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We did you a favour right? We took the shitest coach in the AFL off your hands right?
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AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
No Oppo Supporters Ross Lyon will NEVER win a premiership
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Watched the press conference and I thought he was honest & articulated what needs improving, and it's basically what we've all said in here. So he knows.
Sandilands, Fyfe, Mundy & Neale will still be our starting center square quarter next year. Plus Hill on a wing.
All of Johnno, Ibbotson, Spurr & A Pearce will ensure our back six are hard to score against again.
Walters will continue to be a gun & Ballas will be Ballas.
Skillful users + forwards, our usual suspect ... Sheridan, Sutcliffe, Langdon & Weller just have to be able to step up and be developed to move the ball like Birchall, Suckling, Duryea & co.
Sandilands, Fyfe, Mundy & Neale will still be our starting center square quarter next year. Plus Hill on a wing.
All of Johnno, Ibbotson, Spurr & A Pearce will ensure our back six are hard to score against again.
Walters will continue to be a gun & Ballas will be Ballas.
Skillful users + forwards, our usual suspect ... Sheridan, Sutcliffe, Langdon & Weller just have to be able to step up and be developed to move the ball like Birchall, Suckling, Duryea & co.
There is a lot of good stuff in this thread and the argument will continue to rage because its not black & white.
There is a little bit of truth in what everyone says.
At the end of the day the one thing all the football pundits I heard on TV and radio yesterday agreed on was that Freo's bottom 6 are miles off the Hawks and that Hawthorns superior kicking skills won that game. Pretty hard to disagree with that.
Lyon knows our areas of weakness and will be working hard to improve, we need more cattle etc.
The thing I keep coming back to in my head though is all that was obvious earlier in the year, we could have fast tracked Weller.
DeBoer played a good game last night but how many times did he kick it over someones head going inside 50?
We knew what was wrong, why didn't we fix it or at least try?
And why the hell wasn't Barlow in the centre last night at least some of the time? The guy would have killed himself trying to win it.
It just feels like such a hollow year where so much was good but in the end we failed trying to cling on to the familiar. I would rather have failed spectacularly. Thats just my opinion, I'm not trying to claim it as fact or truth.
There is a little bit of truth in what everyone says.
At the end of the day the one thing all the football pundits I heard on TV and radio yesterday agreed on was that Freo's bottom 6 are miles off the Hawks and that Hawthorns superior kicking skills won that game. Pretty hard to disagree with that.
Lyon knows our areas of weakness and will be working hard to improve, we need more cattle etc.
The thing I keep coming back to in my head though is all that was obvious earlier in the year, we could have fast tracked Weller.
DeBoer played a good game last night but how many times did he kick it over someones head going inside 50?
We knew what was wrong, why didn't we fix it or at least try?
And why the hell wasn't Barlow in the centre last night at least some of the time? The guy would have killed himself trying to win it.
It just feels like such a hollow year where so much was good but in the end we failed trying to cling on to the familiar. I would rather have failed spectacularly. Thats just my opinion, I'm not trying to claim it as fact or truth.
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Agreed. Make no mistake, we will be contending next year. The Hawks looked cooked after the game. Lake will need a wheelchair to play on next year.
At the start of the year I thought we would be a top 8 team and perhaps a chance of the top 4. Somehow Ross managed to get our team to win a minor premiership. I think Ross can definitely win us a GF however we should be realistic and know we haven't got the cattle to kick large scores. Pav is not going to kick us 50-60 goals a year anymore, Tabs has question marks still and we rely on Walters too much.
Personally I thought we played well last night and could have won it - two costly errors at the end - Fyfe playing on one leg - Pavlich corked - Johnson not fit - and some rub of the green worked against us. And Hawthorn were accurate - they hit every goal.
If we can trade for a quality forward then we will be up there again next year.
Personally I thought we played well last night and could have won it - two costly errors at the end - Fyfe playing on one leg - Pavlich corked - Johnson not fit - and some rub of the green worked against us. And Hawthorn were accurate - they hit every goal.
If we can trade for a quality forward then we will be up there again next year.
