Round 1 line up discussion

[Asgardian]

B: Surjan, Carlile, Pettigrew
HB: Thomas, Chaplin, P.Burgoyne
C: Salopek, S.Burgoyne, Boak
HF: Gray, Tredrea, Pearce
F: Ebert, Cockshell, Motlop
R: Lade, C. Cornes, K. Cornes
INT: Brogan, Rodan, Cassisi, White

EMG: Deluca, Stewart, Logan

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Sorry to go off topic and I don't think I'm normally picky but this bugs me a bit and you see it a lot on BF. The noun is bias. The adjective is "biased". So an opinion is either biased or unbiased.

Edit:- I reckon this will only be fixed if the mods start handing out infractions.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

B: Surjan, Carlile, Pettigrew
HB: Thomas, Chaplin, P.Burgoyne
C: Salopek, S.Burgoyne, Boak
HF: Gray, Tredrea, Pearce
F: Ebert, Cockshell, Motlop
R: Lade, C. Cornes, K. Cornes
INT: Brogan, Rodan, Cassisi, White

EMG: Deluca, Stewart, Logan

I want to play 3 permanent talls especially if De Luca plays as Lade will need a rest on the bench. If Chad doesn't play forward I agree with you to play Cockshell for extra physicality, which we need against Geelong but I would still play Westhoff. Means I would reluctantly drop Logan.

 

[Toots Hibbert]

The thing that goes against Cockshell though is his very unreliable goal kicking. I can see us making a big comeback in the last quarter and getting the ball to Cocky several times only for him to kick a few points or an out of bounds. That would knock the wind out of our sails.

 

[captain ebert]

B: Surjan, Carlile, Pettigrew
HB: P.Burgoyne, Thurstans, Stewart
C: Boak, Salopek, Cassisi
HF: Westoff, C. Cornes, Gray
F: Ebert, Tredrea, Motlop
1R: Lade, S.Burgoyne, K.Cornes

Int: Brogan, Rodan, Thomas, Pearce

assuming chaplin's out.

 

[Coobk001]

White could also be on the emergency list but he definately is not ahead of Carlile after last weeks game and if he gets picked I'll be pissed as it would be a huge step backward for our team.

Stewart is also in the mix to be an emergency.

Pearce starts ahead of Boak because he is back to his blistering best in the last couple of pre-season games.

Gray starts because of his ability to be our only pure goalsneak as well as a great quality decoy, and he showed a tremendous amount last week. In fact that forward 6 is probably the best forward 6 in the comp. 90 goals between Ebo & Mots last year, a 4/5 time AA CHF, a 2 time AA utility & 2 of last years rising stars. Dangerous describes them perfectly. We also saw quite clearly on the weekend that we will see a lot of Chad up forward and he did look great the way he teamed and linked up with Tredrea 3 times in the 3rd quarter demolition of Freo.

The backline is selected to match up on Geelongs height, but Lower could quite easily take Carlile's spot depending on matchups.

Thomas was picked ahead of Logan, Lower & Stewart because he has shown the most over the pre-season and has the most potential. Only his injury last week may see him miss out this week.

 

[i_love_the_hoff]

matthew scarlett???!
gaaah
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Coobk001]

Westy may have a lean week in round 1, but I've got the feeling he is on the verge of breaking the form slump he is in. He definately looked like he was close to snapping it last week and I reckon round 2 vs the swans Westy may kick a bag.

 

[i_love_the_hoff]

reckon round 2 vs the swans Westy may kick a bag.

thats what i like to hear!

 

[Toots Hibbert]

It doesn't look like Chaplin will be playing so I'd have Carlile at FB, Thurstans CHB.

 

[Coobk001]

It doesn't look like Chaplin will be playing so I'd have Carlile at FB, Thurstans CHB.

Yeah will be tight, I reckon with an injury like a hand though that he'll get up. It's not like a soft tissue injury so I reckon he'll play.

 

[morell]

Let me get this straight.

We are looking at;

Thurstans Vs Mooney
Pettigrew Vs Johnson
Surjan Vs Chapman

and our back up is a 10 gamer or Damon White.

We're ****ed, even if we lose 1 of those matchups, we will be in massive strife. If we lose all 3 like we did on that fateful day, expect a similar result. Who plays on Ottens when he's forward?

