Autopsy Round 18, 2023: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *PERIS DEBUT*

[gringo2011]

2020: 40
2021: 48
2022: 53
So it's Wang, Pou, Chito, Windy, Hammer plus whatever Peris plays after now.
2023: 107+

It's an amazing difference tbh.

Last year the kids seemed to be pulled out of seniors at the first sign of waning form. The coaches have fast tracked a heap of players this year and it's going to be an investment that will pay off in a year or two. Port bring kids in and tend to hold them in the side but do seem good at knowing which ones are ready. They always have a group in development while staying in challenge mode.

The other option is to send a kid like Phillipou to Sandy for 16 weeks to play in a forward pocket where he gets his confidence and body smashed. I think I know what would get him to his potential quickest.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Did anyone see the practice game on the weekend

 

[gringo2011]

Those who attend Zebs games seem to think not but l have no clue.
I don't see an imperative for it tbh.

Actually I think it seems to a Hickey v Longer type of debate. Some think he should be playing seniors some think he's years off.

 

[gringo2011]

Nah, I happily changed it to include players who have played considerably more than last year. Only Owens and Byrnes fall into that bracket.


Again, the point I am making is that what Ross is doing isn't some left field brilliance. It is a normal amount of exposure to young players, and the numbers are inflated because of the amount of injury we had to our KPF's early in the year. I highly doubt Caminiti plays 13/17 games if Membrey is in the side. Similarly, Owens plays less if King isn't injured. My point is that Ross has been forced to find out about the list because of injury. Has more to do with the lack of availability of players rather than the 'genius' of Ross.

If you take a look at Ratten's three years he blooded the same amount of players and played them for similar amounts of games.

In King, Highmore, Windhager and Nas' first seasons Ratten gave them 18, 13, 18 and 17 games respectively.
In Byrnes' second season he played 15 more games. Bytel played 10 more.
Sharman played 5 in the back half of 2021 after being picked up mid-season, and then played 10 last year.

As for the group that debuted under Ratten;

In 2023, Windhager has played 11 games (18 last year)
Nasiah has played 16 (17 last year)
Owens 15 (7 last year)
Sharman 8 (10 last year)
Bytel 5 (0 last year however injury?)
Byrnes 16 (11 last year)
King 7 (22 last year however injury)


And nah, we haven't over performed. We've gone backwards. We had a far easier fixture this year with apparently a much better coaching staff. The healthier our list has become, the worse we've played.

Progression obviously isn't linear, but I can't see how we can sit here and say we've improved. It's almost a mirror image of last season and with better coaching and an easier run of games it's pretty disappointing to see where we've found ourselves. Hopefully we aren't putting all our eggs into a basket of a guy that has never won anything.


All you are demonstrating here is that our list profile got younger, not how many young players are being given games.

There are a few things to note there though. King was our only full forward after we sold Bruce so we had to play him. Ratts also only had kids in because of injury a lot of the time. Owens was the one that got in to the round one side and he was dropped by round 2. Highmore wasn't a kid either, he was a mature pick up. DMac being injured all year gave Nas his spot because we didn't have options after Hill had to play back to be effective.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Here's my answers if anyone wants to pass them on -

The idea that the board and the coaching staff thought "the eight was a distant chance" - total garbage.

They've played Sharman in differing spots because he's not good enough to fill a specific position in our best 22 but definitely good enough to fill a variety of spots when injuries occur.

Bytel simply isn't good enough.

Peris was chosen for this game because the need for more defensive pressure in the forward half.

Highmore simply isn't good enough.

The coaching panel haven't been selecting "for the future" as much as they've been selecting based on availability.

We have deficiencies but to say our list is s*** and that we are not that good is rubbish. We are a few players away from being a clear top 6 team.

The thing that really s*** me is everyone whingeing on about how we need this and that and how crap everyone is but then conveniently forget that we were a bee's d*** away from De Goey, close to getting Pick 3 last year from North and a player like Draper a couple of years ago.

 

[tomjoad]

Falling back to the 'looking to the future' line seems to be bit of a cop out for us absolutely bottling a must win game.

This %

 

[BrutThough]

There are a few things to note there though. King was our only full forward after we sold Bruce so we had to play him. Ratts also only had kids in because of injury a lot of the time. Owens was the one that got in to the round one side and he was dropped by round 2. Highmore wasn't a kid either, he was a mature pick up. DMac being injured all year gave Nas his spot because we didn't have options after Hill had to play back to be effective.

Except King played because he warranted playing, as one of 3 key forwards. We had other options during that time, King was just better.

Owens was dropped because he wasn't ready for senior football. Once he found VFL form, he was brought in until a nasty concussion which saw him miss weeks. Once he was fit again and had some VFL games under his belt, he was brought back in and stayed in.

DMac wasn't injured all year. He didn't get injured until rd13 - which was post bye. Nas has featured in all but 2 games to that point (one he was sub and the other he was rested before being brought straight back in).

 

[Mowman]

View attachment 1741035
Here's my answers if anyone wants to pass them on -

The idea that the board and the coaching staff thought "the eight was a distant chance" - total garbage.

