Preview Round 2- Richmond v Collingwood @MCG, 7:20pm Thursday 30th March

[prodigy]

We had about 13 decent players last week and we are not playing a half VFL / afl side like CFC. The argument I'm making is that people like you are harping on about dropping poor performers, yet some have tickets in the bank. Double standards there already. There were 12 poorer players than Kmac so your logic suggests they should be dropped if Kmac is dropped???
These are the changes that needed to be made IMO as I felt our midfield was a man down last week.
Miles for Houli. Floss goes back
Markov or Short for Hunt.
Kmac stays to learn how to go with a gun like Treloar as he's the only bloke equpped with the body to do it.
Conditions will suit Lloyd tomorrow and as I look through my bedroom window I see it's raining and the forecast is predicting more. Prestia is still in doubt from what I've been hearing and even if he plays I still think he will need Miles to give him a chop out. So again your argument about me wanting wholesale changes was a fabrication as I only wanted two.

Shifting the goal posts once again. One of your more traditional moves.
You just said you don't like basing your views off DT scores, but then you just used the same evidence here regarding McIntosh being the 13th worst player on the field. DT points mean absolutely f all and you out of all people should know that. McIntosh could have been dropped for a multitude of reasons and we probably won't be privy to those reasons, I personally was surprised to see him dropped, and not once did I say I agreed with it. The fact that Lambert is replacing him shits me but I'm not apart of the coaching panel.
Conditions suit Lennon better as he is one of our cleanest in wet conditions, or did you just conveniently forget that?
We don't need Miles at present especially if he hasn't been exposed to any game time since JLT3 , his defensive running is poor at his fittest level, imagine how many players will go to him now because they will know he can't keep up. No thanks.


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[TigerImposter]

Shifting the goal posts once again. One of your more traditional moves.
You just said you don't like basing your views off DT scores, but then you just used the same evidence here regarding McIntosh being the 13th worst player on the field. DT points mean absolutely f all and you out of all people should know that. McIntosh could have been dropped for a multitude of reasons and we probably won't be privy to those reasons, I personally was surprised to see him dropped, and not once did I say I agreed with it. The fact that Lambert is replacing him shits me but I'm not apart of the coaching panel.
Conditions suit Lennon better as he is one of our cleanest in wet conditions, or did you just conveniently forget that?
We don't need Miles at present especially if he hasn't been exposed to any game time since JLT3 , his defensive running is poor at his fittest level, imagine how many players will go to him now because they will know he can't keep up. No thanks.


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No you're shifting the goal posts bc you called me out for wanting hostile changes when I actually asked for less than what were actually made. IMO and it appears you were also of the opinion that there was no way that Kmac was in the bottom three . I watched the game and had him top dozen. Surprisingly the DT scores were rather accurate this week.

 

[prodigy]

No you're shifting the goal posts bc you called me out for wanting hostile changes when I actually asked for less than what were actually made. IMO and it appears you were also of the opinion that there was no way that Kmac was in the bottom three . I watched the game and had him top dozen. Surprisingly the DT scores were rather accurate this week.

I'd imagine that he failed to meet certain KPI's or shifted away from the way we want to play in order to be dropped.
Maybe we knew Cox was going to get omitted and we didn't want to go to tall in the backline?
We will never know.
If I was going to look at any fantasy scoring to mount a case in relation to player performance, it would be SC every time.
I'll be keeping a closer eye on Houli this weekend, unfortunately as I'm working throughout the day I won't be able to watch any of Markov.


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[exceptional design]

Elevating players in form from the two's is ideal, however, we need to ensure that we are not on a merry go round where the same players are recycled over and over. Give a player his chances but if he continues to fail at senior level then look elsewhere. I want to play the youth and move on from players like Hunt, Morris, Griffiths, Batchelor and yes, even Houli. The first four are perennial failures and Houli is a front runner who is found wanting in big games and when caught one on one. There are others that need to be trialled and cards marked. Determine what youth are capable of advancing and get games into them. We all want to win but this squad is incapable of delivering come finals time. Our squad is fair and we need to move on from the types I've mentioned to compete for the Altimate prize.

