this. Everything is constructed around ensuring the opposition can't play at their best. That's great, it gets you wins, but where is the striving to turn Freo into the best? We're simply the football team equivalent of a tagger.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

I agree with your comment......People say we should play more attacking but with the players we have we would struggle to play an attacking game plan. Perhaps with the talent we have coming in with Weller Langdon Crozier etc our skill level will improve and if Apeness Tabenar and Pearce continue to develop Ross can gradually become a more attacking coach.

At the game last night we would often have players free, and we would try and move the ball to them so we could attack, and we were not able to hit the target. We look great when the ball is in Hill's hands because he makes good decisions and executes with good skills.

I disagree with Ross about Tabs. He had an opportunity last night to make his presence known, but he doesn't have the aggression to play forward. He didn't even chase in one contest and he made one tackle all night: lol

 

[Scham]

At the game last night we would often have players free, and we would try and move the ball to them so we could attack, and we were not able to hit the target. We look great when the ball is in Hill's hands because he makes good decisions and executes with good skills.

I disagree with Ross about Tabs. He had an opportunity last night to make his presence known, but he doesn't have the aggression to play forward. He didn't even chase in one contest and he made one tackle all night: lol

Tabener's not going to make it.
He's clearly depth at best. Very soft, no football brain and low skilled.

 

[Freo Blood]

Well he has 2 more years to show if he can tweak his style.
With the cattle available he did an awesome job, but.... He did not realy develop any new players during the mid part of the year and at the end of the year we r left with same bottom end plodders failing to get it done.
I also think his style is too mentally and physically taxing. It shows late in games and seasons.
Hope 2016 gives us our 2013 draft talls and our 2014 draft mids coming together plus McCarthy plus bennell plus Ross tweaking his style we'll still be near top four.

 

[Frank J Moose]

Anyone that thinks Ross shouldn't be coach should go and watch his presser.

All of the statements all of us make about why we lose he knows. He knows we need tall forwards and elite kickers-decision makers. Ross mentioned all the ones we tried for (and that we didn't have 1mill extra to get them)

And all the crsp about playing youth it takes 4 seasons to be competent (unless you are top 5 talent). Hawks develop players at Box Hill longer than anyone, and only now are our youth playing together in a development regime that is at the required level. There were 6 players drafted 2011 or later on the park. 4 of ours and 2 Hawks.

You can only have a game plan that your cattle allow.

 

[wild side]

Ross is the reason we are where we are. He's the best coach we've had, and he's got 2 years to get that flag. I agree Bond and Lloyd should be under the most pressure.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

We could have beaten the Hawks last night if we had turned in a reasonable performance. We played like we did from round ~10 onwards. The Hawks really didn't do anything spectacular. Lake looked absolutely cooked, and the rest of the team looked fatigued. Yet, even then we looked lifeless and without energy.

Ross Lyon's biggest failure this year was not being able to turn around our form slump. He had to make changes and he didn't. We needed to play our youngsters when our old heads looked tired because they bring energy and excitement to the team.

 

[Lach72]

Grabs popcorn

Take a hike