Autopsy Round 2, 2021: St.Kilda v Melbourne *SPUD'S GAME* *SINCLAIR 100TH*

[NarklesHelmet]

It felt really heavy and kind of sad just before the bounce. I'd almost do the Frawley memorial stuff at half time next season. It was really moving but not a great way to rev up.

I’m with you.

Im hardly the type to shed a tear in front of others but even though I had friends over watching it, I pretty much broke down when they were doing the pre-match stuff and had to go outside and compose myself before the first bounce... it was almost too well done.

It hit me way harder than I thought it would from out of the blue so I’m sure it could have had an impact on others who actually knew him, even though they were about to play and/or coach.

 

[lewdogs]

The ruck is a big concern but there's not. much we can do about it at this stage. The really worrying stat to me is Hunter 0 marks. He just couldn't get into the game at all.

I thought the backline was a mess last night. Lacked run and rebound and looked disorganised. I think Carlisle would have been handy last night. Coff wasn't able to do his intercepting thing. Highmore still has a long way to go. Howard was awesome.

Bytel went on to Oliver and really slowed him down, which was a good sign.

Under Ratts we have been good at rebounding after a loss. Hopefully we get some learnings from the game.

It was very hard to watch due to the number of terrible turnovers. That's also a couple of times we have been outcoached by the Dees.

 

[triggering bro]

Lonie, Buttler & Higgins is too much of the same in the forward line. All good when we are on but down hill skiers. Would love to see McKenzie played as a defensive forward.

Our tall stocks in the ruck & backline are clearly an issue. We have bugger all marking ability around the ground. Not much we can do unless Carlisle comes in. Or Marshall, Paddy & Frawley return. Until that happens Ratts needs to tweak the game plan to suit.

The last fortnight has really shown how much grunt we are missing from the engine room. Too many outside players. Steele needs support & Jones is not the answer...for now. He may gain form. Hopefully Crouch helps next week or we need to look at getting games into Bytel (he will take time, but it’s for longtime benefit) or bring in Dunstan.

Webster is a pretty big loss. Long needs to take his role. Clarke to the backline as a rebound defender. Jones out of the middle to the back flank.

Next week
Out: Butler (statement), Webster (inj), Mckernan/Battle
In: McKenzie, Crouch, Bytel

 

[Phoenix_9]

Lonie, Buttler & Higgins is too much of the same in the forward line. All good when we are on but down hill skiers. Would love to see McKenzie played as a defensive forward.

Our tall stocks in the ruck & backline are clearly an issue. We have bugger all marking ability around the ground. Not much we can do unless Carlisle comes in. Or Marshall, Paddy & Frawley return. Until that happens Ratts needs to tweak the game plan to suit.

The last fortnight has really shown how much grunt we are missing from the engine room. Too many outside players. Steele needs support & Jones is not the answer...for now. He may gain form. Hopefully Crouch helps next week or we need to look at getting games into Bytel (he will take time, but it’s for longtime benefit) or bring in Dunstan.

Webster is a pretty big loss. Long needs to take his role. Clarke to the backline as a rebound defender. Jones out of the middle to the back flank.

Next week
Out: Butler (statement), Webster (inj), Mckernan/Battle
In: McKenzie, Crouch, Bytel

You don’t drop Butler off one bad performance, he was one of our best all of last year and in the AA squad. Plenty of others that don’t have the credits that I would drop before him.

 

[LennyHayes77]

Gee there is some doom and gloom here. We lose 1 game in a 22 game season and all of a sudden it's season on the line next week?
I'm as disappointed as anyone but 1 bad game doesn't make a season.
I reckon if GWS had pipped us last week but we won this week the attitude would be completely different despite having the same record.
Some players were off the boil tonight for whatever reason but we'll be fine.

 

[Sully111]

The ruck is an issue. No doubt. But having the best ruck in the comp won't help that much if we can't stick our passes.

Our ball use was the biggest killer last night. It was next level atrocious. It kills all momentum, undoes all the hard work and just deflates everyone.

 

[BigPowerForward]

I thought that Howard with 29 possessions and 8 marks was terrific for us, but Salem had 30 possesions and 10 marks and IMO was one of their most influential players. Our forwards need to be better than that and not allow a defender to have so much impact on a game.

 

[Sully111]

I thought that Howard with 29 possessions and 8 marks was terrific for us, but Salem had 30 possesions and 10 marks and IMO was one of their most influential players. Our forwards need to be better than that and not allow a defender to have so much impact on a game.

yep, Salem killed us.

 

[Desperate saint]

I just decided to hate myself even more and I watched the replay.


What I said earlier is true. We have Marshall or Ryder in that team, and the game goes more in our favour. We have both in the team and we win by 4 goals.


