Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[Miha]

George is reading this. I can feel him

 

[gringo2011]

So just completely rite off that data? Do your assessment and planning on a vacuum of a years worth of results?

Nah, I can assure you that’s not what happens.

Not everything but you certainly don't want to follow it as a form line. Sides that finish oil the bottom half of the 8 are the one vulnerable to dropping out. The sides just outside can go either way depending on the cycle etc. The bottom 3 or 4 are usually in build up mode. Most aren't going for wins. Finishing there is definitely not a good result unless you are looking for high picks.

 

[phantom13]

No you didn't...you yelled Bullshit...go back up and read it.

Called bullshit on us “severely” overachieving.

All bent outta shape on that and I’m the emotional one.

Right. You know I wrote about 12,000 other words on it, most which noted that we did overachieve but ultimately still finished 6th and could have gone somewhere near that again without the injuries and shitful gameplan.

But you go right on getting all upset about the word bullshit.

 

[phantom13]

Not everything but you certainly don't want to follow it as a form line. Sides that finish oil the bottom half of the 8 are the one vulnerable to dropping out. The sides just outside can go either way depending on the cycle etc. The bottom 3 or 4 are usually in build up mode. Most aren't going for wins. Finishing there is definitely not a good result unless you are looking for high picks.

Right, so pretty much exactly what I said.

Glad we got there.

 

[phantom13]

George is reading this. I can feel him

The great man always looms large.

 

[littlecreatures]

Im not hysterical at all.

We "severely" overachieved.

Bullshit.

Youre saying full rebuild then, cool, strap in for 20 years, i think its a touch up.

I also have no agenda, ive said it over and over and over, i dont want Ross sacked, i just want some level of accountability for him.

Youre the one advocating for giving him 10 years to just **** about. That sounds much more agenda driven than having some acountability.

So, if we’re going to boil this down to the crux, you actually think Ross Lyon lacks accountability right now?

He’s under significant pressure right now, at least we know externally given media and public’s attention lately around poor performances, and I’d hate to know what that looks like internally with a playing group at its lowest.

It’s pretty obvious the playing group overachieved last year, that said, there’s a lot of factors which go into having a successful season, and also having a negative season likely this one.

 

[Cairnsman]

Called bullshit on us “severely” overachieving.

All bent outta shape on that and I’m the emotional one.

Right. You know I wrote about 12,000 other words on it, most which noted that we did overachieve but ultimately still finished 6th and could have gone somewhere near that again without the injuries and shitful gameplan.

But you go right on getting all upset about the word bullshit.

12 000 words....WoW.

We could have possibly achieved 6th if everything went right for us, but the middle of the ladder is not where we want to be...its why we over achieved last year which is a widely accepted POV, Lyon has been given mandate to rebuild. Its why it was widely accepted we would slide this year because he communicated his plan to blood kids.

You called Bullahit on that because you think gameplan would get our list up to 6th....have I got that right?

 

[phantom13]

So, if we’re going to boil this down to the crux, you actually think Ross Lyon lacks accountability right now?

He’s under significant pressure right now, at least we know externally given media and public’s attention lately around poor performances, and I’d hate to know what that looks like internally with a playing group at its lowest.

It’s pretty obvious the playing group overachieved last year, that said, there’s a lot of factors which go into having a successful season, and also having a negative season likely this one.

I have no doubt he’s got accountability internally. For the first time in a long time I actually think our governance structure makes sense.

I’m a little worried about the pack of buddies he has around him coaching and how willing and able they are to challenge him but I’m also not there and they’re all high performers who hate to lose.

I’m not sure where this notion that I think we didn’t overachieve last season has come from, I’ve explicitly stated we did a few times, I just don’t think it’s even possible to “severely” over achieve on a ladder position in the afl. Ultimately we were a 6th-10th team last year. We hit our ceiling and not our floor.

By most people’s measure we improved the list and got some kids experience last year so we should have improved in some areas (likely not reflected in ladder position because harder draw etc).

