Autopsy Round 10 = Collingwood 58-59 Port Adelaide

[TradeDraft]

So many people criticising the coach asking why we didn't make any changes in the first three quarters. Not sure if anyone else watched the same game as me but we were comfortably holding a 2-goal buffer all game, why did we need to change anything?

We changed it up late (when we has to!) more than we have in a very long time, which included Maynard and DeGoey on ball and Pendles nowhere to be seen for the last two centre square bounces. Unheard of for us!

We should try and Build the Lead instead of Holding 2-3 Goal lead for 3 Qtrs.

Bucks Reacting way too late

 

[unplugged]

Wilson did some good things today but I see him as another Shaz. Not big enough to handle the third tall and not quick enough to play on the quicker mid sized and small forwards. He has a no man's land size and pace set.

Agree with this. Doesn't have anything that really sets him apart from others... at least not from what I've seen so far. Happy to give him another chance or two m, though.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

I'm optimistic

We've seen in the last month or so, that young guns such as McCreery, Poulter and Murphy are all up to AFL standard already at their young ages.
I have faith that Macrae, Henry, Bianco, Reef, McMahon, Rantall will all eventually become solid contributors and is a great young core. Add in Nick Daicos and Dib from next years draft, and things start to look more positive.

We've lost by a point to last seasons #1 and #2 on the ladder, we've played good in patches against Sydney and West Coast and we got within less than 3 goals of the best team in the league. We also haven't lost a game by more than 30 points this season, and considering we are 2-8, it shows that we are in most games, and not be blown out with a young team is pleasing because, it can drain energy levels for the kids if they continually get hammered.
All this with our poor skills and horrible game plan. Fix up those issues and we'll be on the up.

I have faith that while this may hurt at the present, we will reap the benefits fairly quickly and that this re-build may only take a year or two.

 

[mwhop]

Give seir a chance.....

I'm a big sier fan - i certainly think he has the tools
but regardless of the reason why, it seems its not going to happen at the pies unless something significant changes

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm optimistic

We've seen in the last month or so, that young guns such as McCreery, Poulter and Murphy are all up to AFL standard already at their young ages.
I have faith that Macrae, Henry, Bianco, Reef, McMahon, Rantall will all eventually become solid contributors and is a great young core. Add in Nick Daicos and Dib from next years draft, and things start to look more positive.

We've lost by a point to last seasons #1 and #2 on the ladder, we've played good in patches against Sydney and West Coast and we got within less than 3 goals of the best team in the league. All that with our poor skills and horrible game plan.

I have faith that while this may hurt at the present, we will reap the benefits fairly quickly and that this re-build may only take a year or two.

and Get the Right People in as Coaches and other Postions in the Footy Department ad well

 

[jathanas]

Same old issues - our seasoned brigade continue to let us down. Sidebottom won’t be at Collingwood in 2022

Grundy was influential to half-time, then fell away.

Crisp was fantastic and clearly our best.

Poulter & McCreery are excellent talents.

De Goey is a victim of putrid delivery, and Maynard was poor again.

John Noble tries hard, but his errors constantly cost us the ultimate result.

Agreed with everything LP.

With regards to Noble, his kick into the ground in the last killed us but until that point he had 23 touches with 78% disposal efficiency and 0 turnovers. Solid game.

I'd be happy if the quality of our list became such that he would no longer warrant a spot in our 22 but right now he is one of the few that creates run.

 

[doppleganger]

So to make it clearer, what did the coaching staff do differently? ie what changes were made?

Did they tell the players to stop the free flowing football, did they put the defenders forward and forwards back? Which players did they tell to stop playing free-flowing and to hold onto the ball so all positions were covered. This is what I would like you to tell me not how the game eventuated as I was there.

The "game plan is woeful" stuff is just lazy.

First off we actually have opponents who are doing their best to stop us playing the game we want....pretty simple answer here being that after Q time our opponents get a rocket and lift their pressure, and that stops us being able to transition the way we would like.

Other part is our best players are quite simply not playing well - we look good when DeGoey, WHE, Sidey, Maynard are up and about.

But in 2021, they have been poor more often than not, and when they are not we look stodgy.

 

[Maggie5]

The "game plan is woeful" stuff is just lazy.

First off we actually have opponents who are doing their best to stop us playing the game we want....pretty simple answer here being that after Q time our opponents get a rocket and lift their pressure, and that stops us being able to transition the way we would like.

Other part is our best players are quite simply not playing well - we look good when DeGoey, WHE, Sidey, Maynard are up and about.

But in 2021, they have been poor more often than not, and when they are not we look stodgy.

You have expressed it well. I am so over the 'game plan' rubbish.

 

[partypie]

And still Collingwood insists that T Brown is a better midfielder than Sier. FMD.

Tyler may not be getting the volume in his possessions yet but he had a few quality touches in the game today where he showed some real poise and quick thinking in traffic when the game was heating up in the last quarter.

I'm very mindful of the fact that a key criticism of Daicos up until last year was not getting his hands on the ball enough and not doing enough with it when he did get it, so I see Tyler as being in a similar position.

