Autopsy Round 18, 2023: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *PERIS DEBUT*

[Sun Ra]

Probably a few niggles and now getting proper attention from opposition sides and coaches.

He's predominately left sided, so if they corral him onto his right side... he becomes less effective.

Wish he had of held that mark early in the GC game. Would have been MOTY. Or was that last week ? I forget.

 

[denisp]

Hard to know what to say - insipid performance.

How they rebuild confidence & system from here who knows.

Reckon Moorabbin will be pretty flat this week - coaches will be earning their money to get them up for next game.

They won’t be playing anywhere near they did in first couple of months - they are completely and meekly GONE !!!

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Wood hasn't quite been the same since he took that hit to the shoulder a couple of months ago.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

AFL Fantasy points are just that, a fantasy, but they are a measure of stats, and i think its safe to say that if a player goes from scoring 100 points per week to 80, unless they have changed their role significantly, they have gone backwards.

So if i graph out the AFLF points through the year, its an indicator of whether that player is better, worse or just all over the shop.

So i looked at our players. I took their average after their bye and compared it as a percentage to their average before the bye.
That's not the whole story, because several of our players played their guts out in the first few weeks and coasted the rest of the season.
So i also included the trend , up or down over the season.

I didn't count games where the player was injured early.

Wanganeen-Milera 123% Up.
Howard 117% , up.
Crouch 111% , up
Sinclair 110% , up.
Marshal 106% , Slightly up
Butler 105% ,Slightly up.
Wilkie 102% , Flat
Steele 100% , Flat
Hill 100% , Down
Caminiti 98% , Flat

Battle 95%, Slightly Down
Gresham , 94% Down ( from a very low starting point ).
Ross , 93%, Down
Owens , 92% ,Down
Wood , 90% , Down
Phillipou, 83% Down.
Higgins , 80% , Down.
Stocker , 74% , Down
Byrnes , 65% , Down

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Wood hasn't quite been the same since he took that hit to the shoulder a couple of months ago.

 

[Cairnsman]

View attachment 1741802

You know part of the reasoning behind the Brisbane line was that there was nothing worth having beyond that point, Imo nothings changed.

thank farg then that there is a jet propelled flying train that transports me back N forth between Melbourne and Cairns on a very regular basis.

Did you ever consider driving the FJ Holden ute past the end of the line, I recon it could still make it if you've serviced it regularly.

 

[gringo2011]

Any ideas on why Mason Wood has gone from All Australian form back to a potato?

Gravity. St Kilda has its own tractor beam that means anyone that plays well for an extended period must come down with a thud.

 

[Mowman]

thank farg then that there is a jet propelled flying train that transports me back N forth between Melbourne and Cairns on a very regular basis.

Did you ever consider driving the FJ Holden ute past the end of the line, I recon it could still make it if you've serviced it regularly.

 

[NoisyMinor]

In response to Lyon stating we're a poor side when the top players aren't performing, Steele says 'Probably right, yeah, the second and third tier need to lift'.

You can't make this shit up. Not captain material.

 

[Nutsngum]

In response to Lyon stating we're a poor side when the top players aren't performing, Steele says 'Probably right, yeah, the second and third tier need to lift'.

You can't make this s**t up. Not captain material.

That was not what he said at all. He was stating they all need to lift if they want to be competitive.

 

[BrutThough]

In response to Lyon stating we're a poor side when the top players aren't performing, Steele says 'Probably right, yeah, the second and third tier need to lift'.

You can't make this s**t up. Not captain material.

Except you are making shit up by misquoting what he said.

 

[Premium]

In fairness a lot of the younger players he would like to have tried have been injured for a long period or still are injured . Take some of the young key forwards who haven’t played at all , or Hayes who I’m sure Ross would have played every game if he was fit . It also didn’t help that guys like Connolly haven’t been playing that well in the twos . Yes Highmore might have been given a chance but our defenders have played pretty well most matches and haven’t missed too many games through injury . It’s hard to drop someone like Hill when there is no one fit enough to take his place . Also remember Ross inherited this squad from Ratten so we will have to see what he does over the next couple of seasons .

We have a limited list due to injuries and we might not of had a big turn over of players in the seniors due to that reason.
Guys like Bytel is a perfect example , just when he is right to play he gets a injury and a whole heap of the young guys have been unavailable - Alison , Keeler , Hotton , McLennan and have only just got back after injury and our seniors have been hit with the likes of King , Membery , McKenzie , Billings , Jones , Hayes , Coffield and others missing large chunk of the season.

