Review Round 10, 2020 - Brisbane Lions vs. Richmond

[royboys4eva]

I thought Gardiner was really solid last night. He made a few errors with disposals but he is one player I think you can rely to make his opponent earn it. I think he is hugely underrated and we would be exposed down back without him.

Just a thought but next time we play the Tigers maybe instead of letting Dusty get 20/25 touches at 100% - perhaps assign Robbo to him. Just bash into him every time - I didn't care if he gives away a couple free kicks early. Just let Dusty know he is in for a tough day/night. He loves playing against us because we allow him to roam free. You can't keep doing the same things expect a different result. We need to change it up next time we play them.

 

[Ralphy2017]

Think we really missed a trick here as a club. We were always going to struggle of such a silly short break against a side who has had an extra 48 hours rest. Should have taken the long term view and pencilled the Dogs game as the one to win and rested key player against Tigers. Now we face the issue of players probably needing to be rested vs Dogs. Players like Mathieson/Christensen/Ely Smith would have ripped in last night with the opportunity.

Robbo has struggled for a month. McCluggage can't get near the ball since that Geelong game where he got injured. Zorko isn't the same zippy player he has been in the past.. that said he had mentioned he has to play the season with his injury. Next few years I can actually see Zorks playing 50% mid and 50% forward.

Richmond beat us the same way every time. Block off the corridor. You could see our guys look there all night and hesitate then just decide to go down the line. Didn't help not having Rich and Birchall to make the switch kick. So once we are forced wide the Tigers defenders knew how it was coming in. We missed lot of shots tonight but a lot of them are forced wide by their system. Out forward system works well against lower strength teams but soon as we play the top teams they figure us out far too easy.

Hipwood is not a contested forward - he has to play a different game that matches his attributes. He is best either at full forward leading hard from the square and opening up space behind him or play him as roaming half forward where he can use his pace to run the ball into the 50. Kicking to him down the line isn't going to work much and he falls to ground far too easy and why does he slip over so often?

Skinner and Ballenden looked like guys playing there 3rd and second games last night.. but its good that they have been given a run. We will probably need them at other times this season. Payne looked well off the pace but thats a tough game to make your debut in.

I was very disappointed in CEY last night. But I was excited with what Ah Chee showed up forward. Think he once kicked 4 goals against us as a forward for the Suns. He can replace Rayner up forward and Witherden deserves to stay in back line - he was solid again last night.

Lynch while a good player is an embarrassment - tries to shove Witherdens head into the ground as he runs past - but the minute he gets a shove back he falls to the ground like a 2 year old.

Yes a few of the boys liked tired, maybe Eagles in this week for Big O, Hugh looked very tired, especially when McIntosh stepped him. I think Payne was terribly unlucky not to receive a free kick when Riewoldt jumped all over his back, and a few seconds later was penalised for holding the ball, in front of the sticks. He should have received a free. Yes there was a couple of times, one in particular where he needed to leave his man and run in front of goal to act as the 'gate keeper' but otherwise for his first game showed promise and I believe will be much better for the run, and deserves another opportunity. First game against Richmond is a baptism of fire, when our mid field was getting beat. It is good Skinner and Ballenden have been given games, and I think one stays in this week as backup ruck, need to develop the young guys. It must be hard coming from ressie matches straight into AFL level, especially against a top side, but I keep faith that we have some good youth. Would like to see WOOLLER and Ely Smith and maybe young Berry get a chance this Saturday.

 

[Lace Out]

So ahhh,when do the Lions get to play a team off a 4 day break ?

 

[Quigley]

I thought Gardiner was really solid last night. He made a few errors with disposals but he is one player I think you can rely to make his opponent earn it. I think he is hugely underrated and we would be exposed down back without him.

Just a thought but next time we play the Tigers maybe instead of letting Dusty get 20/25 touches at 100% - perhaps assign Robbo to him. Just bash into him every time - I didn't care if he gives away a couple free kicks early. Just let Dusty know he is in for a tough day/night. He loves playing against us because we allow him to roam free. You can't keep doing the same things expect a different result. We need to change it up next time we play them.

