Preview Round 16, 2021: Collingwood v St.Kilda - MCG, Sunday 4th July, 3:20PM AEST

[bird_man]

I think the issue with playing Josh down back at FB or CHB is that his defending of a man isn’t very good. Balta is streets ahead in that department. His ideal role back there IMO is the one that Wilkie has locked in for the foreseeable future and now Tommy Highmore is making it even harder for him to get a look in there.

While up forward, if we really are confident of getting Bing, there probably won’t be room for Josh there, with the two Kings, Membrey and maybe even Marshall, so maybe that’s why we’re so insistent on playing him mainly on the wing. Because that’s the role we want him to play long term.

It’s probably not his best role (almost certainly isn’t), but again, this isn’t the Josh Battle Show. And he’s nowhere near good enough that we should play him in his best position and just build everything else around him.

He was also thrown into that year without ever playing as a defender and he held his own.

His one on one work clearly needed work but you can't work on that playing on a wing.

McCartin has shown at times he also struggles one on one but he's getting better because the coach sticks with him.

Agree it's not the Josh Battle show but it's also up to the coach to develop his players.

I'm not sure we can claim we've done that well with Battle.

We've seen what Hind has been able do when played to his strengths.

We'd want to be 100% positive we are going to get Bing if that is the reason we are playing him on the wing.

We are going to look ridiculous if Bing signs on again and we are looking for a forward to support Ming and we've just played Battle on the wing for years instead of developing him as a forward.

 

[lewdogs]

It will be great to see Leo get a full debut run. Hope he brings the same confidence as the last game.

 

[Minga]

I think the issue with playing Josh down back at FB or CHB is that his defending of a man isn’t very good. Balta is streets ahead in that department. His ideal role back there IMO is the one that Wilkie has locked in for the foreseeable future and now Tommy Highmore is making it even harder for him to get a look in there.

While up forward, if we really are confident of getting Bing, there probably won’t be room for Josh there, with the two Kings, Membrey and maybe even Marshall, so maybe that’s why we’re so insistent on playing him mainly on the wing. Because that’s the role we want him to play long term.

It’s probably not his best role (almost certainly isn’t), but again, this isn’t the Josh Battle Show. And he’s nowhere near good enough that we should play him in his best position and just build everything else around him.

The thing he has going for him is age - could be our Membrey replacement if we handle this right. Both are really swing players if you think about it, and both can be that third fiddle.

 

[Jade Buddha]

I think Battle's problem is that Highmore in the backline and Wood up forward are both showing good form, and squeezing him out.

This

 

[Jade Buddha]

Rated our 5th most effective player last week, the 8th most effective on the field. Marshall obviously underdone and our least effective player and obviously still not right. Wood was the 21st most effective player.

Yeah not sure I buy that. Wood looked good and not just because of disposals, he was at everything that came near him,

 

[aussierulesrules]

He was also thrown into that year without ever playing as a defender and he held his own.

His one on one work clearly needed work but you can't work on that playing on a wing.

McCartin has shown at times he also struggles one on one but he's getting better because the coach sticks with him.

Agree it's not the Josh Battle show but it's also up to the coach to develop his players.

I'm not sure we can claim we've done that well with Battle.

We've seen what Hind has been able do when played to his strengths.

I think it’s a pretty safe bet that they don’t see him playing key defence long term, or else this would be the ideal time to play him there, with Howard ideally needing someone a bit taller than Wilkie to partner him there.

Unfortunately when he had a crack at it earlier in the year he had 5 kicked on him, and that hasn’t helped that cause one bit.

I’ve long thought that the Tom Lynch (Adelaide version) role is the ideal one for Josh. Roaming far and wide and using that big tank to push up and back and to be a conduit between the backline and forwardline.

The exact one that Wood is playing well at the moment.

One thing that’s probably stopping them from keeping him mainly forward though is his own fault and that’s his kicking for goal. It’s been pretty putrid for such a good kick (and supposed dead-eye in the juniors) in the last two years.

15-16 and some complete misses on top of that. Needs to lift his game there in a pretty big way if he wants to nail down a spot in the front half.

 

[bird_man]

I think it’s a pretty safe bet that they don’t see him playing key defence long term, or else this would be the ideal time to play him there, with Howard ideally needing someone a bit taller than Wilkie to partner him there.

Unfortunately when he had a crack at it earlier in the year he had 5 kicked on himand that hasn’t helped that cause one bit.

I’ve long thought that the Tom Lynch (Adelaide version) role is the ideal one for Josh. Roaming far and wide and using that big tank to push up and back and to be a conduit between the backline and forwardline.

The exact one that Wood is playing well at the moment.