I’m fine with us taking a step back to take two forward but it looks to me like we’re taking ALOT of steps back and if we’re doing that (full rebuild) I think that’s a mistake.

The list isn’t complete shit, it’s got good bones and some stuff to build off, quick dip, hit the draft, pinch a needs FA with the war chest and back to contend in a year or two.

This 10 year full rebuild right as Tassie wil cook the draft for 4+ years is, to me, utter insanity.

 

[phantom13]

12 000 words....WoW.

We could have possibly achieved 6th if everything went right for us, but the middle of the ladder is not where we want to be...its why we over achieved last year which is a widely accepted POV, Lyon has been given mandate to rebuild. Its why it was widely accepted we would slide this year because he communicated his plan to blood kids.

You called Bullahit on that because you think gameplan would get our list up to 6th....have I got that right?

No unsurprisingly, yet again, you’ve completely missed the point.

Let’s just move on.

 

[littlecreatures]

I have no doubt he’s got accountability internally. For the first time in a long time I actually think our governance structure makes sense.

I’m a little worried about the pack of buddies he has around him coaching and how willing and able they are to challenge him but I’m also not there and they’re all high performers who hate to lose.

I’m not sure where this notion that I think we didn’t overachieve last season has come from, I’ve explicitly stated we did a few times, I just don’t think it’s even possible to “severely” over achieve on a ladder position in the afl. Ultimately we were a 6th-10th team last year. We hit our ceiling and not our floor.

By most people’s measure we improved the list and got some kids experience last year so we should have improved in some areas (likely not reflected in ladder position because harder draw etc).

I’m fine with us taking a step back to take two forward but it looks to me like we’re taking ALOT of steps back and if we’re doing that (full rebuild) I think that’s a mistake.

The list isn’t complete shit, it’s got good bones and some stuff to build off, quick dip, hit the draft, pinch a needs FA with the war chest and back to contend in a year or two.

This 10 year full rebuild right as Tassie wil cook the draft for 4+ years is, to me, utter insanity.

I honestly don’t know what the point being made is anymore. He came in with a mandate to restructure an under performing footy department which had made deplorable decisions, he got rid of those underperforming, kept the good ones and here we are. They’re doing their job. This isn’t a linear path.

 

[StFly]

 

[phantom13]

I honestly don’t know what the point being made is anymore. He came in with a mandate to restructure an under performing footy department which had made deplorable decisions, he got rid of those underperforming, kept the good ones and here we are. They’re doing their job. This isn’t a linear path.

Under performing but over achieving…

Interesting take.

I’ll be as simple as possible.

If we’re doing a quick on the fly drop (implement this gameplan, one year at the draft, grab an FA) to contend in 2025/2026. Sign me up, great idea and the current pain is fine.

If this is a proper gut and rebuild the whole lot and as per Cairnsmans 10 year stick fat plan then Ross is a snake oil salesman and it won’t be 10 it’ll be 15+ if ever.

I had a bunch of other shit going in with that (concern the gameplan is doing more harm than good for one) but that’s the crux.

Ultimately no one really knows which of those Ross has been tasked with regardless of what they say so really we’re all just speculating anyway.

 

[Cairnsman]

No unsurprisingly, yet again, you’ve completely missed the point.

Let’s just move on.

Maybe use less words...12000 is a lot

 

[phantom13]

Maybe use less words...12000 is a lot

Fair.

 

[StFly]

Maybe use less words...12000 is a lot

I've got a couple

 

[Miha]

What on green earth is happening in the barramundi thread?

 

[True Believer]

i dont want Ross sacked, i just want some level of accountability for him.

Can you describe what that looks like, "accountability for the coach" because I think that's where this goes off the rails. Do the board come out every Monday and hold up scorecards out of 10 for the weekends coaching performance? Do they take 50% of his pay for the week if we lose? Does Ross have to appear on TV after every loss and deliver a Mea Culpa?