See I thought he was very poor. His disposal efficiency was 53%....for a backman. That is exceptionally poor and saw the ball rebound back and catch his defensive partners out of position.

Defensively he was also beaten a lot whether by Reiwoldt or Martin. His opponent got the ball in dangerous positions a lot. Then there was the usual brain fade free kick. This time on Lynch directly in front of goal. He was very lucky that Lynch missed the soda.

He has gotten a lot better but this was not one of his good games.

 

[martinson]

I thought Gardiner was really solid last night. He made a few errors with disposals but he is one player I think you can rely to make his opponent earn it. I think he is hugely underrated and we would be exposed down back without him.

Just a thought but next time we play the Tigers maybe instead of letting Dusty get 20/25 touches at 100% - perhaps assign Robbo to him. Just bash into him every time - I didn't care if he gives away a couple free kicks early. Just let Dusty know he is in for a tough day/night. He loves playing against us because we allow him to roam free. You can't keep doing the same things expect a different result. We need to change it up next time we play them.

I think the time has come to try a hard tag.

Makes it a bit difficult when he gets away with direct nudges in the back 3 or 4 times a game.

 

[snooplions]

God, it must be tempting to swing Andrews forward when the coaches see his hands, footy brain, physicality and poise in comparison to our tall forwards. McStay would be the closest tall forward we have in comparison to Andrew skills and attributes, but obviously his goal kicking lets him down.

Regarding Hipwood, I am starting to think he is a square peg in a round hole. I would say throwing him down back might be the way forward, but his attributes still don't really suit him playing as a key position player at any end.

I'm not confident on his future in the side should we get an established key forward in the trade period this year.

But that's just me.

 

[martinson]

God, it must be tempting to swing Andrews forward when the coaches see his hands, footy brain, physicality and poise in comparison to our tall forwards. McStay would be the closest tall forward we have in comparison to Andrew skills and attributes, but obviously his goal kicking lets him down.

Regarding Hipwood, I am starting to think he is a square peg in a round hole. I would say throwing him down back might be the way forward, but his attributes still don't really suit him playing as a key position player at any end.

I'm not confident on his future in the side should we get an established key forward in the trade period this year.

But that's just me.

Hipwood looks stale and burnt out in his role.

Time to freshen him up in a more varied role.

Not that I know what it is.

 

[Jimmy Two Hands]

I can say with absolute certainty that NONE OF THEM involved "snapping from a pack from 30 out in the pocket with 5 Tigers hanging off them" as you put it.

We have been pretty awful with our set shots for a while against all opponents but we usually make up for it with our goals from the field

I don't know what happens to our players when we play Richmond but their minds seem to turn to jelly when they are shooting for goal.

Against any other opponent we kick 5+ of those field shots on goal and probably at least 3 of the set shots (including the Skinner bungle)

8 goals at least just flushed down the toilet in a game that we lost by 41 points.

I appreciate I was being a bit hyperbolic with the description of the snaps - but even if we did break even and took the 3/3 that you suggested, that still leaves us 7.14 and still probably bemoaning our goalkicking accuracy.

My point is - I think we took the shots Richmond wanted us to take, low percentage contested shots that allow them to rebound quickly from the kick out. I think its a gameplan and pressure issue, as opposed to pure accuracy.

 

[T Rick]

There is a big discrepancy between or best footall and our worst. I am not talking about from one match to another, it’s actually in the one match. It’s been evident in most games and a good team like Richmond make you pay.

Another factor I believe is that we are downhill skiers. We love being on top or in games but once that pendulum swings we are like deer in headlights. I believe it comes back to a certain level of maturity and leadership which we are lacking. We require leadership across the ground, not just one or two. I don’t want us using the ‘we are young tag’ as that gives an out.

