Autopsy Round 15, 2023: St.Kilda v Brisbane *SPUD'S GAME* *CROUCH 150TH* *MARSHALL 100TH*

[Sun Ra]

I flew over thinking we’d beat Collingwood to go top of the ladder undefeated and it would be a grand final preview

Check yourself in unless you have recovered from your visions. Otherwise PM me your source.

 

[CaptainRisky]

I flew over thinking we’d beat Collingwood to go top of the ladder undefeated and it would be a grand final preview

Yeah we know you're kidding

 

[Sun Ra]

Yeah we know you're kidding

Or else the drugs are something else.

 

[George]

Pou and Owens to the mid because they’re mids.

Membrane and Sharman forward because they’re forwards.

Won’t win many but will form a foundation for the kids to build from.

Loved Paton pre-break but he’s no longer AFL standard. Byrnes never was.

Grab a proper leader in the offy if we can because we have a damp flannel for a captain atm and it will be a while until Owens/Windy/Pou are ready.

jj let’s drop all our capital on the two blonde wonders that will move us backwards sideways.

The offy.

That comes after the Grandy doesn't it?

 

[Dard Ball Get]

The offy.

That comes after the Grandy doesn't it?

Sure does, Slick! Look at those synapses of yours firing!

 

[George]

Sure does, Slick! Look at those synapses of yours firing!

Good luck with your colonoscopy next weekend. Maybe they'll find your brain in there.

 

[BrutThough]

The doom & gloom in this forum at the moment is a bit ridiculous. Coming in with my first post to provide some much-needed perspective. So far this season:

Wins against

• Essendon: 5th (18 points)
• Bulldogs: 7th (51 points)
• GWS: 11th (12 points)
• Gold Coast: 12th (53 points)
• Fremantle: 13th (15 points)
• Carlton: 14th (22 points)
• Sydney: 15th (14 points)
• North: 17th (30 points

Losses against:

• Port: 1st (7 points)
• Collingwood: 2nd (6 points)
• Brisbane: 3rd (28 points)
• Richmond: 9th (20 points)
• Crows: 8th (52 points)
• Hawks: 16th (10 points)

Key takeaways

• We're 0-3 against the top 4 sides (elite sides), with an avg losing margin of 13 points, and we've been in all of those games
  • In comparison, we were 1-5 against top 4 sides last year (melb/syd/cats/pies), with an avg losing margin of 33 points, with the one win against Geelong by 10 points.
• We're 4-2 against sides 5th-12th (middle of the pack sides), with an avg winning margin of 33 points
  • In comparison, we had a losing record of 4-5 against sides placed 5-12th last year, with an avg winning margin of 21 points
• We're 4-1 against sides placed 13th-18th (bottom sides), with an avg winning margin of 20 points
  • In comparison, we were 6-1 against sides placed 13th-18th last year, with an avg winning margin of 33 points

Whilst the overall win/loss is not vastly different, the margins are. That can not be understated.

• Lyon has us playing a brand of footy that keeps us in games against the top sides
• Ratten had us playing more attacking, so we looked great against the poor sides, but couldn't match it with sides around us or above us.

Realistically, we are a 5th-12th place side and our results reflect that. We were never pushing top 4 this year, and the club knows that.

We will play finals this year because of our soft draw, but I expect further improvement next year, albeit finishing in similar 5th-8th position.

2025 we should be in a position to finish top 4 once our youngsters develop further and we clear out some of our underperforming senior players.

Yes, the footy we are playing is dour, but we have to play that way to get results because we don't yet have the talent to go toe-to-toe with the elite sides yet.

Things are never as bad as they seem, nor ever as good as they seem.

Great observation about our change in style and it being more competitive against the best.

Paul Roos has always been big on developing the defensive side of your game first before adding in the offence so hopefully that's the blueprint we are following for the next year fews.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Yeah we know you're kidding

I genuinely did fly over. Not delusionally believing we’d win but more “**** it if we end up winning I can’t miss this”.

First interstate trip for the footy and a loss

 

[RBW_007]

On defece of our mids, got to say Marshall made it very difficult for our mids at clearance at times. Clearance will be hard when your ruckman puts it straight to the oppo

I know that getting a ruck tap directly to a team-mate isn't the easiest thing to do, but surely Roma can at least hit it in the direction of one. Not sure if I've seen a ruckman hit it to where there's not one, but 2 opposition players more than Marshall. He almost tapped it down Baileys throat last night running straight at goal.

