Autopsy Round 1, 2024: Geelong v St.Kilda *COLLARD, WILSON DEBUT*

[Saint Kidding]

Said it a million times, we're a glorified bush league. We act like the attention starved little brother of the NFL. Our umpiring and score review system are two of the most amateurish things I've seen in world sport.

I think the AFL umpires department needs a massive overhaul. It is a cronies club with poor professionalism and low standards. Unlike clubs who continually strive to improve their player list to up their game, the umpires department is happy to roll out the same sub-standard weak performers year in, year out. Some have blatant biases against/for certain clubs, St Kilda isn't the only club that experiences this, but the drive isn't there to bring in new talent and raise the bar. Once an ump is in the club they are bullet proof.

Evidence: Ray Chamberlain. I don't dislike Ray. I don't believe he has a problem with bias, although he does like to pull out 'that' decision at a crucial moment in a game. He is one of the club.
Ray has developed a bad back that is exacerbated by bouncing the ball. As a result the AFL in it's wisdom have made an individual specific change to the rules of the game just to accommodate this one bloke. When Ray umpires he doesn't have to bounce the ball, he throws it up instead. It's outrageous! Would the AFL change the rules for an individual player to keep him in the game? You'd think not. Player can't play? It's hang up the boots time.

Umpires didn't cost us the game, there a plenty of flaws we need to work on, and we will. Time for the umpires department to work on their flaws too. It's a blight on the game.

 

[Saint Watto]

Disappointed? Of course; every loss brings a level of disappointment.

People were far too quick to write off Geelong simply because of their aging list. But that list won a flag a year and a half ago and were flag favourites again 12 months ago. They have virtually no injuries meaning all their players have completed their respective pre seasons.

An excellent summary there Doc.........you summed things up perfectly.

I'm sitting here in the cold of day,amazed that despite so much going wrong last night,we were a point down with 1 min 50 to go.

Glass half full for me.

 

[ScrappyDo]

This is notoriously the hardest trip in football, combined with the opening of the stand made it an extremely difficult round 1 match.

I'm also disappointed as always with a loss but seriously what is with the melts? We played nowhere near our best football, and in the patches we played our brand we looked a way better side. Yet we were up to necks in this.

We really should've been up going into 3/4 time after keeping them goalless, just fluffed multiple chances.

The ground definitely didn't allow us to run and carry like we wanted.

Everyone shouldn't hit the panic button yet, that is a long way away. Unless we lose to Essendon and Gresham kicks 5.

On Pixel 7 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I don't think anyone is hitting the panic button, it's just venting after a very disappointing loss which is what we're here for.
Round 1, probably the hardest road trip along with the Gabba. Played lot's of youth whilst missing Sincs, Jweb and Crouch clearly under done. Still, it wasn't good.
Everyone will be back on the horse by Monday.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I think the AFL umpires department needs a massive overhaul. It is a cronies club with poor professionalism and low standards. Unlike clubs who continually strive to improve their player list to up their game, the umpires department is happy to roll out the same sub-standard weak performers year in, year out. Some have blatant biases against/for certain clubs, St Kilda isn't the only club that experiences this, but the drive isn't there to bring in new talent and raise the bar. Once an ump is in the club they are bullet proof.

This weekend the umps have not been great over the weekend in general.

 

[cartwright]

Anatomy of a Joke.

Starting three months ago, I started posting in the preview then game threads about Dangerfield.
And the issues with his shoulders.
W.o.E issues I called it.
Raising doubts as to his fitness.

Proof that Sunny is prepared to play the long game for a laugh.

It wasn’t a brilliant joke, more amusing. Heh, what can you do?

However it relied on another poster to actually ask the question: what is W.o.E?

And……….

No one did.

For the entire three months.

Which was initially frustrating, then extremely amusing.

I can only assume that this was because: no one reads my posts, or no one takes any interest in them, or everyone understood the joke, or everyone knows what W.o.E is.

Or, and I think this is the case, no one was game enough to ask the question and reveal their ignorance about W.o.E.

Well done everyone for playing, you have given me three months of grand amusement.

I salute you.

You surpassed my own W.o.E. when toying around with this idea.

Sooo what’s W.o.E

 

[gringo2011]

It's fair to say we cost ourselves this one, but that's doesn't excuse the bloody appalling umpiring. They really are a blight on the game now days.

Bad moves from the coaching staff were that we were very unprepared for that ground, and Jones probably should have been the sub. I feel very sorry for Lance this morning, however l can't criticize putting games into the kids asap coz we really need it.