As for trying players out they have put the acid teat on the kids having Owens , Phillipou , Caminiti , Windhager , Milera , Byrne , Stocker all having a huge amount of game time which will only do there development wonders.

I do expect us to make the 8 , but the coming weeks the importance of Hayes , Coffield getting game time and strengthening the 22 will be important - you can more or less write off Membery and Ross for the rest of the year.
But we also need a big improvement from Steele and guys like Jones and Clark to really stand up - I would say Gresham as well but I think that is wishful thinking knowing he has had more than enough time to show his best.

 

[NoisyMinor]

Except you are making s**t up by misquoting what he said.

Here's the direct quote:

"Our best performers probably need to just keep things going, keep driving the standards, but we also need that second tier and third tier to lift even more and we probably haven't had that in the last maybe six or seven weeks of football.

"We saw it earlier in the year, everyone was evenly contributing to our performances.


"It's definitely tapered off in the last couple of months of footy, we've just got to find a way to get that back."




What does 'keep things going' mean to you? Are they driving the standards currently? Has it been the second and third tier who've dropped off a cliff the last 10 weeks?

 

[Premium]

That was not what he said at all. He was stating they all need to lift if they want to be competitive.

If I was Steele I would hand over the media crap to someone else and just let him get his game where it should be.
He has been one of the reasons our midfield been so bad and if you don't win a fair share from the middle it total destroys any structure or game plan you might have.

 

[BrutThough]

Here's the direct quote:

"Our best performers probably need to just keep things going, keep driving the standards, but we also need that second tier and third tier to lift even more and we probably haven't had that in the last maybe six or seven weeks of football.

"We saw it earlier in the year, everyone was evenly contributing to our performances.


"It's definitely tapered off in the last couple of months of footy, we've just got to find a way to get that back."




What does 'keep things going' mean to you? Are they driving the standards currently? Has it been the second and third tier who've dropped off a cliff the last 10 weeks?

I'd took it as Steele is saying our best players need to keep up the work ethic and effort that's made them our best players rather than give up on the season at this point. We need them to play well but cant just expect to win off the back of 2-3 players so everyone else needs to lift their performance alongside them

Yes, I do think the 2nd and 3rd tier players have dropped off from how they were playing at the start of the season. Ross also stated that in his post game press conference. Players like Wood, Byrnes, Stocker, Higgins, Battle etc were playing better football in the first 6 weeks of the season compared to the last 6 weeks which has been a contributing factor to our overall drop-off.

 

[NoisyMinor]

Yes, I do think the 2nd and 3rd tier players have dropped off from how they were playing at the start of the season. Ross also stated that in his post game press conference. Players like Wood, Byrnes, Stocker, Higgins, Battle etc were playing better football in the first 6 weeks of the season compared to the last 6 weeks which has been a contributing factor to our overall drop-off.

You say this as though the top tier's lack of form / effort hasn't been the main contributing factor to everyone else getting beaten to the ball or not getting any time and space to do their thing.

Higgins has almost single-handedly been carrying the forwards. Battle has to deal with Howard and co. shitting the bed instead of providing clean transition.

Steele
Gresham
Hill
Howard
King
Sinclair (recently)

All top-tier where our list is concerned and members of the leadership group.

Far as I'm concerned, it's Crouch and the grunts who've been carrying us. Time to stop passing the buck, captain.

 

[BrutThough]

You say this as though the top tier's lack of form / effort hasn't been the main contributing factor to everyone else getting beaten to the ball or not getting any time and space to do their thing.

Higgins has almost single-handedly been carrying the forwards. Battle has to deal with Howard and co. shitting the bed instead of providing clean transition.

Steele
Gresham
Hill
Howard
King
Sinclair (recently)

All top-tier where our list is concerned and members of the leadership group.

Far as I'm concerned, it's Crouch and the grunts who've been carrying us. Time to stop passing the buck, captain.

For the most part, our best players - Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, to lesser extent Hill and Crouch - have been consistent with their performance and played well in many losses. I dont think it's fair to question their effort or overall form for this season.

I use Higgins as an example since his start of the year was great but hasn't kicked multiple goals once (2 against Richmond) since rd11. The knee injury he's been carrying is likely a big factor to that but his drop off on the scoreboard is a big contributor to our forward line issues getting worse. It's similar with Wood who talked about as All Australia quality early in the season to being an afterthought or Ross who had a sudden drop off in form midway through the season. We haven't got as much from those types in the past 6-8 weeks and it's had a big impact on the overall performance.