I'm not going to knock Hunter as he's only in his second game but he clearly isn't up to AFL standard. Not without lack of trying or effort just isn't there yet.


I'm starting to question if Jones is in our best 22. When he's on fire, he's great, problem is the difference between his best and his worse is too great. Big difference in the two.


Jack Steele is an absolute warrior. He will finish with a couple of yellow blazers before he retires. I'm glad he's our captain for the best 5+ years. Champion.


Bytel should be in the team, hes raw, but has all the ability in the world.


One of Lonie or Higgins should be dropped. I'd say Lonie as Higgins is more versatile but Higgins should be on notice. Last night was piss weak and should not be the standard we should set.


We seriously lacked marking options. After Membrey and King, there was no other options up forward. Butler Higgins and Lonie can't mark it over head. McKernan did his best Maddy McCann impression until the last. Get Carlisle or Wood in, We got beaten in the air far too often.


Also we definitely found one in Highmore. He might not break into the scene as quickly as Wilkie, but in a couple years he'll be one of the first names on the team sheet.

On Pixel 4 XL using BigFooty.com mobile app

I reckon Wood for Lonie and Battle must play mostly as a Forward

 

[kernelT]

yep, Salem killed us.

Who was meant to be on him? Butler?

 

[jwikked]

Gee there is some doom and gloom here. We lose 1 game in a 22 game season and all of a sudden it's season on the line next week?
I'm as disappointed as anyone but 1 bad game doesn't make a season.
I reckon if GWS had pipped us last week but we won this week the attitude would be completely different despite having the same record.
Some players were off the boil tonight for whatever reason but we'll be fine.

The loss is irrelevant.
It's the way the team played. Felt like 2017 all over again.

 

[kernelT]

I reckon Wood for Lonie and Battle must play mostly as a Forward

Wood is in the same camp as McKernan & Hunter for mine.

If we’re looking to a delisted north Melbourne player to turn things around we’re in big trouble.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

Next barramundi

 

[Veer Right]

Gresham has flaws but his ability to break lines and change direction on a dime are the only things about the side that looks dynamic. He's not the problem, we need him able to front run like dusty while more limited players do the grunt work to let him off the chain. It looked more like an under 10 side all chasing at the contest with no direction or method. I think Bytel is the one we need to persist with, he is an inside ball winner who has a bit of class about him, he finds space, he's only just starting so his numbers are going to be a bit lower but he looks like he's a potential Rolls Royce in a midfield full of Commodores.

I am with you about 75%

I just think with Gresham it's all well and good when we are winning but when we face a midfield that turns up applies the heat his deficiencies come to the fore. Gresham is an outstanding clearance machine but his disposal after that lets down his good work and again while we are winning it's no big deal but against a defence switched on then it's telling.

Bytel i want to see more of but don't know if he's the answer to our issues "yet". He's part of the next rotation after Steele, Crouch, Clark which would be in any order, Gresh, Bytel, Jones and Ross. If Bytel can work both ways and be a better ball user from congestion then Ross, then i will do a happy dance because we need that sort of player desperately.

 

[SaintJunior]

Zac Jones is earning the rep of a real downhill runner...

Langdon made him look lazy and undisciplined, exposed him for a lack of desire

Langdon had Battle on him for most of the game , don’t think I saw Jones line up on him.

Regardless Jones was poor but he looked spent had no run at all

 

[Peter Wallis]

From a neutral point of view it just seemed that Melbourne were more up for the game than the Saints. They out ran and outnumbered them at the contest which is obviously work rate & the turnovers killed them. Hill & Long are usually excellent users of the footy but were completely off last night.
Melbourne had nearly twice as many scoring shots so the margin was flattering & I lost count of how many times Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

was picked out when going inside 50. A poor performance but with Crouch, Hannebery, Marshall & possibly Carlisle to come back in soon its way too early to write them off.
Finally I don't think they can keep playing the 3 small forwards Butler, Lonie & Higgins in the same team, I would only go with 2.

 

[bergholt]

Gresham has little defensive ability with less then average foot skills and Zak Jones is adequate in the midfield role but we need to find better. Struggling ruck.

To much is asked of Steele who has to apply the pressure, take the heat off everyone else and play offensively. Persist with Clark as we know he has the tools to be a gem. Big hopes with Crouch coming in next week to lend much needed support.

I think that defensive mid question is a really good one.

Of our mids last night Steele is the only one good defensively (and Bytel who only played a quarter). The mids rated on defence:

- Steele - 9/10
- Bytel - 7/10
- Sinclair - 6/10
- Ross - 5/10
- Billings - 4/10
- Clark - 4/10
- Gresh - 3/10
- Hill - 2/10

Crouch is above average in defence, another reason he makes a big difference coming in. But overall it's a pretty soft midfield from that point of view.