I guess I see it differently in that I don't really care what age the players are provided they can play well as part of the team, beat their piers at training, perform their role, and beat their opponents on game day. For example, I don't care if Morris or Hunt, or Cellis or Mendaue ever play again in the 1's.

If the kids are good enough to be in the best players in the 2's they will get there chances because of form, injury or a failed season.
If kids are not good enough in the 2's, then we have the wrong kids, certainly should not play them in the 1's, and find other players when they are out of contract. Every team turns over more kids than anything else. And they should because statistically only 2 new players per team each year end up 10 year players.
Drafting young kids is only 1 way to build a team.

Butler & Castagna (although early) show that you don't have to gift games to have a player play well in the 1's.

Putting the best in form team on the park each week is the best way to achieve success. 5% off in performance and teams lose games, and don't play finals.
I see one of our long term problems as not selecting teams on merit. E.G too many safe spots in the 1's.

 

[exceptional design]

It's the same thing with a different name but involving all assistant coaches.


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Can't we just pod cast the selection meeting. That would be more interesting
Everyone loves a bit of reality TV.

 

[Bobby Sands]

Hope you're right. Time this guy delivers consistently.

Yeah he's old as

 

[sregit]

I guess I see it differently in that I don't really care what age the players are provided they can play well as part of the team, beat their piers at training, perform their role, and beat their opponents on game day. For example, I don't care if Morris or Hunt, or Cellis or Mendaue ever play again in the 1's.

If the kids are good enough to be in the best players in the 2's they will get there chances because of form, injury or a failed season.
If kids are not good enough in the 2's, then we have the wrong kids, certainly should not play them in the 1's, and find other players when they are out of contract. Every team turns over more kids than anything else. And they should because statistically only 2 new players per team each year end up 10 year players.
Drafting young kids is only 1 way to build a team.

Butler & Castagna (although early) show that you don't have to gift games to have a player play well in the 1's.

Putting the best in form team on the park each week is the best way to achieve success. 5% off in performance and teams lose games, and don't play finals.
I see one of our long term problems as not selecting teams on merit. E.G too many safe spots in the 1's.

I understand what you're saying but I can't agree. For the last 4 years the club has not progressed, we've regularly promoted and then dropped the same players over and over. Players like Batchelor, Morris, Hunt and many others debated in many of our threads by many posters.

We as a club cannot continue to invest games into players who cannot make the transition to a consistent valued senior team member. Only fools and idiots persist with a plan of action that continues to fail. Using Castagna and Butler as examples of not gifting games is not indicative of what I have said. They have done their time in the two's and hopefully continue to provide value in the seniors. Even if it takes a couple of tries. I have no problem with this process as long as they make the transition. But to play those that keep falling back to reserves over a long period and don't advance at senior level is just stupidity.

Playing types like I've mentioned who have had their chance, just shows that the club has invested too much time into players that are just not up to the required standard. Hopefully this changes soon or we will continue to go nowhere.

 

[exceptional design]

I understand what you're saying but I can't agree. For the last 4 years the club has not progressed, we've regularly promoted and then dropped the same players over and over. Players like Batchelor, Morris, Hunt and many others debated in many of our threads by many posters.

We as a club cannot continue to invest games into players who cannot make the transition to a consistent valued senior team member. Only fools and idiots persist with a plan of action that continues to fail. Using Castagna and Butler as examples of not gifting games is not indicative of what I have said. They have done their time in the two's and hopefully continue to provide value in the seniors. Even if it takes a couple of tries. I have no problem with this process as long as they make the transition. But to play those that keep falling back to reserves over a long period and don't advance at senior level is just stupidity.

Playing types like I've mentioned who have had their chance, just shows that the club has invested too much time into players that are just not up to the required standard. Hopefully this changes soon or we will continue to go nowhere.