They've played Sharman in differing spots because he's not good enough to fill a specific position in our best 22 but definitely good enough to fill a variety of spots when injuries occur.

Bytel simply isn't good enough.

Peris was chosen for this game because the need for more defensive pressure in the forward half.

Highmore simply isn't good enough.

The coaching panel haven't been selecting "for the future" as much as they've been selecting based on availability.

We have deficiencies but to say our list is s*** and that we are not that good is rubbish. We are a few players away from being a clear top 6 team.

The thing that really s*** me is everyone whingeing on about how we need this and that and how crap everyone is but then conveniently forget that we were a bee's d*** away from De Goey, close to getting Pick 3 last year from North and a player like Draper a couple of years ago.

But we didn’t get Degoey-pick 3 or Draper

 

[phantom13]

I'd much prefer your wank fest discussions around coach hiring processes and club medical decisions.

Vintage BF.

 

[gringo2011]

No I don't mind Ross at all, in fact I've said many times that he will get the most out of this group. I just don't think he was the right choice and the concerns I had around his ability to adapt to the modern game are still questions unanswered. But lets try and be objective about it. We have this weird love affair with Ross, if anyone question or criticise him it's met with animosity.

Lyon himself said he needed to improve at the beginning of the year and yes it's a mix of players and coaches but Ross isn't exempt from criticism or improvement because he was a good coach 15 years ago.

We are doing a lot of the same stuff that we've done for the last 3 seasons but because it's Ross we gloss over the issues. There's real issues in the way we are playing. It needs to be addressed. Our leaders need to step up, our coaches need to develop a plan B. To heap it all on players OR coaches is stupid, and I took back what I said yesterday. It's a mix of both but it seems to me that Ross is immune to criticism on here. It's stupid lol

This is where I have a different point of view on Lyon. He's not here to build a house. He's inherited a house some dickhead built himself but they'd forgotten put in a foundation and made the frame out of scraps.

Lyon is having to dig a foundation and peel back the panels and fix all the stuff you can't see but that if you don't fix it can never work. Our footy department was more like an Ammos club. You always hear that you can't succeed on field until you get the back of house right, Lyon at a minimum is getting that done. Lethlean and his cronies were trying to build it with a screw driver and an Ikea instruction manual for a bookshelf.

The way we are playing is limited by what we have available. The 4 year contract gives Ross the freedom to play kids. Something Ratts and Richo didn't have the luxury of because we'd made them play for the jobs.

I'm a bit like a Space-X executive. The rocket got 30 seconds into the air and blew up again but those extra 4 seconds are still positive because you learn shit from it. It's extremely disappointing but we don't scrap the project the first time we hit adversity or what was the point.

I also think Lyon is more manager than coach at the moment He's very keen to point out that the line coaches are running more of the show than him as far as strategy goes. He looks more focussed on structure and standards.

 

[George]

This is where I have a different point of view on Lyon. He's not here to build a house. He's inherited a house some dickhead built himself but they'd forgotten put in a foundation and made the frame out of scraps.

Lyon is having to dig a foundation and peel back the panels and fix all the stuff you can't see but that if you don't fix it can never work. Our footy department was more like an Ammos club. You always hear that you can't succeed on field until you get the back of house right, Lyon at a minimum is getting that done. Lethlean and his cronies were trying to build it with a screw driver and an Ikea instruction manual for a bookshelf.

The way we are playing is limited by what we have available. The 4 year contract gives Ross the freedom to play kids. Something Ratts and Richo didn't have the luxury of because we'd made them play for the jobs.

I'm a bit like a Space-X executive. The rocket got 30 seconds into the air and blew up again but those extra 4 seconds are still positive because you learn s**t from it. It's extremely disappointing but we don't scrap the project the first time we hit adversity or what was the point.

I also think Lyon is more manager than coach at the moment He's very keen to point out that the line coaches are running more of the show than him as far as strategy goes. He looks more focussed on structure and standards.

So what you're saying is Lyon is trying to fix the ponce cabin some dickhead tried to build in the woods?

 

[phantom13]

But we didn’t get Degoey-pick 3 or Draper

From most reliable accounts DeGoey used us to bump his contract up and we were never really in the hunt and North never really considered giving pick 3 unless 10 went in the deal too (which would have been idiotic).

So it must have been the Ron Jeremy of bees.

 

[The Cobra]

Neither is Peris, should not of played ahead of Bytel or Paton you need to be serious with selection if you are going to win the game.

His stats look ok but allowed Ben Long to take quite a few marks.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Probably right - but he is a quick small defensive forward that was brought into an undersized /undermanned forward line to play a very specific role - neither Paton or Bytel can play that role. Realistically we probably had very few other options.

 

[George]

Well FMD
The club didn't expect to win the flag LOL ,How f-cking obvious that we were never going to win the flag this year , I cant even believe they would have even thought that and if they did well we are well and truly f-cked .
If anyone at the club thought we were a chance this year they should be sacked immediately

He literally said they didn't think that though.