One thing that’s probably stopping them from keeping him mainly forward though is his own fault and that’s his kicking for goal. It’s been pretty putrid for such a good kick (and supposed dead-eye in the juniors) in the last two years.

15-16 and some complete misses on top of that. Needs to lift his game there in a pretty big way if he wants to nail down a spot in the front half.

No doubt we don't see him as a defender or we would have seen it.

The issue is we don't develop him as a forward either.

Playing him mostly off a wing is just madness.

Not giving him a decent run up forward because his goal kicking has been off is just not good enough. Get him to improve it. He was always a good kick as a kid so there's something not right.

We had the perfect opportunity while Marshall was out.

 

[aussierulesrules]

No doubt we don't see him as a defender or we would have seen it.

The issue is we don't develop him as a forward either.

Playing him mostly off a wing is just madness.

Not giving him a decent run up forward because his goal kicking has been off is just not good enough. Get him to improve it. He was always a good kick as a kid so there's something not right.

We had the perfect opportunity while Marshall was out.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never liked the idea of him playing on the wing and if we’re OK with Wood playing the role that he is at the moment (as that “4th tall”) then I don’t see why we couldn’t have had Josh playing that more when Mason wasn’t in the team, but maybe they’re just hell-bent on him becoming that Andrew Embley type on the wing, and are going to persist with it, until it works out.

On last weeks evidence, maybe it eventually will. And if it doesn’t, I don’t think it would take that long for him to get his groove back up forward. If there’s an opening there for him.

 

[gringo2011]

Or he got to much of the ball last week for a wingman

Hurt Hill’s feelings by playing good on the wing.

 

[Jade Buddha]

Should we rename this the Josh Battle development thread?

 

[gringo2011]

In the AFL official player ratings Wood was no.1 on the ground and Champion Data rated him 5th best on the ground (SuperCoach).

Had 3 of our 11 direct score assists, kicked a goal and had an equal-game-high number of score involvements.

Don’t you always laugh at me for quoting AFL player ratings?

 

[PoppedCorn]

Seeing as he has been dropped for the game its kinda relevant to discuss it i wouldve thought

 

[bird_man]

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never liked the idea of him playing on the wing and if we’re OK with Wood playing the role that he is at the moment (as that “4th tall”) then I don’t see why we couldn’t have had Josh playing that more when Mason wasn’t in the team, but maybe they’re just hell-bent on him becoming that Andrew Embley type on the wing, and are going to persist with it, until it works out.

On last weeks evidence, maybe it eventually will. And if it doesn’t, I don’t think it would take that long for him to get his groove back up forward. If there’s an opening there for him.

If we are he'll bent on him becoming Andrew Embley then its just bizzare we drop him when he finally shows something in that position.

I don't mind him going back to the VFL but if it's to play on the wing then its just strange.

We spent a first round selection on a similar player last year because we wanted another key forward.

It's just really confusing the way he has been handled and I just can't agree with anyone that thinks we've handled it well.

I'll leave it there. Looking forward to seeing how he goes and where he plays at Sandy though.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Hurt Hill’s feelings by playing good on the wing.

Our options with Billings coming back were pretty much:

-Long back to defence (after showing something worth persisting with up forward last week) and Leo back out of the team (after likewise showing something worth persisting with last week), or
-Long out of the team, or
-Billings back to the wing, Long to stay put, Leo to stay put and Josh out of the team (after likewise showing something worth persisting with last week).

None of those are ideal or appealing options from where I’m sitting, and that’s actually a good thing, as that’s exactly what happens when your team goes well and selection headaches are created.

Someone was going to be without a chair when the music stopped and they came up with the best 22 and structure that they thought would help us win this game and on this occasion it was Josh.

Someone was going to be stiff, and you probably have to ask the question of how much we need 6 ruckmen and/or marking targets up forward (or on the wing), especially if rain is forecast.

It sucks that it’s had to come at the expense of Battle- especially off the back of his best game in ages- but I for one am glad we’ve given Long another game up forward and Leo another game down back.

Probably neither of which would have happened had we retained Josh.

Its’s a good problem to have. Not having enough spots in the team for all the guys we’d really like to have out there.

 

[aussierulesrules]

If we are he'll bent on him becoming Andrew Embley then its just bizzare we drop him when he finally shows something in that position.

I don't mind him going back to the VFL but if it's to play on the wing then its just strange.

We spent a first round selection on a similar player last year because we wanted another key forward.

It's just really confusing the way he has been handled and I just can't agree with anyone that thinks we've handled it well.

I'll leave it there. Looking forward to seeing how he goes and where he plays at Sandy though.

Who thinks we’ve handled it well?