It's clear that Tyler isn't better than Sier at this stage (and I'm equally confused about how Sier is not getting a game), but I also think that we need to keep getting games into Tyler as he looks like he's going to be a good one.

 

[loki04]

Boak is 6' tall and build like a brick sh*t house at 85kg.

Bianco isn't even close to that in either dimension at 5'10" and 75kg, so it's probably not reasonable to expect him to do what Boak does given he's probably never going to have the same amount of power in his game.

On the other hand I'm very keen on us finding a good decision maker and user of the ball by foot to be our primary distributor off half back, as that would give our runners in the midfield and half forwards the confidence to spread and hit up more respectively if they know they have someone who can get the ball to them quickly consistently in good spots.

Bianco is slightly shorter but at the same age similarly built. Power is built through the gym plenty of time for him to to it.
Boak was not a massively "big" midfielder just a solid body and manic attack.
Its not about expecting him to be Boak now but develop parts of his game to be similar in strengths especially the hard running lines and spread Boak did.

 

[surfer1]

Cal brown, drop him he’s not up to it.
John Noble, cross goal and backwards, straight to the power and a goal.
He can have a spell as well, that is unacceptable

There were more than Noble.

 

[Billys Back]

We should try and Build the Lead instead of Holding 2-3 Goal lead for 3 Qtrs.

Bucks Reacting way too late

But I suppose the question is whether Buckley is actually instructing them to stop playing how they were and go all defensive or whether the players are falling into those habits once the opposition make necessary adjustments.

So is it the players and their lack of skill or is it the coaching staff failing to counter these adjustments?

 

[Leviathan Pie]

The "game plan is woeful" stuff is just lazy.

First off we actually have opponents who are doing their best to stop us playing the game we want....pretty simple answer here being that after Q time our opponents get a rocket and lift their pressure, and that stops us being able to transition the way we would like.

Other part is our best players are quite simply not playing well - we look good when DeGoey, WHE, Sidey, Maynard are up and about.

But in 2021, they have been poor more often than not, and when they are not we look stodgy.

If you can't see that the game-plan is poor, then I don't think there's much hope for you.

 

[Billys Back]

I'm optimistic

We've seen in the last month or so, that young guns such as McCreery, Poulter and Murphy are all up to AFL standard already at their young ages.
I have faith that Macrae, Henry, Bianco, Reef, McMahon, Rantall will all eventually become solid contributors and is a great young core. Add in Nick Daicos and Dib from next years draft, and things start to look more positive.

We've lost by a point to last seasons #1 and #2 on the ladder, we've played good in patches against Sydney and West Coast and we got within less than 3 goals of the best team in the league. We also haven't lost a game by more than 30 points this season, and considering we are 2-8, it shows that we are in most games, and not be blown out with a young team is pleasing because, it can drain energy levels for the kids if they continually get hammered.
All this with our poor skills and horrible game plan. Fix up those issues and we'll be on the up.

I have faith that while this may hurt at the present, we will reap the benefits fairly quickly and that this re-build may only take a year or two.

everyone seems to have forgotten Macrae. He looked good in his first game. I think he will turn out to be one of the best of the new crop.

 

[legendstatus]

We should really roll the dice with Stengle, can’t help think if we had him today we probably win, small forward line with Elliott McCreey & Stengle changes the mix, along with Checkers Cameron & JDG

Alas we won’t, we’ll pick up another FN basketballer or “Hine” special !


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Tyler may not be getting the volume in his possessions yet but he had a few quality touches in the game today where he showed some real poise and quick thinking in traffic when the game was heating up in the last quarter.

I'm very mindful of the fact that a key criticism of Daicos up until last year was not getting his hands on the ball enough and not doing enough with it when he did get it, so I see Tyler as being in a similar position.

It's clear that Tyler isn't better than Sier at this stage (and I'm equally confused about how Sier is not getting a game), but I also think that we need to keep getting games into Tyler as he looks like he's going to be a good one.

I am not so sure he is going to be a good one, but I am happy for him to get games if Sier is the first inside mid choice. He has his limitations - for instance, his kicking.

 

[Maggie5]

If you can't see that the game-plan is poor, then I don't think there's much hope for you.

Well can you answer what the game plan is. Not how the players play or have played.

Given how the game panned out in the first half, how was the game plan altered so that Port won by a point. What changes were made?

Do you really believe the instructions were to hold on to the ball as long as possible or to not look for options, not make a lead when the ball was heading towards our goal or not try to get separation or telling our defenders to play loose?

I seriously don't get this 'game plan' BS.

Before the game I went to an under 16 game, the coach yelled out instructions from the bench as the players were clearly not playing to instructions. Is that what you want Buckley to do?

 

[Smoothmover8]

Deserved to win that, but currently don’t have the class or cattle to get it done! A much improved performance compared to previous weeks, really shows the importance of Tay Adams.

Defence was great held up really well all day, hats off to Roughy played a great game. The kids were great and are building. Poulter is class, Mccreery a goer, straight kick and great pressure player. IQ could be special.