Do I believe that we are ‘team first’? I don’t think so, the majority yes, but it needs to be across the 22. I am not using the one game as evidence either.

Yes bad kicking is bad football but our entries and where we kick those shots from are what needs to be worked on. There is a great article how St Kilda turned this one area around and the proof is in the pudding.

What was evident last night was our poor decision making on top of our skills. Do we have ‘smart footballers’? Not too sure, Zorko’s kick from half back flank (last quarter) where he took off and kicked the ball to no one apart from 3 Richmond players is evident of this.

I believe Shai Bolton us a new one. Would get the ball and go and once that happened we were back pedalling the whole time.

Big O is our future ruck. He has been the one consistent shining light across the last three games.

I usually like to finish on a positive however the one thing that really irks me, Richmond are not that good of a football ‘team’, couple of very good footballers but we made some ordinary footballers look like world beaters last night.

Agreed re the Big O. He obviously played sore but gave 100%, was really competitive and took some great contested marks. He is our future #1 ruck and very resilient...really pleased for him!

 

[martinson]

I appreciate I was being a bit hyperbolic with the description of the snaps - but even if we did break even and took the 3/3 that you suggested, that still leaves us 7.14 and still probably bemoaning our goalkicking accuracy.

My point is - I think we took the shots Richmond wanted us to take, low percentage contested shots that allow them to rebound quickly from the kick out. I think its a gameplan and pressure issue, as opposed to pure accuracy.

Absolutely.

They knew how we were bringing it in . Repeat of last season's 2 games.

Some of our players are good enough now to put it in deeper and more direct. We need to try that.

 

[Dylan12]

Tom Lynch is an a grade you know what. What possesses him to come out at the start of each quarter and target one of the smaller players on the ground, all the time with that stupid Howdy Doody grin on his face.

Its times like this that I wish we had the likes of Marty Pike, the Scott twins, Mal Michael or even a Leppa to stand up to weak pricks like Lynch. No way he tries it with those sort of cats in the back line roughing up a young Aaron Shattock, Luke Power etc. Just a gutless campaigner.

It probably says more about our defensive unit in recent years, with the exception of when Hodge was there, that they're a pretty soft lot that rarely flies the flag. No doubt if Mitch Robinson was playing deep when Lynch was doing that, he would stop pretty quickly.

 

[Section 5]

Well Richmond won by 41 which is their average winning margin v Lions since we last beat them
How did the bookies have us favorites for this game

For me the last three losses to Richmond is down to them having more small /medium size runners.
We have not learned that much from these 3 defeats. Forget about the inaccurate goal kicking.

With Stef Martin out it was time to add another runner to the team instead of the standard two ruck combo that Fagan favors
Then when you throw in inexperienced big players Skinner and Ballenden into the forward mix we are way too slow.
Arguably Richmond's best two players were small defenders Baker & Short

Oscar finally got his TOG up to 86 %. This is 10 % above his average.
To go to just one ruck it has to be in the mid 80's. Their are exceptions like Nic Nat.
Ballenden was on the ground for 73 % for 3 hit outs, 2 marks which resulted in a total of 3 possessions

Then what to do with Hipwood the thin 204 cm forward with the bright green boots
I would like to see him trialed as the second ruck. Unlikely to happen but it is a strange year
He just need basic training to protect himself at center bounces. Does not even need to compete as such just protect himself.
Lions have proved that we can still get enough clearances from a losing center ruck contest
He should be able to pick up possessions around the ground. He would defiantly be able to cover the kick down the line.
If he can start to get his hands on the footy more often he will gain more confidence.
You could even use someone like CEY to cover this role.

Something has to change v Richmond or we will continue to get the same result

 

[M Malice]

God, it must be tempting to swing Andrews forward when the coaches see his hands, footy brain, physicality and poise in comparison to our tall forwards. McStay would be the closest tall forward we have in comparison to Andrew skills and attributes, but obviously his goal kicking lets him down.

