Autopsy Round 18, 2023: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *PERIS DEBUT*

[Sully111]

You’re playing 5 kids who are 20.

2 of those kids are probably in our top 10 (Nas) and one would be in our top 3 (Owens) for the year.

You don’t have Membrey and King playing.

What do you expect to happen? Kids tire. They need support. That’s why people say it takes 50 games - in most cases that’s 3-4 seasons.

We have kids leading the way in year 2.

Our ball use is atrocious

That's it

Doesn't matter how old anyone is

Our ball use and decision making are well below afl standard

 

[George]

Our ball use is atrocious

That's it

Doesn't matter how old anyone is

Our ball use and decision making are well below afl standard

Good coaches set up a style that suits their players strengths. We are trying to do Harlem Globetrotter stuff with a bunch of foot soldiers. We are not a side that can move the ball at manic pace. We don't have tall forwards to be able to dump it inside 50 on.

I remember Ross saying earlier in the year after one of our losses that he tried to do too much with the group during the week in terms of play style.and had to strip it back a bit. I do wonder if he's still approaching it this way or if he is reverting back to stubborn Ross. We seemingly haven't changed anything the last couple of months.

 

[Ads734]

We are a depressing watch but we were under Ratts too. We are a very agricultural list with no excitement machines on our list. I was always keen to get Rankine types to throw a bit of chilli on our over cooked white rice playing list. We are beige, vanilla, plain, meat and potatoes etc. If you haven't got anyone to generate energy and momentum you have to work hard and in unison. We have lost the unison at the moment.

what do you call Pou, Owens and Nas?

 

[Nutsngum]

Dead right about that , in fact 95% of our team are and when Higgo try's to show some excitement he gets nothing back , teams use a good goal to pump the crowd up , when we kick a goal its like oh well i will trudge back to my position .

This is really selective bias here. Theres tonnes of times the guys are pumped after a goal.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Good coaches set up a style that suits their players strengths. We are trying to do Harlem Globetrotter stuff with a bunch of foot soldiers. We are not a side that can move the ball at manic pace. We don't have tall forwards to be able to dump it inside 50 on.

I remember Ross saying earlier in the year after one of our losses that he tried to do too much with the group during the week in terms of play style.and had to strip it back a bit. I do wonder if he's still approaching it this way or if he is reverting back to stubborn Ross. We seemingly haven't changed anything the last couple of months.

First it’s dour, now it’s Globetrotter. Get some sleep old mate, you need it

 

[Tommy Wigs]

It will be interesting to see if we can improve our conversion in a few weeks if/when we have Hayes, King, Membrey and Higgins all in there.

Not unless there is amid season draft and we can swap our entire midfield

 

[CaptainRisky]

This is really selective bias here. Theres tonnes of times the guys are pumped after a goal.

Selective bias , what's the bias you speak of ?

Go back and have a look at the highlight package for Jack Steeles 150th , take a look how he used to react when he kicked a goal as apposed to now

 

[George]

First it’s dour, now it’s Globetrotter. Get some sleep old mate, you need it

We play dour, we are trying to play globetrotter.

I know it must be hard but we're all here for you feel free to reach out if you need it always happy to help xx

 

[True Believer]

Our ball use is atrocious

That's it

Doesn't matter how old anyone is

Our ball use and decision making are well below afl standard

This!! I wonder if one leads to the other, due to lack of confidence in one's own ability to execute basic skills? Our decision making looks under 12 type stuff at times. And some of the scrubber kicks - I'm constantly looking at you Gresh!!

 

[beside the seaside]

Not unless there is amid season draft and we can swap our entire midfield

Our entries could no doubt be improved, but the last few weeks we've gotten it in there enough and you'd have to think the quality of the forwards is having an impact. Not saying it's everything though.

 

[Captain Paddy]

It's funny, because in 2003 the kids came good at the end of the year and we went from 6-9 to 11-11.

I agree with George AND Stavro. I think NWM is having a better year than Owens, and Owens is dropping off while NWM is getting better. Caminiti is consistent and Pou needed a rest a fortnight ago. Windhager ran out the game well but at the moment he looks like a really good foot soldier.

But it would have been a group-defining moment if we had beaten Melbourne last week, but when we dominated the first 10 minutes of the final quarter, no one wanted the responsibility to try something and kick the big, unlikely goal. We ALWAYS let the perfect be the enemy of the good. This is why I rail against the "selfish" rubbish aimed at blokes like Higgins - any shot on goal is inherently selfish, but someone has to kick the goals to win the game. We need players who want the responsibility to win the big moments.

The crest on the jumper is there because of one of those defining moments. The players rarely dare to fail, and fail regularly because of it.

Also, the leadership thing, which can be developed, but no one at St Kilda has made it a priority since Grant Thomas. We're not Melbourne 2012 - make Owens captain next year and see what happens. Then make it someone else in 2025. It worked before, and we almost won a flag because of it.

Would love to see Windy given full freedom and time to be a mid for the rest of the year. Has been thrown down back and onto the 'cooling' roles when someone gets hot. It's all part of the learning experience, but I think he could be a little LDU like when given the time and freedom

 

[Captain Paddy]

The thing I love about Ross is that players from both his first stint with St.Kilda and Freo love him. There are a bunch of them can't speak highly enough about his coaching or what he's done for them personally in terms of growth.

The only players you can find that have bad words to say about Ross are

• Talented players who didn't want to put in the work and live up to his standards and get the best out of themselves, thought they deserved games on talent and cracked the sads when they didnt
• The real average guys who didn't really have any great attributes in terms of running/kicking that he likes and didn't get games.

