Autopsy Round 18, 2023: Gold Coast v St.Kilda *PERIS DEBUT*

[SaintsSeptember]

Gresham started bad this year and got worse.
Last year most of his games were 20+ disposals. This year 6 of them.
Last year he had 6 games with 10 or more contested possessions including one with 18. This year he had one with 11.
Last year he had 74 clearances from 18 games, this year 21 from 16. He won 6 clearances against the Lions, and 8 against the cats.
This year his big clearance numbers have been 4 against the Hawks and 3 against West Coast.

Something's not right with him. I doubt if he's not trying, not unless he already signed a handshake agreement with someone else at the end of last season.
Anyway, if Windhager can play like he did in his last couple he's as good as 2023 Gresh.
Byrnes in his first four games of the season was as good as 2023 Gresh.
Owens is better.
If we ran Jack Higgins in the midfield he'd probably be as good as 2023 Gresh.

Hopefully we can play Jones in there, and we can get Gresh the hell out until he can play footy again.

 

[St Kilda Death]

Here is an insight into who is carrying the team.

I ran through match reports on AFL.com
And tallied who was named in the best week by week.

Marshall 10
Sinclair 8
Crouch 8
Wilkie 6

Steele 6 (playing though injury)
Wood 6 (ditto)
Snags 5 (missed the last 2 games)
Owens 5 (19 years old!)

 

[The Punter]

Here is an insight into who is carrying the team.

I ran through match reports on AFL.com
And tallied who was named in the best week by week.

Marshall 10
Sinclair 8
Crouch 8
Wilkie 6

Steele 6 (playing though injury)
Wood 6 (ditto)
Snags 5 (missed the last 2 games)
Owens 5 (19 years old!)

I've had Marshall in my best 5 St Kilda players in a game 3 times this year. His opponents always seem to get off the leash, sans Gawn/Grundy (where I had Marshall BOG).

 

[The Punter]

Looking back on afltables, it is interesting to note that GC were the older and more experienced team on the weekend.

 

[gringo2011]

Looking back on afltables, it is interesting to note that GC were the older and more experienced team on the weekend.

Our forward line would have been one of the least experienced put out in modern times. We were putting up more youth than West Coast Eagles on the weekend too. There is this strange sensation of being outrageously frustrated at another year pissing away and being impressed that we were quite competitive against Melbourne despite the list. Not only young and inexperienced but even some of the middle tier players like Byrnes and Sharman are quite inexperienced and not first picked when we have a full list available.

The system is holding up like it should despite not getting results. Having a more balanced forward line would surely take care of a bit more finishing off the work the others are doing. I don't want to make excuses because if they want finals they are going to have to grind the season out and fight against the odds. If they can do it it will be a massive confidence boost. Heroes are made when the chips are down.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Here is an insight into who is carrying the team.

I ran through match reports on AFL.com
And tallied who was named in the best week by week.

Marshall 10
Sinclair 8
Crouch 8
Wilkie 6

Steele 6 (playing though injury)
Wood 6 (ditto)
Snags 5 (missed the last 2 games)
Owens 5 (19 years old!)

In the 7 games since the Hawks game, when we started playing insipid footy.

Crouch 5 ( 2 winning / 3 losing )
Sinclair 5 ( 2 winning / 3 losing )
Wanganeen-Milera 5 ( 1 win/4 losing )
Marshall 4 (2 wins / 2 losses )
Wilkie 3 ( 1 win / 2 losing ).
Hill 3 ( 3 losses ).

Steele 2
Owens 1
King 1
Wood 1
Gresham 1
Windhager 1
Snags 1
Battle 1

 

[St Kilda Death]

Looking back on afltables, it is interesting to note that GC were the older and more experienced team on the weekend.

That would be the case almost every week this year I’d say.

Not only are we playing a lot of kids but our leadership/senior group (Steele, Wilkie, Sinclair, Marshall) are on the younger side (27ish)
Compared to most clubs
Eg suns Witts, swallow, Ellis, Collins casboult 30 year olds.

Eg Collingwood
Pendlebury 35
Howe 33
Sidebottom 32
Cox 32
Mitchell 30
Elliot 30
Mihocek 30
Adams 29
Crisp 29
Moore 27
Degoey 27

Our oldest last week:
Hill 30
Webster 30
Wood 29
Crouch 29
Sinclair 28

 

[The Punter]

That would be the case almost every week this year I’d say.

Not only are we playing a lot of kids but our leadership/senior group (Steele, Wilkie, Sinclair, Marshall) are on the younger side (27ish)
Compared to most clubs
Eg suns Witts, swallow, Ellis, Collins casboult 30 year olds.