Both Higgo and King need to play higher up the ground which was already clear last year.
Sincs and Butler seem basically irreplaceable for us at the moment and Jweb's absence was also felt which is a bit of worry. Not sold on Bonner after that either. Perhaps like the Dee's found out with JB, we can see why he was moved on.
Ro was dreadful in the ruck for most of the game but others obviously saw something l didn't.

The few positives were Henry, Wilson, Windy and Cordy. Not having the heart in mouth feeling whenever Doogs is involved is well worth whatever differences between the two.

Another development year it is.

Marshall was his usual self, plays as an extra mid but loses hit outs. .

 

[Oh When the Saints]

We had the most players under 23 of any team in the competition this week. Worth reflecting on what that means vs expectations.

The ground size killed us, we constantly looked for space up the wings and got stuck in congestion where the Cats had the edge.

Play that game at Marvel or the G and we win relatively well. Maybe no excuse but there's a reason the Cats have won 95% of their games there for 15 years.

 

[beside the seaside]

Have you seen the fit players who didn't play? It's just a bunch of kids less ready then him for senior midfield time.

Jones?

 

[gringo2011]

After one game you make that assumption?

I said if we play like that. We can turn it around but that was playing a pretty shit Geelong and we were flattered by the score line. Could have been a 40 point loss if they’d punished us. Hopefully the Pies are still in a slump or we could get smashed.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I think the AFL umpires department needs a massive overhaul. It is a cronies club with poor professionalism and low standards. Unlike clubs who continually strive to improve their player list to up their game, the umpires department is happy to roll out the same sub-standard weak performers year in, year out. Some have blatant biases against/for certain clubs, St Kilda isn't the only club that experiences this, but the drive isn't there to bring in new talent and raise the bar. Once an ump is in the club they are bullet proof.

Evidence: Ray Chamberlain. I don't dislike Ray. I don't believe he has a problem with bias, although he does like to pull out 'that' decision at a crucial moment in a game. He is one of the club.
Ray has developed a bad back that is exacerbated by bouncing the ball. As a result the AFL in it's wisdom have made an individual specific change to the rules of the game just to accommodate this one bloke. When Ray umpires he doesn't have to bounce the ball, he throws it up instead. It's outrageous! Would the AFL change the rules for an individual player to keep him in the game? You'd think not. Player can't play? It's hang up the boots time.

Umpires didn't cost us the game, there a plenty of flaws we need to work on, and we will. Time for the umpires department to work on their flaws too. It's a blight on the game.

Since this has been obvious for a long time and the AFL have done nothing but exasperated the problem, wouldn't the obvious answer be that this is how they want it to be? Same as the tribunal?
Keep it all in a state of murkiness so the public don't see the strings getting pulled. Pretty standard actually. Integrity went out a very very long time ago.

 

[tomjoad]

Changes for next week:

Ross out, Sinclair in
Collard out, Garcia in
Sharman out, Caminiti in

Any more? Who replaces Stocker?

I'd keep Sharman in. Higgins most likely gets another game, he usually bounces back pretty well after a shocker. I would like to see Collard start the game, and be used when in the right spots. Maybe Garcia to come in, and Ross as the sub.
Personally I doubt much changes.

He seemed to be quite mobile yesterday. If he'd kicked 4.2 instead of 2.4 he would have played brilliant game. Had 17 possessions. 5 more than Brad Hill.

Brad had a shocker, he wasn't alone though, there were a few though that would want to move on pretty quickly.
I missed about an hour of the game whilst it was live, so went back and watched it. King was at least leading, and he did some nice things when up the ground...I just find him frustrating when in the arc. Hope he's switched on for Collingwood.

 

[Saint Kidding]

Since this has been obvious for a long time and the AFL have done nothing but exasperated the problem, wouldn't the obvious answer be that this is how they want it to be? Same as the tribunal?
Keep it all in a state of murkiness so the public don't see the strings getting pulled. Pretty standard actually. Integrity went out a very very long time ago.

You are right. Integrity went out of the game way back when the draw became a 'fixture'.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Marshall was his usual self, plays as an extra mid but loses hit outs. .

Thats fine but Brisbane won 3 straight with hack rucks that belted the ball forward. Why the eff can't Ro try that, or just something else ffs. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[phantom13]

Bonner was pretty good IMO. Sincs is elite and our best player, he's not as good as that but not many are.

He’s good with ball in hand and he got plenty of it he’s just pretty poor defensively imo.

 

[_Maximus_12]

I think Collard and Butler will be our first choice small forwards when we’re fully fit.