Play Chad at CHB.

 

[Portia]

The players we need to be concerned about are our own, not theirs. If we had protected our ball-carrier when running the ball from defence, that game would've been back in our hands. I said back around prelim time that shepherding will decide the premiership winner, and it sure did, if only by its absence on our side.

Mooney, Johnson, Chapman. If they win their positions and we win the other 15, we will win comfortably.

 

[Janus]

Remember you'll have Lade/Brogan dropping back after ruck contests, so it won't be TOO bad.

Secondly, why are these guys listed as defenders if they can't defend? Sometimes you have to back your players in. Just imagine what sort of confidence shattering would take place if Choco said at the team meeting: "Um, you guys aren't good enough, so we're going to put Chad back in defense. Want a reason? Here's 119 of them."

Totally agree with Porthos. If we're winning the midfield (and beating that smug little **** Gary Ablett Jnr in the process) and wrecking havoc in our forward line, then who cares whether Ottens comes forward? Make no mistake, it was TACTICS and APPLICATION that cost us. Not skill or ability.

 

[morell]

The players we need to be concerned about are our own, not theirs.

Everywhere except the back 6.

If we had protected our ball-carrier when running the ball from defence, that game would've been back in our hands. I said back around prelim time that shepherding will decide the premiership winner, and it sure did, if only by its absence on our side.

Incredibly over simplistic.

Talent wise we match up against Geelong ok. Heck, we match up against anyone talent wise but its the football smarts we lack. Which I guess would include ways to protect the ball carrier, but also forward movement, when to handpass and when to kick, where to handpass and where to kick.

These things take time to learn at the AFL level where often it all needs to summed up in a split second.

We don't have it yet. Geelong do.

Mooney, Johnson, Chapman. If they win their positions and we win the other 15, we will win comfortably.

Well yeah. I am assuming the rest of the ground will be pretty even as both teams match up ok everwhere else.

I don't see how we can win this game unless Geelong rock up half asleep.

 

[morell]

Totally agree with Porthos. If we're winning the midfield (and beating that smug little **** Gary Ablett Jnr in the process) and wrecking havoc in our forward line, then who cares whether Ottens comes forward? Make no mistake, it was TACTICS and APPLICATION that cost us. Not skill or ability.

The midfield will be split with neither side having a definitive advantage.

We won't be able to hold Corey, Selwood, Bartel and Ablett. We simply don't have enough taggers. Ditto them with Burgoyne, Sally and Pearce. Hopefully.

With the midfield even and our forward line being reasonably well held, it will come down to wether our back 6 will cope. I don't think they can.

I wouldn't mind wagering on an Easter Chocco flood for this one either.

 

[Portia]

My lineup

Chad responds to incoming..if he gets an intercept, first choice would be to dump it on the pacy right wing - choice of Surj, Pettigrew, Pearce or Shaun peeling off. If it was a bad kick and they're already back, slow & sure left wing is the way to go

Salopek should run to the listed position after every ball up and essentially be midfield quarterback.

Boak and Pearce should kick two goals each.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

It might be worth revisiting Patrick Smith's 10 commandments for beating Geelong, which he wrote after watching Port do that at Kardinia Park last year.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22364488-12270,00.html

Port showed there are 10 commandments that, followed religiously, can bring Geelong down. Dean Laidley, you should feel free to use them on Sunday. A small charge will apply.

One: Gary Ablett provides the energy and vision for the team. He is the single-most important player. Opposition clubs need to sit on him with their very best run-with player. He goes everywhere Ablett does and sits on the interchange bench with the Geelong star. Ablett will have an effect because he is so good but to beat Geelong he must somehow be stifled if not beaten.

Two: Only Port's Kane Cornes (613) and Ablett (585) have had more disposals this season than Joel Corey (582). The Geelong midfielder is a great accumulator and almost as important as Ablett. He, too, must be assigned an experienced run-with player.

Three: The third-most important player is Darren Milburn. He is the collector and distributor on the backline. He is very good at getting across to help a team-mate out as the third man up and he then generals the way the ball is run out of defence. He must be assigned a defensive forward who must draw him outside 50metres or take him back into the goal square. If he is allowed to hover across the defence, 30metres from goal he has his best chance to control the defence and therefore the ball movement.