Eg Collingwood
Pendlebury 35
Howe 33
Sidebottom 32
Cox 32
Mitchell 30
Elliot 30
Mihocek 30
Adams 29
Crisp 29
Moore 27
Degoey 27

Our oldest last week:
Hill 30
Webster 30
Wood 29
Crouch 29
Sinclair 28

It's worth pointing something our regarding these numbers.

Jimmy Webster was one of the older players for us on the weekend at 30. He's played 143 games. That's at least 50 short of what you would expect a 30 year old to be at. Wood at 29 has played 110. This has been a problem for us for a very long time...

... but it is being addressed. Windy and NWM are in their second season and are past 30 games played. Owens at 23 - none of these three are yet 21 years old. Phillipou at 17, Caminiti at 14 in their first seasons.

So we are getting games into kids all of a sudden, but it didn't really happen before last year.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It's worth pointing something our regarding these numbers.

Jimmy Webster was one of the older players for us on the weekend at 30. He's played 143 games. That's at least 50 short of what you would expect a 30 year old to be at. Wood at 29 has played 110. This has been a problem for us for a very long time...

... but it is being addressed. Windy and NWM are in their second season and are past 30 games played. Owens at 23 - none of these three are yet 21 years old. Phillipou at 17, Caminiti at 14 in their first seasons.

So we are getting games into kids all of a sudden, but it didn't really happen before last year.

Webster has had more than his share of injury woes, but i think its very rarely he wasn't selected when available.

 

[St Kilda Death]

It's worth pointing something our regarding these numbers.

Jimmy Webster was one of the older players for us on the weekend at 30. He's played 143 games. That's at least 50 short of what you would expect a 30 year old to be at. Wood at 29 has played 110. This has been a problem for us for a very long time...

... but it is being addressed. Windy and NWM are in their second season and are past 30 games played. Owens at 23 - none of these three are yet 21 years old. Phillipou at 17, Caminiti at 14 in their first seasons.

So we are getting games into kids all of a sudden, but it didn't really happen before last year.

Think Webster, wood and crouch are all short on games played for their age, due to injuries

 

[The Punter]

Webster has had more than his share of injury woes, but i think its very rarely he wasn't selected when available.

To an extent it doesn't matter why they didn't play. We end up having a lot of older players who haven't played many games.

Since we came good under Grant Thomas (so about 2004), we've drafted 2 players who played 200 games for the club: Sam Gilbert (2005) and Jarryn Geary (2006). Seb Ross is on 195. All three of those guys have a core constituency of St Kilda supporters who don't think they should have got to that many games (Gilbert almost won us a GF, Geary was captain and Ross has won 2 B&Fs). Hopefully we are now seeing that change.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

To an extent it doesn't matter why they didn't play. We end up having a lot of older players who haven't played many games.

Since we came good under Grant Thomas (so about 2004), we've drafted 2 players who played 200 games for the club: Sam Gilbert (2005) and Jarryn Geary (2006). Seb Ross is on 195. All three of those guys have a core constituency of St Kilda supporters who don't think they should have got to that many games (Gilbert almost won us a GF, Geary was captain and Ross has won 2 B&Fs). Hopefully we are now seeing that change.

I'm not sure its that big of a deal in some cases.
Wilkie may not make 200, but that doesn't limit his ability or experience.

You don't stop learning ,but after a while you are experiencing the same thing over and over.
Improvement is phenomenal over your first 50 games, i would think not so much over the last 50 of a long term player.

 

[Nutsngum]

So I watched the Steele interview you people are flapping on about and **** me dead you are a bunch of whiners still acting shitty from the weekend. Perfectly fine interview that you can tell has Lyon written all over it in focusing on the now and avoiding standard leading questions about finals etc..

I dont know exactly how good Steele is as a leader on the field, I dont claim to pay attention to every point he may or may not have impact on team mates but I do think but some of the opinions about him are emotive toxic garbage from a bunch of guys who should know better.

This place is such a ****ing miserable shit pile all the ****ing time, **** me its tiring.

 

[phantom13]

So I watched the Steele interview you people are flapping on about and * me dead you are a bunch of whiners still acting shitty from the weekend. Perfectly fine interview that you can tell has Lyon written all over it in focusing on the now and avoiding standard leading questions about finals etc..

I dont know exactly how good Steele is as a leader on the field, I dont claim to pay attention to every point he may or may not have impact on team mates but I do think but some of the opinions about him are emotive toxic garbage from a bunch of guys who should know better.

This place is such a ******* miserable s*t pile all the ****** time, * me its tiring.

Lol, solid melt. Been overdue for a while id say.

 

[The Punter]

I'm not sure its that big of a deal in some cases.
Wilkie may not make 200, but that doesn't limit his ability or experience.

You don't stop learning ,but after a while you are experiencing the same thing over and over.
Improvement is phenomenal over your first 50 games, i would think not so much over the last 50 of a long term player.

