Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[BigPowerForward]

There is a great book called Bullshit Jobs. The book explores the concept of jobs that are considered unnecessary, unfulfilling, and lacking in meaning or purpose. I can only surmise from this thread, that there are people amongst us who have bullshit jobs that only require about 1-2 hours of work daily, and then they fill the rest of their day posting on BigFooty!

 

[Cairnsman]

There is a great book called Bullshit Jobs. The book explores the concept of jobs that are considered unnecessary, unfulfilling, and lacking in meaning or purpose. I can only surmise from this thread, that there are people amongst us who have bullshit jobs that only require about 1-2 hours of work daily, and then they fill the rest of their day posting on BigFooty!

Im financially independent so that’s where I get all my time to make invaluable contributions to the betterment of mankind and humanity …the stuff I know you can’t learn in university, I see it as my duty to share what I know for free, because I can afford to give.

Everybody is welcome!

 

[The Punter]

Oh come on keep it real, it's anything but, what it is is time, time to pull multiple levers, it just doesn't happen over night unless you are a franchise club and gifted an insane amount of draft concessions and given excluse accademy rules that direct a steady stream of talented kids into your club.

It's going to take much longer than 4 years, look at Chris Scott, it took him 11 years to win his first flag ( the 2011 flag was clearly Bombers), and he started with a once in a generation team at the end of their era which he could use to blood new player into, he started with a significant high performance resource and culture, and it still took took him 11 years.

Malthouse the same, took him over 10 years to build a flag list.

It take time, this current regime will need every bit of 10 years...

Firstly, Geelong made a Grand Final and missed the finals once in those 11 years. Where do I sign up for that? Those 11 years were a never-ending cavalcade of hope and expectation for Geelong fans. In Malthouse's ten years 2 grand finals and six finals campaigns.

Also, in Chris Scott's 11 years, did they ever draft in the top 10? No. They developed the talent they had access to. Their 2007-2011 success was heavily reliant on F-S, but they haven't had too many more of those success stories since then. The only draft related thing Geelong seem to do is locate secret local talent (Christensen, Stewart, Mumford etc).

The road via multiple high end picks goes hand-in-hand with non-competitiveness, empty stadiums and an existential crisis that I think we would uniquely face in those circumstances.

Final point on your post - the Northern states are gifted their concessions because they are most favoured amount the AFL's children. When you build flags on F-S (all three of Collingwood's AA selections last season were sons of former players acquired through F-S), it's built on dumb luck. That's why the system should be fixed, but it's also why, as much as practicable, our road to success must be built on the opposite of luck. That means those currently in the club accepting the responsibility for success.

 

[gringo2011]

Im not even particularly worried about losing games right now, the worst outcome would be for us to go on some mystical run and finish 9th or really even 6-9th right now.

The path is clear(ish) to me with what were doing, it confuses me people who think this is a full 10 year rebuild because i just cant really see what were doing that would indicate that at all. Whilst i dont love some elements of it (gamestyle etc) I like you have faith in the club now that i havent had for a long time, thats not gonna stop me from chatting on here about shit i do and dont like.

And I wouldn't want to stop you from doing that.

 

[gringo2011]

There is a great book called Bullshit Jobs. The book explores the concept of jobs that are considered unnecessary, unfulfilling, and lacking in meaning or purpose. I can only surmise from this thread, that there are people amongst us who have bullshit jobs that only require about 1-2 hours of work daily, and then they fill the rest of their day posting on BigFooty!

I'm probably the single most unproductive person in history.

 

[gringo2011]

Firstly, Geelong made a Grand Final and missed the finals once in those 11 years. Where do I sign up for that? Those 11 years were a never-ending cavalcade of hope and expectation for Geelong fans. In Malthouse's ten years 2 grand finals and six finals campaigns.

Also, in Chris Scott's 11 years, did they ever draft in the top 10? No. They developed the talent they had access to. Their 2007-2011 success was heavily reliant on F-S, but they haven't had too many more of those success stories since then. The only draft related thing Geelong seem to do is locate secret local talent (Christensen, Stewart, Mumford etc).

The road via multiple high end picks goes hand-in-hand with non-competitiveness, empty stadiums and an existential crisis that I think we would uniquely face in those circumstances.

Final point on your post - the Northern states are gifted their concessions because they are most favoured amount the AFL's children. When you build flags on F-S (all three of Collingwood's AA selections last season were sons of former players acquired through F-S), it's built on dumb luck. That's why the system should be fixed, but it's also why, as much as practicable, our road to success must be built on the opposite of luck. That means those currently in the club accepting the responsibility for success.