Four: Have two ruckmen on the ground at least 80 per cent of the time. Geelong's style is to kick, mark and handball off, kick, mark and handball off. It is rapid and direct football, always focused on attacking through the corridor. Port Adelaide coach Mark Williams made this difficult by using Brendan Lade as a centre forward and Dean Brogan as centre back. Coming out of defence Geelong had to push wide of Lade and going into attack play around Brogan. The corridor was not as accessible as Geelong liked. And Geelong's best forward Cameron Mooney is not comfortable with a big ruckman standing in front of him. It plays on his mind. Because Lade rucked the forward line and Brogan the back, it allowed the two ruckmen to have extended time on the ground.

Five: Spread the Geelong defence. Port spaced its four marking forwards brilliantly. All started close to the goal. Warren Tredrea was 20 to 30metres out from goal. He would lead at his team-mate coming down the ground. Daniel Motlop would lead out to the right, Brett Ebert out to the left. Justin Westhoff stayed in the goal square. Between them, the quartet kicked 10 of Port's 16 goals. The structure and the direction the forwards led meant it was very difficult for Geelong defenders to supply cover to team-mates. They were forced to play their men one-on-one. So the Geelong defence, the meanest in the league, previously conceding just 72 points a match, gave up 106 to Port.

Six: Slow down the tempo of the game. The Cats midfielders are risk-takers, rhythm players with only Cameron Ling defensively strong. Geelong's first aim is to attack relentlessly, much like Adam Gilchrist plays one-day cricket. Opposition sides must ****** Geelong's momentum. Port did it by manning up, chip kicking and keeping the ball out of Geelong's hands. Huddle and spread. Frustrate. Stifle.

Seven: Protect the corridor. Opposition clubs must almost zone off and clog Geelong's favorite attacking avenue. With Lade playing centre forward and Brogan centre back, flankers also gravitated towards the corridor. It meant Geelong had to work the ball around the flanks which is contrary to its game plan.

Eight: Geelong likes to stream forward, kicking to leading targets. Opposition defenders must stand two to five metres ahead of their opponents. This will help force them to lead out to the boundary and force the ball to be delivered out of the corridor. The Geelong forwards could lead back towards goal but they are not comfortable doing that. Put a strong, experienced defender who is prepared to give as good as he gets - physically and verbally - on Mooney. He is less effective, more distracted when he can't intimidate.

Nine: The man hunted by Ling should never push into Geelong's forward line. Avoid the lure of running to stoppages in the forward 50. Ling is the one mid-fielder who can kick goals. He has 27 for the season and only forwards Matthew Stokes (28), Nathan Ablett (28), Steve Johnson (41) and Mooney (55) have more.

Ten: Opposition midfielders should push to all stoppages in their own forward line. Get numbers around the ball because Geelong's midfield and onballers are not strong defensively. Decent ruck work will give opposition midfielders quality shots on goal.

Port's victory over Geelong was made simpler by the absence of Ling and Jimmy Bartels. But without Matthew Egan (foot fracture), both Matthew Scarlett and Tom Harley will have to adjust their roles. Critically, the round 21 match showed that if the defence is spread and the corridor blocked, Geelong is uncomfortable and beatable when removed from its primary game plan.

All the commandments must be followed if Geelong is to be beaten. It is good enough to work around some of the tactics but not all of them. Ten out of 10 - it will produce the perfect score.

 

[*PAF]

The players we need to be concerned about are our own, not theirs. If we had protected our ball-carrier when running the ball from defence, that game would've been back in our hands. I said back around prelim time that shepherding will decide the premiership winner, and it sure did, if only by its absence on our side.

Mooney, Johnson, Chapman. If they win their positions and we win the other 15, we will win comfortably.

I'm with you on this one Porthos. Lets worry about our game first and foremost.
Our backline did quite well in the GF, but once it got out of our back 50 there wasn't a stopwatch with intervals small enough to measure how long it took to go straight back in. It was as if they had ball buckets sitting just in front of their 50 yard line.
We lost that game and as much as Choco has had a good career and a good 2007, that was one of his worst coaching performances since he started.

 

[Janus]

The midfield will be split with neither side having a definitive advantage.

We won't be able to hold Corey, Selwood, Bartel and Ablett. We simply don't have enough taggers. Ditto them with Burgoyne, Sally and Pearce. Hopefully.