I agree that we have not progressed.
I think everyone can improve and no player should be black lined if they are capable of being in the bests in the 2's. And no player should be gifted games and continually played on potential either.

But is the lack of success because of the individual players or the game plan?

In 2012 we were talked about as the most exciting side to watch. Cotchin won the Brownlow. Jack 3rd in the Coleman.
We won 10 games. We lost 10 games by less than 22 pts. Our biggest lost was Rd 1 at 44 pts.
We beat Hawks (Prem), Syd (R.U)

In 2013 we won 15 games, beat Hawks (Prem) Freo (R.U). Had some larger losses. Jack finished 6th in the Coleman. Cotchin was about 10th in the Brownlow.

In 2014 from the 1st practice game against Melb we started chip chip, moving the ball slower and trying to play possession. We were lucky to make the 8.

2015 slow ball movement again, but we controlled it better and got better at it. But we were 9th for overall scoring.

2016 We played slow and had the lowest overall scoring since 2010. We were 15th.
Between 2013 - 2016 there was other experimental player positions also.
The Coaches box didn't have a great day in the 2013 Carlton final or the 2015 North final.

Had we not altered our game plan significantly from 2012 - 2013, I think we would have had more success in 2014 & 2015.

The regulars in the 1's now are still similar to 2013. The game plan they are playing this year is vastly different and more similar to 2013.
I think the problem was the recent game plan that they were previously instructed to play compared to the game plan of the opposition.
It is a bit like the chicken or egg.
I think the way the team is instructed to play determines success and good or bad reputations of players, not the other way around.
I guess we will see this year.

 

[kozi]

Dusty to have a quiet night with 30 touches and 3 goals

 

[turtle27]

It's basic courtesy... Just the same way you don't shout in cinemas, swear in front of children or any other basic form of not being a total arse when part of a community. If that sounds like the stuff of 'little red riding hood' then I pity your friends and family. I asked you with civility and you replied like a obese bogan shouting from the window of his panel van.

Yes I will ignore you

Watch it Astro, you'll cop the 'bully' and 'troll' label now, as that's TI's way.

Anyway, to the changes. Really like the fact that the club is rewarding good VFL performances, and putting it on players that don't perform well at AFL level. Miles is a bit stiff though, given he couldn't play VFL last week due to him being emergency. That said he may not have played as well as Lambert anyway. Hopefully he gets a full game this week.

KMac out is interesting, but at times he did look a little rabbit in the headlights, and his opponent lost him in traffic.

 

[partycorolla]

People forget so easily. I hope Lambert has his usual first 2 games of the year.

His usual 2 first games? he did that once...

In 2015, he did bugger all before getting injured and then picked up 9 possies in his next game.... In fact in 2015, he scored 8 goals from 13 games. Far less output than Rioli and he didn't have the younger, less developed body excuse to fall back on.

Let's hope that the only 2 games of his career where he has gathered more than 20 possessions get built on since he has spent enough time running around in the midfield.... I hope he gets 25+, kicks 2 and has 8 tackles while giving some Pies players the brazen bits.... At his best, very useful, below his best (like he was last year after the early part), just a VFL player.

 

[Jackaaa]

No you're shifting the goal posts bc you called me out for wanting hostile changes when I actually asked for less than what were actually made. IMO and it appears you were also of the opinion that there was no way that Kmac was in the bottom three . I watched the game and had him top dozen. Surprisingly the DT scores were rather accurate this week.

I'm not happy about Kmac. Should be playing . In my opinion he has more up side than most. If he isn't getting a game then we aren't doing this right.
Is he injured?


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[Calcium Man]

Not sure why people are complaining about Miles?? It was obvious after trade period he was in trouble.

Prestia is borderline elite and was taking his place.
Caddy is bigger and can play forward
Vlastuin is bigger and can play forward or back.

