Autopsy Round 10, 2023: GWS v St.Kilda

[gringo2011]

Richmond were never great during the home and away season at clearance but they lifted come finals time to at least break even or win. 2020 in particular they were dominant from centre clearance in their finals games, and they also had a rock solid defence that I don’t think we have anymore despite our start to the season. I agree that it doesn’t need to be priority one but we can’t continue to be pedestrian in there.

I’m just in a rush to find one or two game changers in there because the majority of our good players like Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall etc aren’t exactly young anymore.

We definitely need more midfield depth but I'm not sure our midfield is as big an impediment as people are making out.

 

[Joffaboy]

Overall it was a pretty ugly scrappy game of footy (which it sort of has been since the Pies game) BUT...

GWS threw everything at us and in spite of being a bit of a nothing team from a style POV they still have stars everywhere (Buckley might be AA, Whitfield, Kelly, Coniglio, Green, Greene, Hogan, Cadman and thats before you note Ward, Haynes and Himmelberg) so ill take the win.

For us Owens started like a house on fire and as gringo2011 mentioned, the flying knee was more from the GWS push than anything (i blew up at my TV for that not being paid). Sinclair is a freak, Nas was a star, Stocker was good again, actually thought Howard was okay even accounting for his usual handful of brain fades, Steele, Wood, Gresh, Higgins and Butler all good as well.

Clark remains a bit of an enigma but if he winds up being our 16-23rd man picked each week then our team is in phenomenal shape.

Watching afterwards without the emotion, I thought it was a cracking game. Both teams pressure was extremely high all game and this, and the dodgy surface affected the disposal somewhat.

Clark to me is easily top ten. He looks like a mummy's boy but is as tough as nails. Has had his jaw smashed, a compound fracture of the nose, and he doesn't hesitate to crack in, and in most cases against their toughest inside mids. More often than not he gets the ball going Pur way under tremendous pressure.
His importance to the team is severely underrated in my opinion.

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[phantom13]

That kick in the second that dropped in the hole perfectly to Gresh

He shaped like it was gonna be a long kick too so the defence couldnt telegraph it.

Its a weird thing to say but i was absolutely gobsmacked he missed that sealer in the fourth. For a bloke 6-7 games into his career i would have put the house on that one splitting the middle.

 

[Joffaboy]

We definitely ned more midfield depth but I'm not Sure our midfield is as big and impediment as people are making out.

Agree with this, a Cripps or an Oliver would be nice.
Maybe a Fyfe up forward through the guts occasionally ( was in the guts for Freo on the weekend, occasionally I think) would be an interim while Chito, Windy Nas and Pou rise as that dominant midfield.

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[phantom13]

Watching afterwards without the emotion, I thought it was a cracking game. Both teams pressure was extremely high all game and this, and the dodgy surface affected the disposal somewhat.

Clark to me is easily top ten. He looks like a mummy's boy but is as tough as nails. Has had his jaw smashed, a compound fracture of the nose, and he doesn't hesitate to crack in, and in most cases against their toughest inside mids. More often than not he gets the ball going Pur way under tremendous pressure.
His importance to the team is severely underrated in my opinion.

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I mean the Collingwood game was an absolute pressure cooker as well but it doesnt make for a great spectacle. It was just scrappy, i said the same about the pies game and people got defensive but its a bit of a pattern for us now, weirdly it might be a positive. The Adelaide game wasnt scrappy and they ****ing smashed us.

Im not potting Clark here either, i love him and think he gives us something but top 10 feels a stretch.

Steele, King, Higgins, Owens, Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Wood, Roma, Gresh and Battle all ahead of him even yesterday where he was good im not sure he was in our 10 best.

 

[Joffaboy]

I mean the Collingwood game was an absolute pressure cooker as well but it doesnt make for a great spectacle. It was just scrappy, i said the same about the pies game and people got defensive but its a bit of a pattern for us now, weirdly it might be a positive. The Adelaide game wasnt scrappy and they ******* smashed us.

Im not potting Clark here either, i love him and think he gives us something but top 10 feels a stretch.

Steele, King, Higgins, Owens, Wilkie, Sinclair, Nas, Wood, Roma, Gresh and Battle all ahead of him even yesterday where he was good im not sure he was in our 10 best.

Well it's an opinion business and respectively disagree on the game and on Clark.
Was ahead of Wood, Marshall and Battle yesterday, well ahead of Crouch, Seb, and on a par with Steele yesterday ( and it was Steele's best game since the injury).

Anyway, as I said opinion is just that, you have one, I have another, all good

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[Ads734]

He shaped like it was gonna be a long kick too so the defence couldnt telegraph it.

Its a weird thing to say but i was absolutely gobsmacked he missed that sealer in the fourth. For a bloke 6-7 games into his career i would have put the house on that one splitting the middle.

He should have kept running. He’ll get there. Ever touch for him is a learning educational experiance.