With the midfield even and our forward line being reasonably well held, it will come down to wether our back 6 will cope. I don't think they can.

I wouldn't mind wagering on an Easter Chocco flood for this one either.

I'll give you the midfields are well matched - Kane will probably tag Ablett cause he can get his own ball while doing so, whereas Cassisi will most likely go to Corey. Selwood I'm not really worried about - Boak is just as good as him IMO - and will prove he is better this year. Whoever gets tagged by Ling takes Bartell as their opponent - I'm guessing it will be Shaun. So we MAY end up with Salopek free, but it's a matter of getting it to him.

I'll go slightly different on Porthos' theory of Chad dropping back and say that this will only happen if Lade/Brogan is rucking in the forward line. Otherwise, it will be Lade/Brogan intercepting and dishing off to P.Burgoyne. Ottens will probably drift forward when that happens, which is fine - a cluttered forward line will equate to the "flood" you want

Look, I'm not against the fact that our defense is our weakest link. It's painfully obvious that it is, with the loss of Wakelin and Wilson being out 'til halfway through the season. But our decision making was good enough to get us to second spot and through to a grand final, so it's not that bad. We just crumbled when it mattered most.

Oh, and if the defense is under pressure, there is something to be said about being smashed in the clearances/stoppages - which is the midfields job.

If we have to resort to flooding, we've already lost. It might earn a respectable total on the scoreboard, but it teaches absolutely nothing about accountability for your man, IMO.

 

[crazy_big_al]

F- Ebert Westhoff D.Motlop
HF- Rodan Tredrea C Cornes
C- Boak Salopek Pearce
HB- P.Burgoyne Thurstans Cassisi
B- Surjan Carlile Pettigrew
1R- Lade K.Cornes S.Burgoyne
Int- Logan, Brogan, Thomas, White

Em- Krakouer, Gray, Deluca, M.Motlop

 

[sabby]

Sorry to go off topic and I don't think I'm normally picky but this bugs me a bit and you see it a lot on BF. The noun is bias. The adjective is "biased". So an opinion is either biased or unbiased.

Edit:- I reckon this will only be fixed if the mods start handing out infractions.

Infractions for spelling errors?

 

[PJ Power]

We have to back in our guys for this one.

If we are going to be any chance we need players like Pearce, the Burgoynes, Salopek and Boak being able to carry the ball and distribute it as cleanly as possible. That requires our players to play unselfishly by hunting the ball in numbers and providing protection for each other.

Geelong have enormous talent - no question, but when you look through our list, we do too. The problem is that if our guys are left isolated and flat-footed as they were in the GF, there will be no way for us to hurt Geelong with linking, running play, which is our best chance of beating them.

We can't afford to look at individual matchups against this opposition - rather we have to back our groups (eg midfield, defence, forwards) to combine well together against their playing groups.

Mooney, Johnston and co. will kill any opposition if there is no pressure applied to their ball-carriers going forward and no run or rebound out of our backline.

I'm still not sure whether to go with a Logan/Gray, Thomas/Gray or Thomas/Logan combination. We definitely need the extra strong body against the Cats, but Gray could also be a real spark up forward if we can get it down there often enough.

 

[Ebert80]

FF Ebert, S Burgoyne, D Motlop

HF Gray, Tredrea, Boak

C Salopek, K Cornes, Pearce

HB Surjan, Thurstans, P Burgoyne

FB Lower, Carlile, Pettigrew

RUCK
Lade
C Cornes
Cassisi

INT White, Brogan, Thomas, Rodan

EMERG J Westhoff, Deluca

*****This is the side i'd go in with

- The side is premised around Chaplin not being match fit for round 1

- J Westhoff rested from this game because of match ups, in particular swapping Chad and Shaun at FF and on the ball. This would be a one off selection for me, i'd be putting Chad across half forward and Shaun in the centre as a general rule for the remainder of the season, and given that Westhoff played well for CD round 1, i'd put him back in the side for round 2.

- I wouldn't debut Stewart in this game, he'll play soon but i'd leave that for a week or two after round 1

 

[Black 18]

If we have to resort to flooding, we've already lost. It might earn a respectable total on the scoreboard, but it teaches absolutely nothing about accountability for your man, IMO.

How true