Autopsy Round 11, 2024: Melbourne v St.Kilda

[Pakenhamsaint]

Steele this week.

Steele isn't that good a player. Its that simple. He's not getting a game in many other teams.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Just wondering if it is a game plan issue when your players can’t hit a 2 metre handball of 15 metre kick can’t hold basic marks make countless bad decisions with ball in hand .

I would argue that until our players can execute the fundamental essential basics of the game on a consistent basis that the game plan will be hard to improve or bed down .

Seriously how many players out there today do you see with the ball and go where this will go.

Not defending Lyon but these are the basic facts are skills and decision making are appealing .

This. It was just so obvious today.
And it’s not the kids. It’s Ross. It’s Bonner. It’s Wood.
The turnovers were terrible.
And so much fumbling.

 

[Veer Right]

West Coast are favourites next week

Fmd, this was a team that was historically bad last year. This club is cooked.

Good value too the eagles.

Saints won 1 of our last 5 which was against the bottom feeders at home.
Eagles won 1 of the last 5 against the demons at home.

Eagles home game.

Neither team has a single match winner.
McGov does save goals so that's something.

Both teams have good defences. Weak midfields. Eagles forwards function while the saints is on life support.

 

[ihaveacrushonratts]

Sacking Lyon makes us no better off - we’re so far off the mark this season, no doubt about it. But last year Lyon was heralded for turning this club around by many. Most of our talented players are 23 and under, can’t expect too much without a good spread of talent and experience across the park. We defs overachieved last season and that has skewed expectations. Just need to build around the young talent and hope for the best

 

[saintbill]

What’s the answer than? Do the saints thing and sack another coach?

I would let him see the year out, then put him on notice if 2025 is anything remotely close to this he is done.

You have to still sell memberships. Lyon's brand of footy will destroy us. Nobody will show up, no memberships will be sold.

I had Dees mates texting me they were leaving the game half way though the 3rd qrt because they can't sit through Saints games. We are that insipid it is simply unendurable to watch.

Maybe another coach can't do better (I doubt that), but let's assume it's true. It sure AF would not be this ugly. We are kicking 9 goals ffs.

Watch a Tigers game compared to us. They are crap, but it is still watchable. They try and use the corridor, take risks.

 

[phantom13]

Good value too the eagles.

Saints won 1 of our last 5 which was against the bottom feeders at home.
Eagles won 1 of the last 5 against the demons at home.

Eagles home game.

Neither team has a single match winner.
McGov does save goals so that's something.

Both teams have good defences. Weak midfields. Eagles forwards function while the saints is on life support.

Reid and Waterman, Yeo if fit too.

 

[Sully111]

Ross's presser was confusing at best.

He just keeps deflecting.

It's the last thing I want to see.

Tells me he doesn't have the answers.

 

[Miha]

Ross's presser was confusing at best.

He just keeps deflecting.

It's the last thing I want to see.

Tells me he doesn't have the answers.

Probably so much you’d want to say to the public. Probably very different discussion inside the 4 walls

 

[Sully111]

Probably so much you’d want to say to the public. Probably very different discussion inside the 4 walls

He's making excuses that don't stack up.

 

[Premium]

Sacking Lyon makes us no better off - we’re so far off the mark this season, no doubt about it. But last year Lyon was heralded for turning this club around by many. Most of our talented players are 23 and under, can’t expect too much without a good spread of talent and experience across the park. We defs overachieved last season and that has skewed expectations. Just need to build around the young talent and hope for the best

To Ross Lyons defense - our midfield has totally collapsed , but playing Seb Ross as a core midfielder every week shows he is not willing to experiment with players in the squad and when he knows the midfield wins or loses the game he needs to be moved on.

 

[Miha]

To Ross Lyons defense - our midfield has totally collapsed , but playing Seb Ross as a core midfielder every week shows he is not willing to experiment with players in the squad and when he knows the midfield wins or loses the game he needs to be moved on.

The real Ross Lyon would dump Seb permanently and throw together a new midfield core with Owens

 

[gringo2011]

His commentary and notes were based on retention, not movement though. Of course we retain the ball cause we don’t attack with it.

It’s equally as easy to find a stat to defend Ross if that’s your angle but lemme tell you, there’s ALOT of long term data and stats to show Ross is a defense first coach. I did them to death all ****ing week and I actually was hoping to find maybe I was wrong.

All his talk when he took over was how much he rated Geelong's game under Scott. You can see similarities but Geelong are cleaner, better drilled and have some much better top end players but not heaps.

 

[pebblesofsand]

So if he got 6-7 years you don't think that would be worthy of a Band 1?
I'd be suggesting any long term deal like that would definitely bring with it talk of Band 1.
What is he 26? Easily got plenty of years in front of him.

Yep mathematically possible that if someone was silly enough to pay 7 x $1M for Battle, that would get us Band 1 comp.

But then again its also mathematically possible that we don't lose again this year, win the flag and our Band 1 comp would then be Pick 19.

 

[The Cobra]

I gotta admit I looked at Steeles stats midway through the last and was absolutely shocked. 30 odd and a goal is a good game by any standards but if someone told me he had 15 handballs and 50 metres gained I would have believed it.