 

[bird_man]

Who thinks we’ve handled it well?

Well you've given plenty if reasons on why he's played on the wing and not backed forward or back so that seemed to suggest you don't totally disagree with the way he is played.

 

[Mowman]

Our options with Billings coming back were pretty much:
-Long back to defence (after showing something worth persisting with up forward last week) and Leo back out of the team (after likewise showing something worth persisting with last week), or
-Long out of the team, or
-Billings back to the wing, Long to stay put, Leo to stay put and Josh out of the team.

None of those are ideal or appealing options from where I’m sitting, and that’s actually a good thing, as that’s exactly what happens when your team goes well and selection headaches are created.

Someone was going to be without a chair when the music stopped and they came up with the best 22 and structure that they thought would help us win this game and on this occasion it was Josh.

Someone was going to be stiff, and you probably have to ask the question of how much we need 6 ruckmen and/or marking targets up forward (or on the wing), especially if rain is forecast.

It sucks that it’s had to come at the expense of Battle- especially off the back of his best game in ages- but I for one am glad we’ve given Long another game up forward and Leo another game down back.

Probably neither of which would have happened had we retained Josh.

Its’s a good problem to have. Not having enough spots in the team for all the guys we’d really like to have out there.

Or Battle to stay in after showing something worth persisting with

 

[aussierulesrules]

Well you've given plenty if reasons on why he's played on the wing and not backed forward or back so that seemed to suggest you don't totally disagree with the way he is played.

Seems like you’re just seeing what you want to see then and ignoring the rest. Like so many on here do when they get all in a huff.

I said this to you directly just 10 minutes ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never liked the idea of him playing on the wing and if we’re OK with Wood playing the role that he is at the moment (as that “4th tall”) then I don’t see why we couldn’t have had Josh playing that more when Mason wasn’t in the team

I’m not sure how much more clearly I could have said that, but again, it’s just par for the course around here, so I’m hardly surprised.

All I’m doing is actually trying to see things from SOMEONE ELSE’S PERSPECTIVE, as well as just my own. In this case that of our MC.

 

[Mowman]

Who is going to Degoey

 

[aussierulesrules]

Or Battle to stay in after showing something worth persisting with

Correct, that was part of option A, will edit that part into it to make it more clear.

 

[bird_man]

Seems like you’re just seeing what you want to see then and ignoring the rest. Like so many on here do when they get all in a huff.

I said this to you directly just 10 minutes ago.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never liked the idea of him playing on the wing and if we’re OK with Wood playing the role that he is at the moment (as that “4th tall”) then I don’t see why we couldn’t have had Josh playing that more when Mason wasn’t in the team

I’m not sure how much more clearly I could have said that, but again, it’s just par for the course around here, so I’m hardly surprised.

All I’m doing is actually trying to see things from SOMEONE ELSE’S PERSPECTIVE, as well as just my own. In this case that of our MC.

No need to take it to heart. I'm far from in a huff, just discussing my thoughts.

It read as though they were your opinions, not that you were just trying to see it from the clubs point of view.

Either way, if they are your thoughts or the clubs I just can't agree with them.

 

[Crusty Undies]

In the AFL official player ratings Wood was no.1 on the ground and Champion Data rated him 5th best on the ground (SuperCoach).

Had 3 of our 11 direct score assists, kicked a goal and had an equal-game-high number of score involvements.

Pretty sure Wood was rated as having the biggest increase over his career average. Can't see how he'd be the highest rated player on the ground given he was unsighted for most of the game and Dunstan put in an absolute shift.

 

[bird_man]

Pretty sure Wood was rated as having the biggest increase over his career average. Can't see how he'd be the highest rated player on the ground given he was unsighted for most of the game and Dunstan put in an absolute shift.

The AFL official player ratings are a joke.

Saying that, I thought he played well.

 

[Desperate saint]

He was also thrown into that year without ever playing as a defender and he held his own.

His one on one work clearly needed work but you can't work on that playing on a wing.

McCartin has shown at times he also struggles one on one but he's getting better because the coach sticks with him.

Agree it's not the Josh Battle show but it's also up to the coach to develop his players.

I'm not sure we can claim we've done that well with Battle.

We've seen what Hind has been able do when played to his strengths.

We'd want to be 100% positive we are going to get Bing if that is the reason we are playing him on the wing.

We are going to look ridiculous if Bing signs on again and we are looking for a forward to support Ming and we've just played Battle on the wing for years instead of developing him as a forward.

Bing looked pumped and emotional when he kicked the sealer against the tigers i doubt it is a given he comes to us

 

[Desperate saint]

Who thinks we’ve handled it well?

Not me