The people that did commit themselves love him, and it's not just the stars, how many average players did he turn into role players and help carve out a 10 year career for.

Have faith

 

[Sun Ra]

The game has become too manic, too many contests, congestion, etc.

Players should be given THC gummies an hour before the game which would provide a more free flowing, open, creative style.

The AFL should look at this.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've figured it out...

All King's ball twirling... he was trying to go Globetrotter.
Didn't quite nail it though

 

[MordySaint]

We didn't really have a proper footy department. Trout was a guy who was an assistant coach under Lyon who went on personal leave, came back and we found him a job rather than move him on. Guys like Ameet Bains made structural list decision outside his expertise which was more financial management than talent identification.

Lethlean was given the job of reviewing the list and making big decisions, again after being a guy with no experience. He got his mate Gags down who worked in sales inside a bank. He didn't make very good structural decisions and chased for feel good stories rather than needs and sold low and bought high.

It was obvious that drafting had been a huge weakness. We had the least rising star nominations of any club, least all Australians and just about every other award in the league. The data was there but they wilfully ignored it. Post Brendan Goddard in 2002, our drafting fell off a cliff. John Bevo was about 90 and still out watching TAC games for us.

The Geelong guy who's name has slipped my mind actually got us a few good players but we sold them all off for nothing. Cripps, Lynch, McEvoy etc and then sacked him. Then the really s**t years kicked in. We sold off second rounders for guys like Freeman, traded for guys like Logan Austin etc and sold players that were best 22 for more picks that we wasted.

Honestly we couldn't have stuffed it up more if we'd deliberately tried to self sabotage. Trout was probably a double agent working for the evil Essendon empire.

I've always had a soft spot for Lethlean, but I'm changing my opinion. The quicker we can get him to stay in his lane and stay out of the football department the better.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Cairnsman get your knob out son

 

[Klaatu]

Get back to basics, so what we lose the centre clearance or tap other sides compensate move Sinclaire back to HBF as we have lost his drive & ball winning ability by moving him he is less effective in the middle & also helps clean up our defence & also delivers the ball into our forward line.

In the midfield stick with Windhager,Steele,Crouch & use Jones & Gresham for speed change it up every now and then by putting Owens in there and we can't get new midfielders now so have to make do until we can.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Well this is bullshit.

With all your tall timber forward of the ball down. It makes more sense to play Marshall forward - where he has predominantly played across the last 3 seasons and Campbell in the ruck.

Infact dropping Cordy and playing Caminiti continuously flys in the face of this narrative that the selections were one and the same

Infact Highmore playing Battles position makes more sense as it then allows battle to go forward.

But none of the above occurred. They stayed true to structure and developed kids to build towards the future as opposed to focusing on win now

Well it looks like we completely different perceptions as to what selecting "for the future" means. My perception of it is selecting kids for games ahead of equally or better performing mature age players. Form is not the key factor.

And unless I am mistaken that simply has not been able to happen at any stage this year his year because most of the "mature" players who were coming back through Sandy are coming back from long term lay offs so have needed multiple weeks before being considered.

As for your examples

Sorry but I can't see how not selecting Tom Campbell while simultaneously not selecting Max Heath is an example of selecting "for the future".

I'm pretty sure Cordy got 1 possession in 3/4's of a game so I'd be arguing that Caminiti got (and retained his spot) on the basis of form not some concept of playing for the future.

And I cannot see how playing Highmore (who certainly won't be with us next year) in the back half to allow Battle to go forward when we we are lacking height in the fwd half can be considered "playing for the future".

If we were playing Adams or Van Es in the back half then you might have a point - but we aren't and we haven't.

Selection has been constrained by injury.

 

[gringo2011]

Let’s be fair.

At full flight King Nas Owens and Pou are pretty exciting to watch.

The issue is that one has been injured most of the year and the other 3 are kids who look tired and don’t yet have the consistency to do it week in and out.

I think we make finals next year. I think the year after we really break out.

I still don't think I find any exciting yet. We don't have many game breakers or guys that change games through acts of sheer brilliance. I don't think we have targeted them in years. Phillipou looks like he has a pulse but we like our stable and steady guys rather than Flash Harry types.

Don't know if Lyon is the type to encourage it either. He likes effort over glitter.

 

[gringo2011]

There was quarters last season where King would win the game off his own boot.

He is very exciting.

King is exciting in as far as he kicks goals but he's exciting like Tom Lynch, Larkey or McKay. He doesn't have much flash.

 

[gringo2011]

gringo2011 - I would disagree on NWM. He's almost certainly top 5 B&F at the moment and is really starting to take the game on. If you can have Pou/Owens as mid/forward rotations and Sinclair/NWM as mid/defender rotations, that's a big piece you can lock away for a few years until Sinclair drops off.

I love his game, he's close to our best player over the last month but he doesn't get me out of my seat. He's a clean, reliable smooth-mover. He's more surgeon than rock star. I don't think you understand my point.

 

[Mowman]

I still don't think I find any exciting yet. We don't have many game breakers or guys that change games through acts of sheer brilliance. I don't think we have targeted them in years. Phillipou looks like he has a pulse but we like our stable and steady guys rather than Flash Harry types.

Don't know if Lyon is the type to encourage it either. He likes effort over glitter.

Who’s this Harry you talk about?

 

[Mowman]

Cairnsman get your knob out son

Not bad for a kid that can’t mark and will never play seniors because his card had been stamped

 

[George]

I know what it is.

It's a battle for male dominance. Who is the real 'man'. SharMAN or CairnsMAN.

Someone feels threatened and it ain't the toothbrush looking chap in the #43.

 

[George]

MowMAN doesn't count - pretender that gets tucked into bed with his Ribena and night light xx