Roma is a bit more difficult. Ultimately to me the issue with him is that he’s not a good ruckman but he’s a handy extra onballer. Max gave him a bath today by absolutely belting him in the ruck and ensuring he was engaged enough to not be able to follow it up. Neat trick from Max and one that only like 3 ruckmen in the comp can actually do.

Roma is such an odd player and I’m loathe to criticize cause I know I’m overly negative but a lot of his stats are really misleading. Has a shitload of clearances but they’re not effective, has a lot of disposals but he’s not damaging with them. I’m really at a loss with Roma tbh.

Re Roma - fair comment but he is an excellent follower and ordinary tap ruckman. Overall, he is still one of the best 3 or 4 Rucks in the AFL based on his performances over the last few years - don’t forget he towelled up Briggs from GWS a month or so ago who is no mug.

Now to today - he had a very bad day and was towelled up by the best ruckman in the last 10 years supported by an elite midfield who made him look even better. He would be embarrassed - but he was well beaten by an elite talent & a huge man ( he walked down the footpath outside my place a few weeks ago & I saw the shadow before I saw him!) It happens. Let’s see how he bounces back against WCE. Plenty of teams would open a huge cheque book to get Marshall in their team.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Ross might be a great coach at training and systems (to some) but his game style is outdated and wrong and he is stubbornly refusing to make the changes required to bring the team forward.
The players aren’t enjoying their footy and it shows.

 

[Premium]

All his talk when he took over was how much he rated Geelong's game under Scott. You can see similarities but Geelong are cleaner, better drilled and have some much better top end players but not heaps.

Gringo the difference is they have a midfield , we don't --- not until they fix it will we see any of his planned game plan / Lyon would be pulling his hair out but continuing play Seb is going to cause his downfall.

 

[Saint Watto]

Turgid, dreadful football from us.

Most of you seem to think building a successful AFL football team is basically about building a list.

It’s just not.

It’s about having a gameplan and style that is up-to-date and, most importantly, develops players.

Ross Lyon’s gameplan is so far behind the league it isn’t funny.

Even worse is that, his horrible defensive style only works with squads that are contending.

His style with a developing squad is an absolute disaster.

If you’re for some reason sticking up for what our club has become under Bassat’s horrendous decision making (Ross Lyon FC), you are part of the problem.

The very existence of our club demands that long term members and supporters hold our board accountable.

These board members are so far removed from understanding the trends of the modern game it is laughable.

But just watch them go into damage control now and blame the “list”.

It’s so predictable, and most of you will fall for it (in fact, lots already are, see lots of list blaming lately).

A great post there Narkles and great to see you post again.

I've missed your analytical takes on the game.

I've known that you weren't an RTB fan from day 1.

Some very serious soul searching must happen at Rsea now.

Something is very very wrong.

 

[Saint Watto]

I'm surprisingly Zen about the result.

Sure I'm 46 beers in

I reckon 46 beers would have you slightly more than Zen Pakenham.

You'd be about to go into orbit..

 

[The Cobra]

Ha ha - so I did - my stuff up. The tranquilisers are eventually kicking in.

Anyway just to confirm - we won't be getting a Top 5 pick for Battle if he leaves.

Early 20's at best

Don’t pretend to understand the system like you - so if early 20’s for Battle is the go - it would be lunacy to let him leave.

 

[Premium]

A great post there Narkles and great to see you post again.

I've missed your analytical takes on the game.

I've known that you weren't an RTB fan from day 1.

Some very serious soul searching must happen at Rsea now.

Something is very very wrong.

He is 100% right

 

[Saint Watto]

Tank time. Top 4 draft pick coming.

It's very sad season wise....but it's reality.

 

[luca77]

Yep mathematically possible that if someone was silly enough to pay 7 x $1M for Battle, that would get us Band 1 comp.

But then again its also mathematically possible that we don't lose again this year, win the flag and our Band 1 comp would then be Pick 19.

Somehow you just lifted my spirits and gave me hope again.

 

[gringo2011]

Gringo the difference is they have a midfield , we don't --- not until they fix it will we see any of his planned game plan / Lyon would be pulling his hair out but continuing play Seb is going to cause his downfall.

They don't actually have an elite midfield. I think that's why Lyon rated them. A lot of good outside run but their kicking and skills look better. They dropped away last year when tested by injury. Cameron, Stewart and Danger are their absolute cream The rest are good but not outstanding.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

As I said at the time. Taking Hill Howard and others instead of drafting our own was absolutely the time we should have been doing what we need to do still. Who rebuilds upside down by trying to draft after you build a side full of average middling talent?

Because we'd drafted so badly since 2003, we'd been bleeding with players leaving faster than we could replace them.
That meant we were going to play gops one way or another.
But you're correct , at some point we should have just drafted the best we could and topped up with VFL players and the like.
4 years at the bottom then we would have risen.

 

[The Cobra]

To Ross Lyons defense - our midfield has totally collapsed , but playing Seb Ross as a core midfielder every week shows he is not willing to experiment with players in the squad and when he knows the midfield wins or loses the game he needs to be moved on.

He is definitely rolling the dice desperately trying to come up with a better combination - midfield over the last few weeks has comprised Steele, Ross, Windy, Sincs, Dow, Henry, Owens, Jones, Pou (& probably some I have missed). Not sure there are too many more to experiment with.

Ps I agree Ross is not the way forward.