- Nov 13, 2008
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I saw the question and had to write something as a person who has lived in freo for 30 years....I had a look at your recruiting in the last 5 years and it's been patchy. Rookies have been good but otherwise..... Also you cant judge Ross until you give him the cattle
btw it's awfully quiet out front on a street that normally has a lot of traffic.... i dont think people want to go out today.
btw it's awfully quiet out front on a street that normally has a lot of traffic.... i dont think people want to go out today.
It is easy to criticise Ross, so I might as well add to it...
The Ross philosophy seems to be to reward effort. There is no denying the effort our blokes put in, and they do it for Ross. But is does seem that effort is only part of the story, and skills really do matter. Poor skills cannot always be overcome through effort. Hawthorn's better skills won them the game, our lack of skills at critical times cost us. Doesn't even have to be a full-blown fumble or missed target, just those ones where a bloke can't pick it up cleanly first touch, or a handpass goes too high or too low so the receiver has to search for it - those things that take an extra second or two, and the defence closes in and the moment is lost. We have too many of those type of players in our bottom half of the team. Either they need to do a hell of a lot of skills work over the off-season, or we bring in skilled young players and teach them the required level of effort. We need both effort and skills.
The Ross philosophy seems to be to reward effort. There is no denying the effort our blokes put in, and they do it for Ross. But is does seem that effort is only part of the story, and skills really do matter. Poor skills cannot always be overcome through effort. Hawthorn's better skills won them the game, our lack of skills at critical times cost us. Doesn't even have to be a full-blown fumble or missed target, just those ones where a bloke can't pick it up cleanly first touch, or a handpass goes too high or too low so the receiver has to search for it - those things that take an extra second or two, and the defence closes in and the moment is lost. We have too many of those type of players in our bottom half of the team. Either they need to do a hell of a lot of skills work over the off-season, or we bring in skilled young players and teach them the required level of effort. We need both effort and skills.
He's done amazing things for a football club that was punctuated by mediocrity for the first 15 years of its existence, but now I have to agree the pressure is definitely on.
Lyon needs to show an adaptability and flexibility that hasn't exactly been a hallmark of his years with us. Granted he hasn't been handed much new talent in the way of our draft picks in recent years (Bond also has massive question marks IMO, even more so than Lyon), but the constant persistence with the likes of Suban, De Boer, Mzungu etc has ended up hurting us more than helping. The honest role players will win you games throughout the season, but over the last 4 years, it's also been pretty much proved that they'll give you nothing when the heat is on.
Most know he has an infatuation with role players, but another failed finals campaign surely has to signal to him that things need to change. Weller, Langdon, Crozier and Blakely might end up all being useless themselves, but they need to be given more of a shot than a token appearance at the end of the season, especially since they can all use the ball so well. A well-skilled player can be trained on the defensive aspects of the game (and there'd be no better coach than Lyon to do that), but it's clearly a lot more difficult to turn foot-soldiers into A-graders who use the ball well and make good decisions.
We've done the same thing for the last 3 years and haven't been successful, so let's try again with something new. Lyon deserves a shot at reinventing Freo, and himself, rather than simply being cast aside. If we're in the same position next year having made the finals but failed with the same game plan and same bottom 6, he should be moved on.
Lyon needs to show an adaptability and flexibility that hasn't exactly been a hallmark of his years with us. Granted he hasn't been handed much new talent in the way of our draft picks in recent years (Bond also has massive question marks IMO, even more so than Lyon), but the constant persistence with the likes of Suban, De Boer, Mzungu etc has ended up hurting us more than helping. The honest role players will win you games throughout the season, but over the last 4 years, it's also been pretty much proved that they'll give you nothing when the heat is on.
Most know he has an infatuation with role players, but another failed finals campaign surely has to signal to him that things need to change. Weller, Langdon, Crozier and Blakely might end up all being useless themselves, but they need to be given more of a shot than a token appearance at the end of the season, especially since they can all use the ball so well. A well-skilled player can be trained on the defensive aspects of the game (and there'd be no better coach than Lyon to do that), but it's clearly a lot more difficult to turn foot-soldiers into A-graders who use the ball well and make good decisions.
We've done the same thing for the last 3 years and haven't been successful, so let's try again with something new. Lyon deserves a shot at reinventing Freo, and himself, rather than simply being cast aside. If we're in the same position next year having made the finals but failed with the same game plan and same bottom 6, he should be moved on.
FastLane
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Thread title should be :
'Ross Lyon will never win a Premiership...with Zac Dawson in the team.'