Steele has also been open about his own drop off when asked about it and isn't shying away from it.

 

[NoisyMinor]

For the most part, our best players - Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall, to lesser extent Hill and Crouch - have been consistent with their performance and played well in many losses. I dont think it's fair to question their effort or overall form for this season.

I use Higgins as an example since his start of the year was great but hasn't kicked multiple goals once (2 against Richmond) since rd11. The knee injury he's been carrying is likely a big factor to that but his drop off on the scoreboard is a big contributor to our forward line issues getting worse. It's similar with Wood who talked about as All Australia quality early in the season to being an afterthought or Ross who had a sudden drop off in form midway through the season. We haven't got as much from those types in the past 6-8 weeks and it's had a big impact on the overall performance.

Steele has also been open about his own drop off when asked about it and isn't shying away from it.

Wilkie, Marshall and Crouch aren't the top tier.

You're making my point for me.

 

[George]

Could we um, manage to um, give Steele some um, um, media um, media training? It's um, it's kind of um, kind of annoying listening to um, to um, to him.

 

[BrutThough]

Wilkie, Marshall and Crouch aren't the top tier.

You're making my point for me.

So Howard and Gresham are top tier players for us but Wilkie and Marshall - 2nd and 3rd in coaches votes for us this season and candidates for the All Australian squad - aren't?

I dont understand the point you are trying to make if that's the case.

 

[George]

He did make a good point about being down 2 on the bench and still fighting it out until the end vs a top four side in Melbourne two weeks ago.

Players tiring. Lol.

 

[NoisyMinor]

So Howard and Gresham are top tier players for us but Wilkie and Marshall - 2nd and 3rd in coaches votes for us this season and candidates for the All Australian squad - aren't?

I dont understand the point you are trying to make if that's the case.

The coaches vote based on ability, do they?

Howard holds a key position and is in the leadership team. As far as the club is concerned, he is top tier.

Gresham has been earmarked to play midfield despite his natural forward role as they believe it's going to help him reach his potential. As far as they are concerned, he is top tier, particularly considering what they spent on him.

Now, if you'd like to insist we have more than 8 players of our first 25 in the top tier, have at it, but I'm not buying what you're selling.

 

[phantom13]

I love Steele but I tune out entirely when the man speaks. Ross sprayed the lot of them on the weekend, I suspect Steele was only trying to back what Ross said but he’s kind of a handsome idiot who mostly can’t string a sentence together. I can see from the full quote how it comes across poorly though.

 

[gringo2011]

In response to Lyon stating we're a poor side when the top players aren't performing, Steele says 'Probably right, yeah, the second and third tier need to lift'.

You can't make this s**t up. Not captain material.

I have no problem with it. The top 5 or so do tend to do what they do and I'd include Steele in that. He's trying but a bit banged up. Even then his numbers are still good. Steele was our highest ranked player on the weekend.

It seems like we rely on Crouch, Steele, Marshall, Sinclair and Wilkie to do the heavy lifting and the next tiers seem to come along for a ride when they feel like it. Snags, Butler, Nas all have a bit of form but players like Hill, Wood, Howard who are senior players seem to be very inconsistent and then you expect the kids to be patchy in performance but not effort.

Too many are happy to ride along behind the hard work of others and if we want finals we have to fight for it. He's trying to prod them into action.

 

[gringo2011]

Here's the direct quote:

"Our best performers probably need to just keep things going, keep driving the standards, but we also need that second tier and third tier to lift even more and we probably haven't had that in the last maybe six or seven weeks of football.

"We saw it earlier in the year, everyone was evenly contributing to our performances.


"It's definitely tapered off in the last couple of months of footy, we've just got to find a way to get that back."




What does 'keep things going' mean to you? Are they driving the standards currently? Has it been the second and third tier who've dropped off a cliff the last 10 weeks?

I'd say they have all dropped off to some degree but the contributions from guys like Byrnes, Wood, Howard, Ross, Butler, Snags, Caminiti, Owens, Phillipou, Stocker, Hill, Battle, Gresham etc are all worse than when we were at our best.

Nas is probably the only one whose form has gone up. Most weeks it's Wilkie, Crouch, Sinclair, Marshall, Steele and now Nas doing all the heavy lifting. The others will have a good game or quarter at times but aren't playing as well or as consistently as they were.