Collard starting as sub might have a bit to do with the 5 day turn around to the pies game. Suspect he starts at the G on Thursday and Higgins gets the best

 

[ScrappyDo]

Changes for next week:

Ross out, Sinclair in
Collard out, Garcia in
Sharman out, Caminiti in

Any more? Who replaces Stocker?

Ross out, Sincs in
Collard out, Jones to sub
Stocker out, Gus in

 

[Ducky Tie]

We're not far off it. We're not wanting for much.

Bonner and NWM should be good to hold up half back.

We're wasting Owens in the forwardline but I don't expect we'll change it yet. Seems like they're committed to him as a forward. Not sure why.

Steele, Sinclair, Crouch & Owens as a core midfield looks dynamic and very strong. Phillipou needs more time in the forwardline I think. Doesn't seem quite ready yet. Can have bursts in the midfield.

 

[phantom13]

Whatever change gets Higgins out and never back would suit me.

Higgo out, collard in.

Sincs for whoever, possibly stocker if injured

 

[_Maximus_12]

As long as we’re playing Chito as a back up ruck we can’t play him as a mid.

Structurally we need Hayes to get going ASAP

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

So what. Pressure is off at that point. Classic Saints to lift when the game is done.

How is the game done when we’re a point down with 3 mins to go?

Classic Saints is actually the opposite. 24 down with 7 min left & get done by 50.


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[SteeleSaints]

Marshall was his usual self, plays as an extra mid but loses hit outs. .

Marshall probably halved the hitouts, but given his workload something needs to change he cant keep rucking 90% of games he just gets too fatigued. The problem when he did win hit outs Bruhn was reading the ball off his hand brilliantly. Half the time he had the ball and was bursting away before our mids had even moved - RTB acknowledged we were particularly ordinary in there last night. Although I couldnt believe he thought Crouch was just short of a run, he was terrible and obviously hobbling on that knee he could hardly move.

As much as Sharman is good forward, IMO we desparately need a second ruckman, so when Hayes is fit and firing he should come straight back in IMO. Take some of the workload off Marshall and allow Rowan to rest forward at times to stretch defences. Using Marshall & Hayes forward is a much better prospect than Sharman/Owens are offering.

As has been mentioned Geelong apart from Guthrie had a full list available. Imagine if we had Sinclair, Butler, Clark, Howard, Dow, Jones and Hayes available last night. Having named Howard, I thought Cordy had a solid game, Battle was the key who struggled he looked overawed by the amount of ball coming in.

Higgins is another who struggled big time, because of our lack of genuine key forwards Geelong could afford to play Kolodjashnij and other taller opponents on him. Its a really bad look for Higgins when his opponents run off him and set up goals at the other end. He is not quick but his mindset is way too slow to switch to defenisve mode when the ball is turned over.

As many have said it wasnt a terrible result, but we looked a long way from a finalist team...and most concerning our midfield is third rate, apart from Marshall & Steele it is one of the weakest in the competition.

 

[Diehard Saint]

I don't rate him but thought he was pretty solid. Seemed to negate Hawkins.

Hawkins did a good job of negating himself too. Fumbled a lot. I think he’s at the end.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Wonder how long we’ll persist with Pous education in the midfield.
Not sure we (Lyon and co) know what to do with him and Chito.
I personally think the coaching needs a bit of early feedback/review.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Not much angst here, think we'll beat a lot of teams this year esp considering what I've seen in other games.

Main gripes:

* Why the feck was Crouch playing or at least not subbed. That's just stubborn from Lyon, Crouch was literally hobbling.

* Does King have something against Collard? Hope he gets grilled for some of those selfish decisions (although thought he played well overall)

* Pou forward - Owens on ball. Is there some magic reason this isn't happening? Membrey is playing the role Owens would play and doing it very well

* Sharman is a forward only imhfo

* Marshall's a gun, Henry looks very good as does Wilson

Most other things have already been said!

Oh and * Dangerfield, wish we'd put some body heat on him all night.

Great summary.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Constant talk of a top 4 finish, never mind virtually all non St Kilda nuffies predicting we would slide.

My advise to those having a melt down is to research what it means to be living in an echo chamber.

I know it's only R1 but we are in the early stages of a significant rebuild (shhh, don't tell anyone), so we just need to temper expectations and be patient.

Having said that last night's performance was really poor, thankfully Geelong were also on the nose which should help us avoid media scrutiny this week.

Can’t think of any, certainly not many constantly talking about a top 4 finish.