 

[triggering bro]

You don’t drop Butler off one bad performance, he was one of our best all of last year and in the AA squad. Plenty of others that don’t have the credits that I would drop before him.

Or Lonie or Higgins. Take your pick. As a collective they provided zero defensive pressure. Need to make some type of statement, & also believe the personnel needs to be adjusted.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

Maybe a lot of us are doom and gloom because we’re all so flat and we don’t get to see us atone until another week. Let’s look at this positively.

1) we play again in a week and take on one of the worst teams of the first two weeks (perhaps second behind north frankly). Last year we had to wait almost three months (and play on a Sunday twilight) before getting to atone for that horrible loss to north.

2) we’re up against a team that is almost as injury riddled as us and has much more problems than we do. Perfect time to make a statement and show we are back.

3) it’s only round 2; we’re 1-1 with percentage of 94. I can wager we’ve made finals from worst positions before and made top four from worst ones too.

2005 we were 1-1; finished 4th
2006 we were 1-1; finished 6th
2011 we were 0-2; finished 6th
2020 we we were 1-1; finished 6th

It’s still salvageable but we need to hit back hard and quick.
Some injury luck wouldn’t go astray too.

 

[gringo2011]

Lonie, Buttler & Higgins is too much of the same in the forward line. All good when we are on but down hill skiers. Would love to see McKenzie played as a defensive forward.

Our tall stocks in the ruck & backline are clearly an issue. We have bugger all marking ability around the ground. Not much we can do unless Carlisle comes in. Or Marshall, Paddy & Frawley return. Until that happens Ratts needs to tweak the game plan to suit.

The last fortnight has really shown how much grunt we are missing from the engine room. Too many outside players. Steele needs support & Jones is not the answer...for now. He may gain form. Hopefully Crouch helps next week or we need to look at getting games into Bytel (he will take time, but it’s for longtime benefit) or bring in Dunstan.

Webster is a pretty big loss. Long needs to take his role. Clarke to the backline as a rebound defender. Jones out of the middle to the back flank.

Next week
Out: Butler (statement), Webster (inj), Mckernan/Battle
In: McKenzie, Crouch, Bytel

Agree, I wish we'd chase Bobby Hill or a quick elusive forward like Kosi Pickett. We are slow and stodgy with a lot less energy and pace than we need.

 

[plugger66]

From a neutral point of view it just seemed that Melbourne were more up for the game than the Saints. They out ran and outnumbered them at the contest which is obviously work rate & the turnovers killed them. Hill & Long are usually excellent users of the footy but were completely off last night.
Melbourne had nearly twice as many scoring shots so the margin was flattering & I lost count of how many times Max Gawn was picked out when going inside 50. A poor performance but with Crouch, Hannebery, Marshall & possibly Carlisle to come back in soon its way too early to write them off.
Finally I don't think they can keep playing the 3 small forwards Butler, Lonie & Higgins in the same team, I would only go with 2.

It worked last week. I’d also go with 2 after the game it doesn’t work

 

[plugger66]

Or Lonie or Higgins. Take your pick. As a collective they provided zero defensive pressure. Need to make some type of statement, & also believe the personnel needs to be adjusted.

Surely you give them another week as it did work last week.

 

[LiterallyNobody]

As for the Lonie Higgins Butler debate here’s my thought:

Clean slate for all three of them. Doesn’t matter what happened last year or what credits you have in the bank - let’s focus on the here and now.

Perform this week or you’re out.

there were problems all over the ground last night and I think it’s unfair to single these three out. Hill, Jones and Sinclair all had poor games too.

Frankly I think our forward line could do with a bit more accountability so put them all on notice. Give them a target and if they don’t get it drop them. I’d like that target to be related to pressure acts and scoring involvements rather than just by goals or possessions. Let’s lay some tackles up forward and get that forward pressure we were so good at last year. Let’s get back to the 2020 saints and put last night behind us.

 

[TassieSaint]

Who was meant to be on him? Butler?

Salem seemed to be by himself a lot, so either very poor pressure by his man all game or it was a coaching issue from Ratts.

 

[TassieSaint]

As terrible as our ruck situation is I don't think that was the issue last night. Gawn might have won every hitout but we were relatively even in the clearance/contested ball situation I thought. In fact looking at the stats we were dead even on clearances with Melbourne. But our ball use was horrendous. I picked on Hill earlier in the thread but he was just the most egregious. So many long bombs under minimal pressure, kicks to 3 on 1s or just straight up kicking it directly to a Melbourne player. It was as if there was a jumper clash issue at times the way we used the ball.

Also, Gawn got into some good positions in def50 but we were pretty much picking him out every time, and I actually thought a lot of those we did a good job of bringing the ball to ground.