These 3 effectively pushed out miles who either isn't as good or have the positional fexability. He has one very good position in and under, he is not great on the spread and his defensive running is a liability.

Taking him in v collingwood is suicide. A team that loves to spread the ball. Lambert is much fitter and faster and will keep up with the pies mids

 

[Black Saab]

Dusty to have a quiet night with 30 touches and 3 goals

On those stats that's him tagged out of the game too.

 

[Grrr]

Surprised to say the least by the changes, so used to conservative selection I felt they would stay with what they had. Short is in for his kicking. Using Conca to kick out of full back is not a strategy to take into the season. Short is a fine kick and also allows Conca to play further out from goals where he can run and carry. Lennon for Lloyd was obvious. New set up with 3 smalls + Lloyd, so writing on the wall for a bloke that plays like a medium forward. We need to see what Lennon can offer and his skill set is higher than Lloyds, although he is far from guaranteed. Surprised and disappointed by the MacIntosh omission because I thought there were some good signs last week at stages. Think we will need more from our wings this week, but form shouldn't be ignored and Lambert if in form can play. Lucky day for Lambert. He is built like a wrecking ball, so maybe that is why he's in. Some lucky players still in, but that is how it is early in the season.

 

[Goldust]

I agree that we have not progressed.
I think everyone can improve and no player should be black lined if they are capable of being in the bests in the 2's. And no player should be gifted games and continually played on potential either.

But is the lack of success because of the individual players or the game plan?

In 2012 we were talked about as the most exciting side to watch. Cotchin won the Brownlow. Jack 3rd in the Coleman.
We won 10 games. We lost 10 games by less than 22 pts. Our biggest lost was Rd 1 at 44 pts.
We beat Hawks (Prem), Syd (R.U)

In 2013 we won 15 games, beat Hawks (Prem) Freo (R.U). Had some larger losses. Jack finished 6th in the Coleman. Cotchin was about 10th in the Brownlow.

In 2014 from the 1st practice game against Melb we started chip chip, moving the ball slower and trying to play possession. We were lucky to make the 8.

2015 slow ball movement again, but we controlled it better and got better at it. But we were 9th for overall scoring.

2016 We played slow and had the lowest overall scoring since 2010. We were 15th.
Between 2013 - 2016 there was other experimental player positions also.
The Coaches box didn't have a great day in the 2013 Carlton final or the 2015 North final.

Had we not altered our game plan significantly from 2012 - 2013, I think we would have had more success in 2014 & 2015.

The regulars in the 1's now are still similar to 2013. The game plan they are playing this year is vastly different and more similar to 2013.
I think the problem was the recent game plan that they were previously instructed to play compared to the game plan of the opposition.
It is a bit like the chicken or egg.
I think the way the team is instructed to play determines success and good or bad reputations of players, not the other way around.
I guess we will see this year.

Totally agree ... greatest overreaction to stage fright and a poor coaching performance in that '13 preliminary final.

 

[vmasco]

I had a freaky dream last night...my wife and i were out somewhere and it started to rain so we went into a hotel lobby and sat down. Tom Cruise came in with his entourage and wanted to use the chairs we were sitting on to do an interview. As compensation he paid for an entire floor of the hotel for my wife and I. I thanked him and thought awesome I can have a night of passionate lovemaking with my wife.
My wife ducked out to get herself "ready" but as I was heading to the room I spotted the game on the telly. it was a close one and I ended up watching the whole thing and never made it to the room....

Any way final score was Richmond 111 Pies 88!!

 

[Goldust]

Not sure why people are complaining about Miles?? It was obvious after trade period he was in trouble.

Prestia is borderline elite and was taking his place.
Caddy is bigger and can play forward
Vlastuin is bigger and can play forward or back.

These 3 effectively pushed out miles who either isn't as good or have the positional fexability. He has one very good position in and under, he is not great on the spread and his defensive running is a liability.