Zac must have some Reiwoldt-esque pics of Ross somewhere.
Geez I'm disappointed- great effort- but just not in the same class as Hawks- cheating umps didnt exactly help.
It's going to be bloody hard to stay up top with all the younger teams on the move
'Ross Lyon will never win a Premiership...with Zac Dawson in the team.'
Zac must have some Reiwoldt-esque pics of Ross somewhere.
Geez I'm disappointed- great effort- but just not in the same class as Hawks- cheating umps didnt exactly help.
It's going to be bloody hard to stay up top with all the younger teams on the move
I don't know, I picture him as an Audi driver myself.
Hope that popcorn goes with missing the finals again next year. You're going nowhere fast.
We went into the match (against one of the greatest all time teams) with our three most important players injured or not playing. We did the best we could and Ross Lyon and the coaching department we're superb not just last night but all season. Our list isn't a top 4 team guys, I doubt Clarkson could get Freo to even make the 8.
Please get off it Ross Lyon haters. Ross gave them deep half back touches and stopped transition goals and stopped the chance of them getting goals out the back + limited inside 50 marks which we needed with McPharlin out. With the cattle and quality we had last night it was a great performance. We lost the game because we couldn't maintain possession and capitalise on our inside dominance. Skill and quality issue only, we played to our strengths but just weren't good enough.
2013 Top 4 and grand final
2014 Top 4 and out in straight sets but with vital players injured.
2015 finished on top and just missed out of the GF with vital players injured.
This thread title is embarrassing. I'm done with BigFooty.
Please get off it Ross Lyon haters. Ross gave them deep half back touches and stopped transition goals and stopped the chance of them getting goals out the back + limited inside 50 marks which we needed with McPharlin out. With the cattle and quality we had last night it was a great performance. We lost the game because we couldn't maintain possession and capitalise on our inside dominance. Skill and quality issue only, we played to our strengths but just weren't good enough.
2013 Top 4 and grand final
2014 Top 4 and out in straight sets but with vital players injured.
2015 finished on top and just missed out of the GF with vital players injured.
This thread title is embarrassing. I'm done with BigFooty.
Agree PurpleWizard .. I don't normally write in here but have to say that I am proud of our team .. they did not give up last night and were in the game until we made a couple of errors. Next year we will see more games into the youngsters and again be knocking on the top 4. If we can get some more cattle and develop our players then we can be playing in finals for many more years and hopefully get a GF or 2.
Have to be optimistic
Have to be optimistic
- Jan 14, 2008
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We saw the young kids get a shot against Port and they were blown of the park.Its not hard to understand they were not ready this year but with another pre season under their belts who knows.
Banker
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lol, one tank game, yep fair enough assessment.
With Sheridan dropping the mark, I'm sure Ross must be cursing why he didn't play an experienced player.
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you can't judge the WAFL side that played against Port.
The young guys needed to come into the real 22 throughout the year to see how they fit into structures, giving them a quarter or two doesn't cut it.
sproketman
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Do you read the language you are using? It's all about the opposition being stopped. Where is the talk about Freo being the best?
Everything is built around stopping the opposition playing their best. That means we drop to the level of crap clubs, resulting in eyesores of footy against GWS or Gold Coast like this year.
McPharlin missing? The guy played one finals series for the past four years and will never play again.
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So Grey,Blakely,Langdon etc didn't try and tanked against Port.Get of it and yes the pressure got to Sheridan as a young player .Imagine if all the kids played in all that pressure.
Banker
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Yet the Eagles gave them an absolute smashing and everyone on here were saying the Hawks played rubbish.
Sorry but our game plan needs to be tweaked because our type of pressure doesn't cut it. Elite pressure should be stolen from the Hawks plan, just like the Eagles and Richmond have done.
As to our list not been top 4 that really is a myth that is doing the rounds, we have an elite midfield in the likes of Fyfe/Mundy/Neale/Hill/Sandi and our defence is decent.
To say Clarkson wouldn't get us into the 8, is ridiculous. Are we forgetting Mark Harvey a complete moron of a coach, lead us to finals and thats with him telling our players we suck playing away from home.
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They all had a full season for Peel and not to many of them showed enough to play in the Freo 22.They weren't ready,don't know why that is hard to understand.