Regarding Hipwood, I am starting to think he is a square peg in a round hole. I would say throwing him down back might be the way forward, but his attributes still don't really suit him playing as a key position player at any end.

I'm not confident on his future in the side should we get an established key forward in the trade period this year.

But that's just me.

One of the more prominent phantom drafters on BF is of the opinion that Hipwood is a key defender and has said as much since Hippy was drafted.

 

[briztoon]

People seem very very quick to write off new players, especially young talls. Three players with a combined total of six games between them against the best team in the country. Progress is rarely linear. Some start off fast and then improve slowly. Others start slow but then really improve.

The three young talls might be good players but we won’t know until we give them a chance to develop at this level.

Agreed.

But if they only get opportunities when a best 22 player is injured, they’re going to have very limited opportunities when they really need to be getting more games in to them.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Bringing Payne in also resulted in us playing taller than we have and seemed to throw off the balance of the backline.

We have played with Adams and Lester usually. Sure, Payne has 5cm on both of them but the point is Gardiner has played third tall before, it shouldn't be that drastic a change. But if it is, is that something we can get used to? Otherwise I'm not sure Payne is going to get many opportunities since he isn't going to replace Harris or Gardiner anytime soon.

 

[LIONS08]

Hodge and Birchall have made big differences down back as one bookend, and we desperately need a forward one.

I’d still like to see Christensen bought in to fill that role. He has been an best 22 player in an elite team and I believe he can make a difference.

Even after last nights horrid game we are still the highest scoring team this season! We just need to convert! I really don’t think we have that many issues up forward. We play a team based forward setup and spread the love around! A few extra hands in the middle would be elite

 

[briztoon]

On some of the players:

Payne – for a KPD playing his first game against a hot Richmond forward line I thought he did pretty well. There were a few things he did wrong – eg punching back into the corridor, not getting a touch on Bolton kick. Even on those two though he showed good strength on the former to get the punch in a contest with the big boys flying and in the latter he held Chol out of being able to contest the mark although Chol did manage to nudge him just enough to prevent Payne getting a touch. He will learn from both of those. On the positives he looked very composed and at ease with the ball in hand and hit targets nicely. He dropped the shoulder a couple of times and put some heavy hits on Lynch and Reiwoldt. He was generally good defensively and it was not his player that was getting away and scoring goals.

Gardiner – every 5 or 6 games Gardiner throws in a shocker and this was it. Made some stupid mistakes defensively and some poor skill errors going the other way. Positioned himself better to mark the ball in the second half but followed up with skill errors too often. Well beaten on the night.

Andrews – his positioning was poor especially in the first half. A rare bad game from Harris.

Ballenden and Skinner – both did not do enough. The main issue I have with Ballenden has always been his timidness and that was on display last night. Did not go hard at the ball and was too easily moved out of the way when under it. Skinner went hard enough but was slow too it and his hands were ordinary. Both provided little.

Hipwood – usually I am a pretty big defender of Hipwood but I thought he was very poor last night. He gave nothing inside 50 and not much more up the ground. He was outbodied all night and did not adjust at all to the umpires letting pushes in the back go.

CEY – his big body came in handy a few times in the second half but his workrate was poor, he looked about three steps slower than those around him and he dropped a couple of marks that he should have taken and cost us goals. He did not get enough of it and these types of games evidence why he is probably only ever going to be a place holder until one of the younger guys demand selection.

Ah Chee – I have not been a fan of his but credit to him he was one of our best last night. His running was the best I have seen it and that makes him look like a player. Skills were only average though and his 5 turnovers were an equal team high. For someone who comes with a reputation as a good ball user he needs to do better.

McCarthy – was our most dangerous forward on the night. He took some good marks and was dangerous with the ball on the ground. He bulled in and provided a contest. Some his misses though made me tear my hair out.

Zorko – had a few howlers. One to forget for Dayne.

Robinson – needs a rest.

Witherden – seemed to feel the pressure more than most. Had a few poor disposals coming out of defense. Not a terrible game from him but a couple of steps below the Essendon effort.