Maybe it's partly the midfielders fault for not manning up. Maybe Roma needs to make himself more aware of how we're setup. Either way he and our midfielder need to be on the same page and communicate or have some idea or plan of how to structure at throw ins and ball ups.

Not sure on the stats but it would be easier to create scoring opportunities from stoppages around the central part of a ground when both teams are looking to win the the ball, rather than relying on turnovers when the opposition can push back. I feel like if Roma could improve his ruckwork, he could be one of the best in the league because his other footy attributes are above most other ruckman going around.

 

[AirWinmar]

I know that getting a ruck tap directly to a team-mate isn't the easiest thing to do, but surely Roma can at least hit it in the direction of one. Not sure if I've seen a ruckman hit it to where there's not one, but 2 opposition players more than Marshall. He almost tapped it down Baileys throat last night running straight at goal.

Maybe it's partly the midfielders fault for not manning up. Maybe Roma needs to make himself more aware of how we're setup. Either way he and our midfielder need to be on the same page and communicate or have some idea or plan of how to structure at throw ins and ball ups.

Not sure on the stats but it would be easier to create scoring opportunities from stoppages around the central part of a ground when both teams are looking to win the the ball, rather than relying on turnovers when the opposition can push back. I feel like if Roma could improve his ruckwork, he could be one of the best in the league because his other footy attributes are above most other ruckman going around.

Yeah he really needs to improve his tap work. So good around the ground, but it makes it hard for our mids if our ruckman palms it to the oppo. It's different if their ruckman wins the tap, then you try and shark it or go to your opponent.

 

[Premium]

Great observation about our change in style and it being more competitive against the best.

Paul Roos has always been big on developing the defensive side of your game first before adding in the offence so hopefully that's the blueprint we are following for the next year fews.

I'm thinking Steele is totally cooked due them making him drop weight to try to increase his endurance and once he obtained that train wreck of a collar bone injury all the core strength he had has gone - really feel he needs to have a good long spell and get back to his fighting weight.
Same goes with Gresham , had his best year last year this he is a shadow of himself - even if that was hot and cold.
Howard gone from bad to worse.
Forward line just seems undermanned due to system of playing a man in defense and the midfield being whipped most weeks.

Just so frustrating seeing the guys fall off a cliff again half way through the season.

Not having Steele pick up his 30 touches a game in the middle is hurting us badly in the midfield.

Only one thing good about this we a pumping games into Milera , Owens , Windhager , Hammer and hopefully by the end of the year guys like Hayes , Coffield , Jones , McKenzie , Billings will give us a bit of a freshen up.

 

[Premium]

I know that getting a ruck tap directly to a team-mate isn't the easiest thing to do, but surely Roma can at least hit it in the direction of one. Not sure if I've seen a ruckman hit it to where there's not one, but 2 opposition players more than Marshall. He almost tapped it down Baileys throat last night running straight at goal.

Maybe it's partly the midfielders fault for not manning up. Maybe Roma needs to make himself more aware of how we're setup. Either way he and our midfielder need to be on the same page and communicate or have some idea or plan of how to structure at throw ins and ball ups.

Not sure on the stats but it would be easier to create scoring opportunities from stoppages around the central part of a ground when both teams are looking to win the the ball, rather than relying on turnovers when the opposition can push back. I feel like if Roma could improve his ruckwork, he could be one of the best in the league because his other footy attributes are above most other ruckman going around.

The way our midfield is even if our mids were feed they fumble it

 

[gringo2011]

I turned off before half time but I thought Battle made some very low IQ plays.
Like vegetable dribble level plays.

At the ground it must have looked better. He was really aggressive and attacking. I thought he stepped up with Sinclair out of the back 6.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

At the ground it must have looked better. He was really aggressive and attacking. I thought he stepped up with Sinclair out of the back 6.

Will take your word for it, I’ve gone full nuff having an opinion when I turned the shite off

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Just dropped 80 kills on cod so all is well in the world again

 

[gringo2011]

I wasn’t there and that’s usually a lot better to see that stuff but I can’t work out how they had so much space inside their 50 and through the corridor over and over and over again if it wasn’t effort.