They had an anatomy of a trade for the Cats. They'd traded a player like that kid had traded a paperclip for a house. Because they are a good system, people covet their trash and overpay for it. We have a stain hanging over us so our not quite players are delisted once they are done. They could track their trade for Cameron back to one started in 2004.

 

[The Punter]

They had an anatomy of a trade for the Cats. They'd traded a player like that kid had traded a paperclip for a house. Because they are a good system, people covet their trash and overpay for it. We have a stain hanging over us so our not quite players are delisted once they are done. They could track their trade for Cameron back to one started in 2004.

What did they start doing in the early 2000s that turned them around? They weren't drafting high, or had any concessions (other than the F-S available to every club luck to have a former player talented at siring talented sons), or had a huge membership, or made much money from their ground (at the time, that changed).

And whatever the answer is, why can't we do that?

TL;DR: enough excuses.

 

[gringo2011]

What did they start doing in the early 2000s that turned them around? They weren't drafting high, or had any concessions (other than the F-S available to every club luck to have a former player talented at siring talented sons), or had a huge membership, or made much money from their ground (at the time, that changed).

And whatever the answer is, why can't we do that?

TL;DR: enough excuses.

The first second and third things you need to do is nail the picks you do have. Getting guys like Keeler, Hotton, Schoenmaker, Garcia and Hastie with later picks is good business. All still have very high potential. Even Van Es looks good enough if he gets his body right. If we can get 4 best 22 players out of that group and even a couple who are top 10 players it gives us a massive boost.


Geelong got Holmes with the pick we traded to Richmond to get Snags. Sometimes you just have to get the basics right and develop your own instead of trying to rush the process.

 

[bergholt]

What did they start doing in the early 2000s that turned them around? They weren't drafting high, or had any concessions (other than the F-S available to every club luck to have a former player talented at siring talented sons), or had a huge membership, or made much money from their ground (at the time, that changed).

And whatever the answer is, why can't we do that?

TL;DR: enough excuses.

They got lucky, we should definitely try to do that too.

 

[Chuckie357]

That's pretty disrespectful. Lyon may not be as glamorous as the new kids on the block, but he's got a pretty good record with system based footy, which is something which has been one of our weak points for a long time.

Talent is clearly not the only problem we face, but we knew what we were getting into, the Pres warned us it was a long term solution requiring short term pain, I am willing to wait because I want us to do it properly, no sugar hits and soft calls.

Most of the people who are dubious on Lyon are mostly concerned with playing style, but I didn't hear too many Saints supporters complaining in 2008‐2010 when we were feared around the league. Ok we don't have Hayes, Riewoldt and Milne now, but Ross's strength is that he is system, not talent based. Don't hear too many people complaining in the first part of last season either.

We need a circuit breaker, a bit of form reversal and a few more special players, and our games will start to look a lot better, and not just because of the results. Right now our players can't execute, because they don't believe in themselves or each other. No coach is so fantastic that they can control players' minds and emotions. Let's see how we're going once it clicks.

First part of last season we played free flowing attacking football and it worked and looked fantastic, then when all the key players came back he changed the game style to what it is now. Blokes a dinosaur, he’s washed up and this club is pathetic for getting him back. Nothing is going to click because he doesn’t take any responsibility for anything and the players have clearly had enough already by how their playing and body language. When he leaves us as a genuine basket case do you think he will feel bad?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

If you trade in, make it a good trade, ie Dangerfield. Cameron.
If you draft, read the draft well and get the best you can get. ie: if the draft is stacked full of great talls don't draft a mid and vs versa.
If you trade draft picks, don't trade from a strong draft.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

First part of last season we played free flowing attacking football and it worked and looked fantastic, then when all the key players came back he changed the game style to what it is now. Blokes a dinosaur, he’s washed up and this club is pathetic for getting him back. Nothing is going to click because he doesn’t take any responsibility for anything and the players have clearly had enough already by how their playing and body language. When he leaves us as a genuine basket case do you think he will feel bad?

That also happened throughout 2009.
As the season went on, we got more and more defensive , until our victories were hardly there.

 

[stfan]

There is a great book called Bullshit Jobs. The book explores the concept of jobs that are considered unnecessary, unfulfilling, and lacking in meaning or purpose. I can only surmise from this thread, that there are people amongst us who have bullshit jobs that only require about 1-2 hours of work daily, and then they fill the rest of their day posting on BigFooty!

It is called retirement for many