 

[phantom13]

Well it's an opinion business and respectively disagree on the game and on Clark.
Was ahead of Wood, Marshall and Battle yesterday, well ahead of Crouch, Seb, and on a par with Steele yesterday ( and it was Steele's best game since the injury).

Anyway, as I said opinion is just that, you have one, I have another, all good

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FWIW i was just listing players generally ahead of him.

For yesterday, one of his best for the year, he was probably right on the fringe of the best 10 on the ground.

My broader point was i cant see him becoming a consistently top 5 player for us, hell have games where he gets coaches and even brownlow votes but by and large if he plays his role and plays like he did yesterday then hes going to keep getting a game. If hes somewhere between 10 and 23rd man picked then our team is in excellent shape. Hes a good player, hes not a star.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Not enough is being said about Max King on here.

4.1 coming from a long injury lay-off is a great return. That pack mark he took at a crucial moment was huge for us too.

He’s done it instantly, perform as expected.

For a 22 year old forward of his quality you’d hope for around 3-4 goals a game on average with some 5-6 goal hauls being a good game. To do it straight after injury is great but hopefully he builds straight into Coleman form.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Clark doesn't scrub many kicks. I'd say his kicking is almost the best in the side especially under pressure. Sam Mitchell played an outstanding career by being excellent at what he did well. I can see Clark getting there. Dunny could run but not kick or handball to a high enough standard.

I think the reality lies somewhere in the middle. If he could create himself space with dynamic movement taking ground his kicking would be a weapon, but he doesnt.

Again thats not the major issue its what he doesnt do when we dont have the ball thats his biggest weakness. He simply cant cover enough ground quickly when the ball gets on the out side. You can see he does try, but its painful to watch an AFL footballer running up and down on the spot. Its the exact reason he can only play short periods through the middle.

Windhager is not being played because of his lack of defensive running. His GPS readings must be poor if he is being over looked for Clark. Clark covers ground but he is genuinely 20 metres behind his opponents, unless its in close.

 

[XhazzafootyX]

Phillipou has great hands

 

[bird_man]

Byrnes did some very good things again

I’d like to see how he’d go in a few centre clearances

 

[Premium]

I just don't see it with Hunter. He gets other posters excited and that's fine but for me he just doesn't do anything well.

He has about 2 kicks and 2 handballs a game that are nice.

Imo won't be anything more than a gop.



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In his defense he has had a bad start to his career with injury and the last few seasons has only played around 13 games a season.
To me this season is the year he has to start to really impress if he is injury free , has his development been hampered by injury and playing on a flank to long - I don't know , but he is a skillful player but in saying that every year in the draft dozens of talented players get introduced in to the AFL and a lot of them might have a bit more drive to make the grade than others.
Just looking at Owens and Windhager during preseason standout out due to there attitude , has Clark got the same hunger.
If he doesn't produce this year he could well see players move ahead of him and knowing his contract is up.

He was a top 10 draft pick and we desperately want him to be a force but as you say he not delivering on the hype.

We all know our midfield is ok , but ok is not enough in todays game - you need the bullockers like Crouch and Steele but you need the other midfielder with that X-Factor and at the moment the only player showing that is Sinclair when he is moved there.
Ross does a job and is not the answer and Hunter has not been setting the world on fire.

It's going to be interesting what the selectors do in the remainder of the season when we come up against Melbourne , Lions and the Cats.

 

[Premium]

Byrnes did some very good things again

I’d like to see how he’d go in a few centre clearances

Could well be better than a few we have in there atm.

 

[Premium]

This is the most consecutive game Hunter has played in a long time. If he can stay fit he will get to the 30 a game level. Just keep at it.

That's true , the more confidence he gets might lift him to the next level.

 

[luca77]

Harvey and Pendlebury had great evasive skills despite not being fast movers. Clark has great vision in traffic and good skills on both sides. I hope Harvs and Lenny can teach him a few tricks so he can get even better at carving his way through and getting clear enough to execute well. Love what he does, but would love to see more of it, and still think there's plenty of improvement in him.
One of the radio commentators initially thought it was Clark who went down. Terrible that it was Mitch, but when they said Clark, I just thought f*** this guy's cursed! He's probably still building confidence with every consecutive game, but I think his form has been good anyway.

 

[Anythings_sipposible]

He’s done it instantly, perform as expected.

For a 22 year old forward of his quality you’d hope for around 3-4 goals a game on average with some 5-6 goal hauls being a good game. To do it straight after injury is great but hopefully he builds straight into Coleman form.

If King averaged 3-4 goals a game with some 5-6 goal games he'd kick close to 100 goals a year. Seems like some pretty big expectations there but I for one support this.

 

[Nutsngum]

If King averaged 3-4 goals a game with some 5-6 goal games he'd kick close to 100 goals a year. Seems like some pretty big expectations there but I for one support this.

He would be neck and neck with Curnow. Not going to happen as King doesnt get 5 frees a game.