On the negative. John Noble, I don’t know how he gets let off the hook by so many, they must just look at the stats sheet or his endeavour which admittedly can’t be questioned. How many times this season has he made costly errors by foot in D50 that have cost goals: (answer plenty), has had 2 howlers in the last 2 weeks. Can’t defend one on one, gets easily brushed aside, outmarked, looks a good kick but really isn’t and doesn’t really take the game on even with his pace. There are obviously players performing worse than than him in the side like Cal Brown and Thomas, but how he and them for that matter are guaranteed a game each week is beyond me. I don’t see him as a long term player but due to the fact that he is youngish, our lack of depth, I’d be sending him back to the 2s to work on his weaknesses. Murphy is a much better option and should replace him.

 

[regpies]

Agreed with everything LP.

With regards to Noble, his kick into the ground in the last killed us but until that point he had 23 touches with 78% disposal efficiency and 0 turnovers. Solid game.

I'd be happy if the quality of our list became such that he would no longer warrant a spot in our 22 but right now he is one of the few that creates run.

The ball should never have been in his hands at half back. De Goey got the ball in the corridor at the edge of the centre square from the kick in, down field at the other end of the centre square was a 1 on 1. Instead he kicks sideways 40m to the wing/halfback, then another kick backwards, another across the field sideways.

It was ridiculous to have a quick kick in and the chance to take it on with another quick kick into our forward line. Instead it resulted in a mistake at halfback and a goal that cost the game.

 

[doppleganger]

If you can't see that the game-plan is poor, then I don't think there's much hope for you.

Our "gameplan" isn't for DeGoey to not have any influence, or for Sidey to fumble and miss kicks, or for C.Brown to spray it, or for Noble to shank it directly to Port etc.

Our "gameplan" is actually what we look like when we play well in short spurts.

The coaches set us up and we have played plenty of good 1st quarters - WC, Brisbane, Sydney, Carlton, Port - we look good, can score and are hard to score against. That is how our coaching group want us to play.

Our problem is we don't have the cattle to implement it for a full 4 quarters atm, part of that is kids aren't ready and our supposedly elite players have been pretty ordinary as a collective in 2021.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Well can you answer what the game plan is. Not how the players play or have played.

Given how the game panned out in the first half, how was the game plan altered so that Port won by a point. What changes were made?

Do you really believe the instructions were to hold on to the ball as long as possible or to not look for options, not make a lead when the ball was heading towards our goal or not try to get separation or telling our defenders to play loose?

I seriously don't get this 'game plan' BS.

Before the game I went to an under 16 game, the coach yelled out instructions from the bench as the players were clearly not playing to instructions. Is that what you want Buckley to do?

Considering what appears to be a very specific pattern of starting well, and significant slowing - that supports a broader strategy which is about defence first & limiting game-scoring. It's not good.

We're the slowest ball-moving team in the competition, and while not having the cattle doesn't help - its very obviously an instruction.

Comparing an U/16 coach giving instruction on the sideline is I must admit an absurd example.

 

[partypie]

I am not so sure he is going to be a good one, but I am happy for him to get games if Sier is the first inside mid choice. He has his limitations - for instance, his kicking.

So did Daicos earlier in his career.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying Tyler's kicking will end up as good as Daicos', but he has a different set of strings to his bow anyway so we don't need it to be.

 

[Maggie5]

Considering what appears to be a very specific pattern of starting well, and significant slowing - that supports a broader strategy which is about defence first & limiting game-scoring. It's not good.

We're the slowest ball-moving team in the competition, and while not having the cattle doesn't help - its very obviously an instruction.

Comparing an U/16 coach giving instruction on the sideline is I must admit an absurd example.

Not really absurd but anyway, given your example, you don't think the opposition has a say in how the game enfolds? You don't consider that the opposition coach makes moves?

I agree given our available players to counter act, our options are limited, one can only hope that the players that are/were down lift.

Given the type of player Buckley was I really doubt his first thought would be to tell the players to play slow moving for three quarters or to defend given our current back six. They are not capable nor experienced enough to do it.

 

[Aussie pie]

You have expressed it well. I am so over the 'game plan' rubbish.

I’m over this rubbish game plan but hey let’s keep doing the same things as the last 10 years I’m sure it will change.

 

[Leviathan Pie]

Not really absurd but anyway, given your example, you don't think the opposition has a say in how the game enfolds? You don't consider that the opposition coach makes moves?

I agree given our available players to counter act, our options are limited, one can only hope that the players that are/were down lift.

Given the type of player Buckley was I really doubt his first thought would be to tell the players to play slow moving for three quarters or to defend given our current back six. They are not capable nor experienced enough to do it.

Of course the opposition has a role to play. But we can only control how we play.

Nathan has been a low-scoring, dour coach of his tenure. And that's pretty clear.

It's a shame, as it has cost us dearly over the last decade. Let alone in the current climate. We appear to coach the flare out of players, hopefully with a young crop coming through we can provide them with a platform to allow them to get the best out of themselves. Which hasn't been the case too often of late.