Taking him in v collingwood is suicide. A team that loves to spread the ball. Lambert is much fitter and faster and will keep up with the pies mids

Miles >>>>> than the eternal lovechild Vlastuin.
PS Contrary to popular opinion, Miles can play forward and well. It was largely as a forward that he made his name in his pre-season series at Tigerland and our obsession with turningVlas into a midfielder has left him on the outer.

 

[Grrr]

I had a freaky dream last night...my wife and i were out somewhere and it started to rain so we went into a hotel lobby and sat down. Tom Cruise came in with his entourage and wanted to use the chairs we were sitting on to do an interview. As compensation he paid for an entire floor of the hotel for my wife and I. I thanked him and thought awesome I can have a night of passionate lovemaking with my wife.
My wife ducked out to get herself "ready" but as I was heading to the room I spotted the game on the telly. it was a close one and I ended up watching the whole thing and never made it to the room....

Any way final score was Richmond 111 Pies 88!!

You can re-enact the the scene tonight, don't bother going our, just a nice dinner and I'll be up to the boudoir in about .... 3 hours.

 

[vmasco]

You got a Go-Pro?

 

[smurfin]

Only just seen the team changes and CBF reading the last 20 pages on everyone else's opinion.
Lennon for Lloyd - personally I would stick with Lloyd until Lennon shows a consistent run of form, but I get it. Others are providing forward pressure so Lennon's marking is probably more important for team balance.
Short for Hunt - Seemed like an obvious choice. i view it more like Conca taking Hunt's spot & Short taking Vlastuin's so he can go mid/forward or back to the back as needed.
Lambert for KMac - Surprising, but why not? Put's some experience back in the side that the other 2 changes lost. I didn't think KMac was as bad last week as many others but for this week they feel Lambert offers more.
No Miles? I think he still offers a lot and he will be in the team at some stage, but possibly too slow to match the pies style.
I'm pretty sure most posters left him out of their best 22 line-ups this year with the inclusions of Caddy & Prestia. Also Castagna & Butler performing as small forwards has reduced the "resting midfielder" in a forward spot.

 

[Tiger_ZaF]

I had a freaky dream last night...my wife and i were out somewhere and it started to rain so we went into a hotel lobby and sat down. Tom Cruise came in with his entourage and wanted to use the chairs we were sitting on to do an interview. As compensation he paid for an entire floor of the hotel for my wife and I. I thanked him and thought awesome I can have a night of passionate lovemaking with my wife.
My wife ducked out to get herself "ready" but as I was heading to the room I spotted the game on the telly. it was a close one and I ended up watching the whole thing and never made it to the room....

Any way final score was Richmond 111 Pies 88!!

loll what theee! I tipped the tigers to win by 23 points!

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Great changes shows a real direction of where the club is headed play well in the 2s and get rewarded play a sub par game in the firsts you will find yourself in the 2s
No way over the last couple of years would richmond omitted 3 players in a winning team gives hope to everyone on the list
Now we just have to beat the pies

12mnths too late for Mcbean.

 

[This Is Anfield]

rance-moore
astbury-white
grimes-fasolo

who plays on mayne? they also have sideass/whe/pendles who will rotate up forward we really going to trust houli/short/brandon ellis and conca on them

They key for both sides is to restrict forward entries and heavily pressure those entries.
Clean ball to either forward line leaves the other side in trouble.

Not sure why people are complaining about Miles?? It was obvious after trade period he was in trouble.

Prestia is borderline elite and was taking his place.
Caddy is bigger and can play forward
Vlastuin is bigger and can play forward or back.

These 3 effectively pushed out miles who either isn't as good or have the positional fexability. He has one very good position in and under, he is not great on the spread and his defensive running is a liability.

Taking him in v collingwood is suicide. A team that loves to spread the ball. Lambert is much fitter and faster and will keep up with the pies mids

Pick a name, any name, and use it to whinge about team selection.
Would have been Lennon but he's in.

 

[DontArgue4]

Pies very cocky over on their board, they are all tipping a 6+ goal win