 

[parkeysaintertheman]

I love the angry return of the King. Massive maturity step already after watching him last night.

 

[saintbill]

We definitely need more midfield depth but I'm not sure our midfield is as big an impediment as people are making out.

It looks a lot better if Sincs is in there and you factor in Owens and maybe Pou starting to get midfield time.

The issue right now is that Crouch and Steele are very similar. Ross is ordinary, Clark okay but not an A grader. Don't like the idea of Bytel or Windy as they dont offer a point of difference.

Personally, if we are trying to optimise wins this year I think we need Sincs and Gresh getting heavy mid minutes so we have some pace. Throw Owens in there more regularly as well, and Pou occasionally.

Ross can go, Clark can stay but might need to to spend more time at half back to accommodate others.

A regular midfield set-up of Steele, Crouch, Ross and Clark is far too one paced.

 

[aussierulesrules]

ps Ross 12 touches at 50% means he’s gone surely.

He and Crouch aren’t taking us forward to anywhere really meaningful, so if either of them drop right off like Seb is at the moment, it gets really hard to justify keeping him in the team, over someone who is likely to take us somewhere meaningful, like Windy.

It would be one thing if we thought we were a serious premiership chance this year, but surely a midfield with those two in it isn’t taking us that far, so it’s hard to imagine this isn’t a fantastic opportunity to make that change and at the very least see how it goes.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Also, GWS aren't an easy win for travelling teams. Their results in NSW:

• Beat the Crows
• Lost by 10 to Carlton
• Beat Hawks by 2
• Lost to Brisbane by 21
• Beat Sydney
• Lost to the dogs by 15

Teams don't go there and smash them.

Not only did we cost ourselves an easier win by missing so many very gettable goals, but in the first half GWS were extremely accurate, being 7-1 at one stage. That’s unusually accurate, to go with our inaccuracy.

Had it not been for those two factors we would presumably have had a pretty comfortable lead by half time and given how much we dominated the 3rd quarter, we could have gone on for a convincing win.

Not much you can do about another team starting 7-1.

 

[phantom13]

It looks a lot better if Sincs is in there and you factor in Owens and maybe Pou starting to get midfield time.

The issue right now is that Crouch and Steele are very similar. Ross is ordinary, Clark okay but not an A grader. Don't like the idea of Bytel or Windy as they dont offer a point of difference.

Personally, if we are trying to optimise wins this year I think we need Sincs and Gresh getting heavy mid minutes so we have some pace. Throw Owens in there more regularly as well, and Pou occasionally.

Ross can go, Clark can stay but might need to to spend more time at half back to accommodate others.

A regular midfield set-up of Steele, Crouch, Ross and Clark is far too one paced.

I think Windy does, hes a genuine bull with a bit of pace about him (hes also very young and im basing this off potential).

I think the biggest issue is Steele, Crouch and Ross are "one paced" and not evasive. Effectively they are all first recievers so even if they win it, they have no immediate outlet or spread.

If you have Steele and then a Windy or a Gresh or a Sincs or even a Clark they can create space and spread instead of having the ball under tackling pressure in a phone box. Right now were reliant on a big sweeping handball to get it well wide of the congestion to Hill, Nas, Sincs or whatever outside the pack.

We shouldnt ever see Steele, Crouch and Ross in the same centre bounce. Id probably throw Clark into that mix too, you need at least one point of difference cause we dont have a Bont, Trac or Dusty type.

 

[gringo2011]

I think the reality lies somewhere in the middle. If he could create himself space with dynamic movement taking ground his kicking would be a weapon, but he doesnt.

Again thats not the major issue its what he doesnt do when we dont have the ball thats his biggest weakness. He simply cant cover enough ground quickly when the ball gets on the out side. You can see he does try, but its painful to watch an AFL footballer running up and down on the spot. Its the exact reason he can only play short periods through the middle.

Windhager is not being played because of his lack of defensive running. His GPS readings must be poor if he is being over looked for Clark. Clark covers ground but he is genuinely 20 metres behind his opponents, unless its in close.

I think he's playing because he's an excellent extractor and we lack those. Gresham is probably the next best but we prefer him forward. Windhager is yet to prove himself as an inside mid yet despite positive signs. His best games have been as a tagger

 

[phantom13]

Not only did we cost ourselves an easier win by missing so many very gettable goals, but in the first half GWS were extremely accurate, being 7-1 at one stage. That’s unusually accurate, to go with our inaccuracy.

Had it not been for those two factors we would presumably have had a pretty comfortable lead by half time and given how much we dominated the 3rd quarter, we could have gone on for a convincing win.

Not much you can do about another team starting 7-1.

Werent we both 8.3 at halftime?

The issue was more that we missed a shitload in the second half. We went 5.11 to their 4.5 from Halftime onwards, 2.7 in the last quarter.

We should have run out comfortable winners but only really in the last.