On the bongs again chief? Might join you actually it's been a long day already

 

[Klaatu]

Probably right - but he is a quick small defensive forward that was brought into an undersized /undermanned forward line to play a very specific role - neither Paton or Bytel can play that role. Realistically we probably had very few other options.

That role should be played by Butler & Gresham no need for a specialised small defensive forward isn't that part of their role.
Paton should of played in rotation into the backline and Windhager should of been in rotation into midfield from the start,Widhager is not a defender.

 

[phantom13]

This is where I have a different point of view on Lyon. He's not here to build a house. He's inherited a house some dickhead built himself but they'd forgotten put in a foundation and made the frame out of scraps.

Lyon is having to dig a foundation and peel back the panels and fix all the stuff you can't see but that if you don't fix it can never work. Our footy department was more like an Ammos club. You always hear that you can't succeed on field until you get the back of house right, Lyon at a minimum is getting that done. Lethlean and his cronies were trying to build it with a screw driver and an Ikea instruction manual for a bookshelf.

The way we are playing is limited by what we have available. The 4 year contract gives Ross the freedom to play kids. Something Ratts and Richo didn't have the luxury of because we'd made them play for the jobs.

I'm a bit like a Space-X executive. The rocket got 30 seconds into the air and blew up again but those extra 4 seconds are still positive because you learn s**t from it. It's extremely disappointing but we don't scrap the project the first time we hit adversity or what was the point.

I also think Lyon is more manager than coach at the moment He's very keen to point out that the line coaches are running more of the show than him as far as strategy goes. He looks more focussed on structure and standards.

This metaphor might be your magnum opus Gringo. Poetic.

 

[pebblesofsand]

But we didn’t get Degoey-pick 3 or Draper

And your point is what exactly - don't try so so-called supporters can bag us or try so so-called supporters can bag us?

Actually both options seem to suit the attitude of most on here.

 

[BrutThough]

The coaching panel haven't been selecting "for the future" as much as they've been selecting based on availability.

Absolutely nailed it with this.

 

[The Punter]

I'd like a mediocre season to be at the very least mediocre from the beginning as a service to long suffering fans who keep having their hopes raised.

Hopefully my 12 year old son will be able to attend a final with St Kilda in it before he commences university.

 

[kernelT]

So we're not good enough to win the flag?

 

[PoppedCorn]

 

[Joffaboy]

It's hard to reconcile half the stuff you post. We've been banging on about our trading and drafting for a decade, Gringo notably, yet you spend half the time potting him. There are unlocked doors in windy places that swing less with the wind (that's my best gringo attempt, i suck).

Couldn't care less if nobodies like you can't reconcile things.
Not my responsibility your lack.of intelligence or understanding.
As for gringo, I agree with him most of the time, sometimes I disagree with him. Same with him to me. Oh no people agree or disagree on a forum.
Jog on champ.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[kernelT]

champed

 

[sunny3193]

He literally said they didn't think that though.

On the bongs again chief? Might join you actually it's been a long day already

What happened to the good George at work this morning?
The one who said last night that he was not going to be checking BF every minute?
V disappointed in you.
I’m emailing your boss and dobbing you in!

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I think our forward line problem is more structure and transition tactics than players.

Goal Scorers.
2015: Bruce 50, Riewoldt 29, Sinclair 18, Dunstan 12, Lonie 12, Weller 12, Armitage 11, Savage 10. ( 241 Total ).
2016: Membrey 44, Riewoldt 41, Bruce 38, Weller 24 , Newnes 15 , Steven 14, McCartin 14, Armitage 11, Gresham 11, Lonie 10. ( 286 total ).
2017: Membrey 38, Bruce 36, Gresham 30, Riewoldt 29, Billings 23, Acres 11, Weller 11, Dunstan 10. ( 271 total ).
2018: Gresham 35, Membrey 34, Newnes 18, Lonie 16, Billings 14, Steven 13 , McCartin 12. ( 225 total ).
2019: Membrey 44, Bruce 36, Parker 16, Gresham 15, Long 14, Lonie 13, Billings 13, Kent 12, Hind 11 ( 233 total ).
2020: Butler 29, King 22, Membrey, 20, Marshall 13, Lonie 12, Battle 12, Steele 11, Billings 11, Ryder 10, Kent 10. ( 187 total ).
2021: King 38, Membrey 34, Higgins 27, Butler 18, Billings 14, Steele 13, Sharman 10. ( 237 total ).
2022: King 52, Membrey 34, Higgins 30, Butler 19, Gresham 16, Wood 13, Ryder 11 ( 247 total ).

2023: Higgins 27, Butler 24, Owens 21, Gresham 15, Caminiti 15, King 14, Wood 13, Phillipou 8. ( YTD 181).

Every year we average around 11 goals, a bit less in 2020, but we conceded less then.
By contrast, the Cats average around 14 a game ( except for 2020 when the were down at our level ).
Tigers average around 12,(except.....wait for it....... 2020 )
Hawks were up around 16 back in 2015, slowly coming down to around our level, sitting on 10 this year.

We are shuffling the deck and playing the same game each year.