Bailey – he is one guy who will hustle back to help out the defence when they are under pressure. He did that a few times appearing in the last night which was good to see. He is a hard worker and continues to develop.

Nunez this is exactly what I was referring to last night about Gardiner.

 

[Dylan12]

We have played with Adams and Lester usually. Sure, Payne has 5cm on both of them but the point is Gardiner has played third tall before, it shouldn't be that drastic a change. But if it is, is that something we can get used to? Otherwise I'm not sure Payne is going to get many opportunities since he isn't going to replace Harris or Gardiner anytime soon.

I still maintain getting rid of Walker was just fundamentally wrong.

I'd have him easily in front of Adams, Lester, Payne in terms of KPD and he always provided flexibility to either go forward or allow Andrews to go forward. We just don't have that luxury anymore with Walker being pissed off.

I think 98% of the time we get our trades / delistings correct, but definitely not the Walker one.

 

[Gadzorks]

Even after last nights horrid game we are still the highest scoring team this season! We just need to convert! I really don’t think we have that many issues up forward. We play a team based forward setup and spread the love around! A few extra hands in the middle would be elite

we are getting the ball into scoring positions, I was thinking more of a calming influence that instills confidence. Less chaos, calmer heads that haven’t already thought about transition to defence while they are taking the shot.

having said that, McCarthy, Cameron and Lyons are experienced enough that they should be calm.

I’m just a Christensen fan - really enjoyed watching him play last year.

 

[briztoon]

Nunez and just to follow up.

See I thought he was very poor. His disposal efficiency was 53%....for a backman. That is exceptionally poor and saw the ball rebound back and catch his defensive partners out of position.

Defensively he was also beaten a lot whether by Reiwoldt or Martin. His opponent got the ball in dangerous positions a lot. Then there was the usual brain fade free kick. This time on Lynch directly in front of goal. He was very lucky that Lynch missed the soda.

He has gotten a lot better but this was not one of his good games.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I still maintain getting rid of Walker was just fundamentally wrong.

I'd have him easily in front of Adams, Lester, Payne in terms of KPD and he always provided flexibility to either go forward or allow Andrews to go forward. We just don't have that luxury anymore with Walker being pissed off.

I think 98% of the time we get our trades / delistings correct, but definitely not the Walker one.

I blame us signing Adams. Without him Walker would have stuck around. Clearly Fagan and co saw something in Adams that they liked, but I don't know what it is yet.

 

[jackess]

Nunez and just to follow up.

So 2 people vs 54......

 

[Schlurp]

Really happy to see Cal playing back where he belongs up forward last night! Thought he looked much better. Wait until he starts building in confidence - he can act as a real connector between the mids and forwards.

Was Tom Lynch always such a thug? Knew he always sort of played with an edge, but can't remember him doing stuff like that as his GC days, but entirely possible I had rose colored glasses on. Bleah. Terrible to watch. Hate that guy.

No offence intended here Sunny but I'm inclined to the view that unsociable football is more a generic Lynch characteristic. I remember a game many years ago, might have been a Grand Final, when another Lynch who also played full forward for Brisbane, went totally ballistic. Picked up a few weeks suspension which he never served because he retired after the match. Alastair, of course, is now a respected commentator. There's hope for Tom yet.

 

[iBeng]

So ahhh,when do the Lions get to play a team off a 4 day break ?

Im assuming we dont because of some convoluted reason, like not having to leave QLD or something.

 

[iBeng]

No offence intended here Sunny but I'm inclined to the view that unsociable football is more a generic Lynch characteristic. I remember a game many years ago, might have been a Grand Final, when another Lynch who also played full forward for Brisbane, went totally ballistic. Picked up a few weeks suspension which he never served because he retired after the match. Alastair, of course, is now a respected commentator. There's hope for Tom yet.

I think its confusing watching him smack a bloke in the back of the head since his face makes him look like a 17 year old head on a 25 year old body.