Banker
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To access players on a game that was an absolute tank, is a joke.
Sheridan shouldn't have being playing in defence, we seen it all year he isn't comfortable there and that drop mark was the fault of Ross persistence to not play him in the midfield instead of his favourites.
- Apr 21, 2014
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Reactionary thread, obviously.
I remain firmly convinced that our issues are more a list problem than a coaching problem. Ross is clearly in the top echelon of coaches in the AFL, and anyone who watches his pressers should realise that he is very aware of the issues preventing the team from getting the job done.
Despite that, we have been extremely successful the last 4 years on the back of a list with perhaps less quality depth, star power and more obvious holes than those we have come up against. Injuries and bad luck at the wrong time doesn't help. That's not a cop out, it's a simple fact of any sport. Ask the Swans about it.
Criticisms about playing plodders and players like Dawson lack substance in the context of the list. Who are they replaced with? Even Clarkson shies away from playing 1st year players in finals - he has gone on record to say that re: Jed Anderson in 2013. It's easy to say that Pearce could have played full back, yet he is still very underdeveloped and vulnerable in a one on one. Would we have been happy if that had been identified and Hale or Roughead were plonked in the goal square with him? The relative foot skills of the two sides last night should be enough to convince anyone it is a list issue. It is all well and good to say 'there needs to be accountability' but you run straight back into the same issue; when a player is 'made accountable' for poor skills, who is he replaced with?
Ultimately if one calls for Ross to be replaced, you should also proffer with who. Questions should be asked given our finals failures. However, when we have a coach who has a proven track record and is clearly aware of the issues that have prevented us going further, I don't see a convincing argument to remove him in the face of other, more important, issues.
I remain firmly convinced that our issues are more a list problem than a coaching problem. Ross is clearly in the top echelon of coaches in the AFL, and anyone who watches his pressers should realise that he is very aware of the issues preventing the team from getting the job done.
Despite that, we have been extremely successful the last 4 years on the back of a list with perhaps less quality depth, star power and more obvious holes than those we have come up against. Injuries and bad luck at the wrong time doesn't help. That's not a cop out, it's a simple fact of any sport. Ask the Swans about it.
Criticisms about playing plodders and players like Dawson lack substance in the context of the list. Who are they replaced with? Even Clarkson shies away from playing 1st year players in finals - he has gone on record to say that re: Jed Anderson in 2013. It's easy to say that Pearce could have played full back, yet he is still very underdeveloped and vulnerable in a one on one. Would we have been happy if that had been identified and Hale or Roughead were plonked in the goal square with him? The relative foot skills of the two sides last night should be enough to convince anyone it is a list issue. It is all well and good to say 'there needs to be accountability' but you run straight back into the same issue; when a player is 'made accountable' for poor skills, who is he replaced with?
Ultimately if one calls for Ross to be replaced, you should also proffer with who. Questions should be asked given our finals failures. However, when we have a coach who has a proven track record and is clearly aware of the issues that have prevented us going further, I don't see a convincing argument to remove him in the face of other, more important, issues.
I know what you're saying. Only Ross Lyon would have got this team into the minor premiership, Scott Watters (or similar approved) would barely have scraped into 8th.
But we need to be realistic about where we can improve for next year. It's not hating on Ross Lyon to identify where our current weaknesses are. Ultimately, last night we joined 14 other AFL teams in the "another year wasted" group.
I didn't want to write a long post I'm busy mourning. I mentioned our inside game in my post and that's our strength and gameplan. We killed them in there. We got the first touch so many times but didn't have the quality on the outside to move the ball from the inside to the outside then to the forward line.
How many times did we over handball inside, or miss a target and turn over?
How many times did we win the clearance just to miss the half forward target/ boundary line.
If we had quality at half forward to make a contest or take a mark we would have won the match. Tabs was vital and failed. If we take that mark at half forward, the game is then on our terms, we are able to lock the ball in and hopefully get repeat entries.
- Jan 14, 2008
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Lyon's record in his tenure with Freo is top 8 with a win at the MCG in a semi in his first year,GF appearance and a win in Geelong against the odds and 3 top 4 finishes.Not a bad record with a so called dodgy game plan.Only 2 sides have a better record in the last 4 years and they just happen to unfortunately have had better talented lists .
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