The only real accountability for a coach is to lose his job, or renew his contract, so that's why I personally struggle to understand what it is you are demanding..........

 

[phantom13]

Can you describe what that looks like, "accountability for the coach" because I think that's where this goes off the rails. Do the board come out every Monday and hold up scorecards out of 10 for the weekends coaching performance? Do they take 50% of his pay for the week if we lose? Does Ross have to appear on TV after every loss and deliver a Mea Culpa?

The only real accountability for a coach is to lose his job, or renew his contract, so that's why I personally struggle to understand what it is you are demanding..........

Respectfully this convos been done to death and was had with people stating that he shouldn’t be under any pressure for his 4 year tenure because we’re rebuilding.

 

[Cairnsman]

I've got a couple

I'm way beyond help...

 

[Cairnsman]

Respectfully this convos been done to death and was had with people stating that he shouldn’t be under any pressure for his 4 year tenure because we’re rebuilding.

Who said that?

 

[True Believer]

Respectfully this convos been done to death and was had with people stating that he shouldn’t be under any pressure for his 4 year tenure because we’re rebuilding.

Respectfully, I disagree. People can waffle on all they like about whether we should keep or sack our coach, it makes three fifths of five eighths of **** all difference to what the club will do. My specific question was out of genuine curiosity, and I don't think anyone asked it - what does "accountability for the coach" mean, what does it look like?

 

[phantom13]

Respectfully, I disagree. People can waffle on all they like about whether we should keep or sack our coach, it makes three fifths of five eighths of **** all difference to what the club will do. My specific question was out of genuine curiosity, and I don't think anyone asked it - what does "accountability for the coach" mean, what does it look like?

No it actually got asked very directly and I responded I don’t know, I’m not a high performance coach or director of coaching (it was regarding kpis and progress, great chat it was tbh)

I made the point like 5 post ago that I’m mostly confident he’s got accountability internally, my post, and remember it is my post you’re asking about, was noting I’m sure internally he’s got it, externally a bunch of posters want us to just let him do what he pleases…

Who said that?

Contrary to belief of me being emotional, I don’t keep a list of disagreements I have on bigfooty.

Posters, in threads around here.

I’ll forget I had a disagreement with you by the time I tuck myself in tonight.

 

[True Believer]

No it actually got asked very directly and I responded I don’t know, I’m not a high performance coach or director of coaching (it was regarding kpis and progress, great chat it was tbh)

I made the point like 5 post ago that I’m mostly confident he’s got accountability internally, my post, and remember it is my post you’re asking about, was noting I’m sure internally he’s got it, externally a bunch of posters want us to just let him do what he pleases…
Contrary to belief of me being emotional, I don’t keep a list of disagreements I have on bigfooty.

Posters, in threads around here.

I’ll forget I had a disagreement with you by the time I tuck myself in tonight.

Cheers. I don't have time to read all the threads in their entirety so I probably skipped over it.......

 

[Cairnsman]

No it actually got asked very directly and I responded I don’t know, I’m not a high performance coach or director of coaching (it was regarding kpis and progress, great chat it was tbh)

I made the point like 5 post ago that I’m mostly confident he’s got accountability internally, my post, and remember it is my post you’re asking about, was noting I’m sure internally he’s got it, externally a bunch of posters want us to just let him do what he pleases…
Contrary to belief of me being emotional, I don’t keep a list of disagreements I have on bigfooty.

Posters, in threads around here.

I’ll forget I had a disagreement with you by the time I tuck myself in tonight.

Just remember you had the disagreement with me, and not the other way around as I always was secure in the knowledge my POV was the correct one.

Sleep well and come back fresh tomorrow.

 

[phantom13]

Just remember you had the disagreement with me, and not the other way around as I always was secure in the knowledge my POV was the correct one.

Sleep well and come back fresh tomorrow.

Yeh can’t really be correct on opinions but sure thing.