Wilkie was drafted as a rookie, played his first AFL game at 23, hasn't missed a game since and has one AA squad appearance, probably about to be two. Fair to say he's an outlier.

 

[gringo2011]

Webster has had more than his share of injury woes, but i think its very rarely he wasn't selected when available.

Ratts sat him out preferring Paton and Coff.

 

[malevu]

Lyon seems to be suggesting some changes this week. Will be interesting to see who are the sacrificial lambs (if any).
He spoke last week about the same players making the same skill errors all the time. Puts Gresh and Doogs in the gun. It sounds like Cordy will miss again so maybe Howard will be spared.

I reckon he'll give Bytel his chance this week and maybe even Highmore. They are the only two at Sandy that are performing consistently. Possibly Campbell. They all won't get a gig but I expect Lyon will roll the dice with one or two of them. It all depends on the fitness and availability of Higgins, Billings and Hayes.

The outs will be the most interesting for me as it will give some insight to Lyon's thinking. Especially if it's Gresham with him being unsigned to date.

 

[gringo2011]

So I watched the Steele interview you people are flapping on about and * me dead you are a bunch of whiners still acting shitty from the weekend. Perfectly fine interview that you can tell has Lyon written all over it in focusing on the now and avoiding standard leading questions about finals etc..

I dont know exactly how good Steele is as a leader on the field, I dont claim to pay attention to every point he may or may not have impact on team mates but I do think but some of the opinions about him are emotive toxic garbage from a bunch of guys who should know better.

This place is such a ******* miserable s*t pile all the ****** time, * me its tiring.

It's another frustrating season looking like ending in nothing. He's probably copping it unfairly but AFL is a pressure cooker environment. He'd know what to expect by now. He's probably feeling as popular as Dan Andrews right now with the way the side is performing. I thought he was fine.

 

[Miha]

I reckon delete this entire thread, yuck game of footy

 

[austinnn]

To an extent it doesn't matter why they didn't play. We end up having a lot of older players who haven't played many games.

Since we came good under Grant Thomas (so about 2004), we've drafted 2 players who played 200 games for the club: Sam Gilbert (2005) and Jarryn Geary (2006). Seb Ross is on 195. All three of those guys have a core constituency of St Kilda supporters who don't think they should have got to that many games (Gilbert almost won us a GF, Geary was captain and Ross has won 2 B&Fs). Hopefully we are now seeing that change.

That speaks to drafting and development.

We've also had **** all players who have actively sought a trade - off the top of my head from 2000: Lynch, Ball, Cripps, Hind, Long, Steven(?), Dunstan - so it's not like loads of our would-be-bicenturions are running around playing for other clubs.

It also tells me that playing for the Saints is a cushy job that no one wants to leave OR all the players fall in love with the club once they're in OR both.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

The coaches vote based on ability, do they?

Howard holds a key position and is in the leadership team. As far as the club is concerned, he is top tier.

Gresham has been earmarked to play midfield despite his natural forward role as they believe it's going to help him reach his potential. As far as they are concerned, he is top tier, particularly considering what they spent on him.

Now, if you'd like to insist we have more than 8 players of our first 25 in the top tier, have at it, but I'm not buying what you're selling.

If the club think Howard is top tier, then they are wildly drunk and spiflicated on amphetamines.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

So I watched the Steele interview you people are flapping on about and * me dead you are a bunch of whiners still acting shitty from the weekend. Perfectly fine interview that you can tell has Lyon written all over it in focusing on the now and avoiding standard leading questions about finals etc..

I dont know exactly how good Steele is as a leader on the field, I dont claim to pay attention to every point he may or may not have impact on team mates but I do think but some of the opinions about him are emotive toxic garbage from a bunch of guys who should know better.

This place is such a ******* miserable s*t pile all the ****** time, * me its tiring.

Negative post reported.

 

[Simon Templar]

In fairness a lot of the younger players he would like to have tried have been injured for a long period or still are injured . Take some of the young key forwards who haven’t played at all , or Hayes who I’m sure Ross would have played every game if he was fit . It also didn’t help that guys like Connolly haven’t been playing that well in the twos . Yes Highmore might have been given a chance but our defenders have played pretty well most matches and haven’t missed too many games through injury . It’s hard to drop someone like Hill when there is no one fit enough to take his place . Also remember Ross inherited this squad from Ratten so we will have to see what he does over the next couple of seasons .

Good response... fair enough. I'm pretty ignorant to anything beyond what is broadcasted on TV. I'm glad you mentioned Highmore as I been wondering all season when he was going to get another run, I thought he was pretty good in the couple of games I saw him play last year.

Still, Ross has proven that whatever side he coaches he is reluctant to field inexperienced players.

 

[CM86]

I can't understand why we have Ross again.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

I can't understand why we have Ross again.

Seb still injured