They were winning first use so could sacrifice players running to the outside. It looked like we'd block up their 50 but someone would drift in unmarked and find a hole. They look well drilled and a lot of quality especially through the mids. Their key talls were ripping down marks that should have been hard to mark and converting way above their usual rate and a lot from long range.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The doom & gloom in this forum at the moment is a bit ridiculous. Coming in with my first post to provide some much-needed perspective. So far this season:

Wins against

• Essendon: 5th (18 points)
• Bulldogs: 7th (51 points)
• GWS: 11th (12 points)
• Gold Coast: 12th (53 points)
• Fremantle: 13th (15 points)
• Carlton: 14th (22 points)
• Sydney: 15th (14 points)
• North: 17th (30 points

Losses against:

• Port: 1st (7 points)
• Collingwood: 2nd (6 points)
• Brisbane: 3rd (28 points)
• Richmond: 9th (20 points)
• Crows: 8th (52 points)
• Hawks: 16th (10 points)

Key takeaways

• We're 0-3 against the top 4 sides (elite sides), with an avg losing margin of 13 points, and we've been in all of those games
  • In comparison, we were 1-5 against top 4 sides last year (melb/syd/cats/pies), with an avg losing margin of 33 points, with the one win against Geelong by 10 points.
• We're 4-2 against sides 5th-12th (middle of the pack sides), with an avg winning margin of 33 points
  • In comparison, we had a losing record of 4-5 against sides placed 5-12th last year, with an avg winning margin of 21 points
• We're 4-1 against sides placed 13th-18th (bottom sides), with an avg winning margin of 20 points
  • In comparison, we were 6-1 against sides placed 13th-18th last year, with an avg winning margin of 33 points

Whilst the overall win/loss is not vastly different, the margins are. That can not be understated.

• Lyon has us playing a brand of footy that keeps us in games against the top sides
• Ratten had us playing more attacking, so we looked great against the poor sides, but couldn't match it with sides around us or above us.

Realistically, we are a 5th-12th place side and our results reflect that. We were never pushing top 4 this year, and the club knows that.

We will play finals this year because of our soft draw, but I expect further improvement next year, albeit finishing in similar 5th-8th position.

2025 we should be in a position to finish top 4 once our youngsters develop further and we clear out some of our underperforming senior players.

Yes, the footy we are playing is dour, but we have to play that way to get results because we don't yet have the talent to go toe-to-toe with the elite sides yet.

Things are never as bad as they seem, nor ever as good as they seem.

Impressive first post. Welcome.

 

[StFly]

I know that getting a ruck tap directly to a team-mate isn't the easiest thing to do, but surely Roma can at least hit it in the direction of one. Not sure if I've seen a ruckman hit it to where there's not one, but 2 opposition players more than Marshall. He almost tapped it down Baileys throat last night running straight at goal.

Maybe it's partly the midfielders fault for not manning up. Maybe Roma needs to make himself more aware of how we're setup. Either way he and our midfielder need to be on the same page and communicate or have some idea or plan of how to structure at throw ins and ball ups.

Not sure on the stats but it would be easier to create scoring opportunities from stoppages around the central part of a ground when both teams are looking to win the the ball, rather than relying on turnovers when the opposition can push back. I feel like if Roma could improve his ruckwork, he could be one of the best in the league because his other footy attributes are above most other ruckman going around.

I'm going to highlight a Webster play just because it was a set play. Long and short being, ball into Brissie F50, pack which was formed splinters and Webster following his man towards goal, gets turned and in 2 seconds, his man is on a 10m lead in front of him, out of reach of any defender, Webster burned on an I50 and his man was just not used in said play. I believe Hipwood ended up marking that one.

This is highlighted for me since this is our midfield, they have a set play, Roma to do this, players 1-4 to do these things but almost consistently they get knocked around a little in the usual pre bounce jostle, the throw is generally lop sided after a failed bounce, and our players minus Crouch and Windy are that 1-2 steps behind and burned as the oppo mids attack a contest with pace and intent instead of a half step. As they then have that small separation that Webster had in a pack set up on a disputed ball where other bodies can get in the way.

 

[Diehard Saint]

At the ground it must have looked better. He was really aggressive and attacking. I thought he stepped up with Sinclair out of the back 6.

Always better to see the whole game at the ground.

 

[phantom13]

They were winning first use so could sacrifice players running to the outside. It looked like we'd block up their 50 but someone would drift in unmarked and find a hole. They look well drilled and a lot of quality especially through the mids. Their key talls were ripping down marks that should have been hard to mark and converting way above their usual rate and a lot from long range.

Players drifting inside 50 (and into the corridor which I noted) if effort and focus (which is really also mental effort).

We laid a shitload of tackles and certainly rolled up the sleeves for contested possesions but that was my whole point. The defensive effort (especially from the mids) seemed lacking to me.

 

[SteeleSaints]

Did anyone else notice how much bigger and stronger Brisbane looked than us last night. I know RTB wanted everyone dropping weight to improve the running, but I dont think it has helped our football. We got out muscled last night I think we have gone too far the other way.

 

[phantom13]

Did anyone else notice how much bigger and stronger Brisbane looked than us last night. I know RTB wanted everyone dropping weight to improve the running, but I dont think it has helped our football. We got out muscled last night I think we have gone too far the other way.

I remember Rayner shrugging off Steele like he was a child at one point. Granted Rayner is a big dude and Steele laid 12 tackles but it was eye opening.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm thinking Steele is totally cooked due them making him drop weight to try to increase his endurance and once he obtained that train wreck of a collar bone injury all the core strength he had has gone - really feel he needs to have a good long spell and get back to his fighting weight.
Same goes with Gresham , had his best year last year this he is a shadow of himself - even if that was hot and cold.
Howard gone from bad to worse.
Forward line just seems undermanned due to system of playing a man in defense and the midfield being whipped most weeks.

Just so frustrating seeing the guys fall off a cliff again half way through the season.

Not having Steele pick up his 30 touches a game in the middle is hurting us badly in the midfield.

Only one thing good about this we a pumping games into Milera , Owens , Windhager , Hammer and hopefully by the end of the year guys like Hayes , Coffield , Jones , McKenzie , Billings will give us a bit of a freshen up.

Cooked because he's got an achilles, knee and shoulder at the moment more.

 

[Plugger35]

Did anyone else notice how much bigger and stronger Brisbane looked than us last night. I know RTB wanted everyone dropping weight to improve the running, but I dont think it has helped our football. We got out muscled last night I think we have gone too far the other way.

Yeah that was very noticeable, how much bigger, stronger and taller they were than us, it looked like man against boys out there.

Even a first year rookie in Ashcroft looked bigger than most of our mids, as I said last night Crouch was our only mid that could match them for size.

We can't change much in terms of midfielders in the short term but I would look at bringing in Campbell to give us another big body.

Not only would he help to give Marshall a chop out in the ruck, it would allow Marshall to give us another big marking target up forward.

At the moment we are relying on Owens to give Marshall a chop out in the ruck and Caminiti to be the second big marking target up forward.

Neither of them are up to playing those roles, we just look undersized all over the ground and Campbell coming in would help to rectify that.

We need to change things up as what we are doing now isn't working, bringing in Paton for Ross didn't change anything, in fact it made us worse.

 

[magd2992]

The doom & gloom in this forum at the moment is a bit ridiculous. Coming in with my first post to provide some much-needed perspective. So far this season:

Wins against

• Essendon: 5th (18 points)
• Bulldogs: 7th (51 points)
• GWS: 11th (12 points)
• Gold Coast: 12th (53 points)
• Fremantle: 13th (15 points)
• Carlton: 14th (22 points)
• Sydney: 15th (14 points)
• North: 17th (30 points

Losses against:

• Port: 1st (7 points)
• Collingwood: 2nd (6 points)
• Brisbane: 3rd (28 points)
• Richmond: 9th (20 points)
• Crows: 8th (52 points)
• Hawks: 16th (10 points)

Key takeaways

• We're 0-3 against the top 4 sides (elite sides), with an avg losing margin of 13 points, and we've been in all of those games
  • In comparison, we were 1-5 against top 4 sides last year (melb/syd/cats/pies), with an avg losing margin of 33 points, with the one win against Geelong by 10 points.
• We're 4-2 against sides 5th-12th (middle of the pack sides), with an avg winning margin of 33 points
  • In comparison, we had a losing record of 4-5 against sides placed 5-12th last year, with an avg winning margin of 21 points
• We're 4-1 against sides placed 13th-18th (bottom sides), with an avg winning margin of 20 points
  • In comparison, we were 6-1 against sides placed 13th-18th last year, with an avg winning margin of 33 points

Whilst the overall win/loss is not vastly different, the margins are. That can not be understated.

• Lyon has us playing a brand of footy that keeps us in games against the top sides
• Ratten had us playing more attacking, so we looked great against the poor sides, but couldn't match it with sides around us or above us.

Realistically, we are a 5th-12th place side and our results reflect that. We were never pushing top 4 this year, and the club knows that.

We will play finals this year because of our soft draw, but I expect further improvement next year, albeit finishing in similar 5th-8th position.

2025 we should be in a position to finish top 4 once our youngsters develop further and we clear out some of our underperforming senior players.

Yes, the footy we are playing is dour, but we have to play that way to get results because we don't yet have the talent to go toe-to-toe with the elite sides yet.

Things are never as bad as they seem, nor ever as good as they seem.

Username checks out. You can see the forrest for the trees.