Autopsy Round 21, 2023: St.Kilda v Carlton

[phantom13]

He was 50 metres away. Most players would make the kick but you're right Max should have known that Gresh can only kick it 40 metres and led to the ball.

I thought Gresh was a bit outside 50 and king was in the square.

Either way a 50m depth kick isn’t an easy kick for anyone. King didn’t even have to lead up he could have led in any direction except away from the ball carrier and as it was Gresh still gave him a ball he could contest. He just stopped.

Anyway, we’re in agreement.

 

[stfan]

It has been overlooked that Carlton had an extra 2 days to recover before our game. Poor scheduling and would have a big bearing on the midfield.

Clutching at straws there.

We just had three 7 day breaks in a row as were all Sunday games.

Now if the Blues had of had 7 days, and us 5, then you might be right.

It was our player's minds that was the problem, not their bodies being tired.

 

[Mowman]

It has been overlooked that Carlton had an extra 2 days to recover before our game. Poor scheduling and would have a big bearing on the midfield.

And missing Walsh Cerra Kennedy McKay McGovern

 

[beside the seaside]

It has been overlooked that Carlton had an extra 2 days to recover before our game. Poor scheduling and would have a big bearing on the midfield.

We're getting screwed on the run home with breaks unfortunately. Every side we play has a longer break than us.

 

[Minga]

It's sad that they haven't played a game all together since the 2020 finals when we were all optimistic about those 3 being a core of the side moving forward.

Really unfortunate. They were our HB line.

Paton at the time was arguably the best lock down small defender in the comp, he pocketed some seriously good small forwards that year and looked as reliable as they come.

Clark was all flourish of the half back, plenty of Pendlebury slowing down time comparisons made in the contest and looked to be on track to be a unique mid in our mix.

Coffield was arguably verging on AA40, his intercept marking numbers were literally elite, and then he’d drive it out of the backline. Was one of the best players on the ground in the finals win, and got the nod over Naughton in terms of impact on ground (as competing marking players in a final, drafted in similar spots).

Since then, all three have had LTI’s and a series of setbacks and form slumps. I’m still holding hope for Coffield, but he hasn’t played at that level of footy in quite a while now. Clark has his moments still and I’d like to keep him but he’s no certainty to stay or improve. And Paton isn’t even standing out in the VFL side really, and I’m not sure the current coaching group even consider him a lockdown small defender anymore…

Imagine if those 3 had developed together 2021, 2022, 2023. It would make our list look phenomenally better. To then have them closely followed up by Owens, Windhager, NAS, Phillipou etc would’ve set us up nicely.

Alas, all 3 of Clark, Coffield and Paton are still on our list so anything can happen from here, but I fear it may be too late.

 

[The Punter]

Just to remind everyone of how good Coff was in 2020, he was fifth in the B&F. According to the coaching staff, that year (when we made the semi finals), only Steele (AA), Butler (AA squad), Dougal Howard

20

Dougal Howard

Age

28

Ht

199cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

7.8

3star

HB

3.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

176.2

3star

D

9.9

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.7

4star

T

0.6

1star

MG

171.9

3star

D

9.0

3star

K

5.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.8

5star

MG

133.8

3star

(!) and Rowan Marshall

19

Rowan Marshall

Age

28

Ht

201cm

Wt

105kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.4

4star

K

8.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

3.4

5star

HO

20.2

5star

D

12.9

3star

K

9.3

4star

HB

3.6

2star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

17.8

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

5.8

3star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

7.8

5star

were better.

 

[beside the seaside]

Just to remind everyone of how good Coff was in 2020, he was fifth in the B&F. According to the coaching staff, that year (when we made the semi finals), only Steele (AA), Butler (AA squad), Dougal Howard (!) and Rowan Marshall were better.

He was awesome that year. It's really sad. Hopefully he can get back in the side and show something. I assume he'll get a one year extension.

 

[The Punter]

Back to a previous topic of mine:

We were younger by age but more experienced by games on the weekend.

 

[Sully111]

Umpires were pr*cks

Just sayin'

 

[stfan]

Back to a previous topic of mine:

We were younger by age

Yes at an average of 1 year 3 moths younger.

but more experienced by games on the weekend.

Basically the same. St Kilda players 1.5% more AFL games on average.

 

[malevu]

But the scary thing is our lack of midfield depth, while others like Clark have just stagnated and don't look like they're going to be able to do it consistently.

Clark is an under developed asset. Injuries have held him back no doubt but his biggest weakness is easy for all to see. He has no upper body strength and no tank.

When he plays midfield he's a clever reader and user of the ball but he is pushed off it, or out of the way too easily by bigger bodied mids. He has no presence at a stoppage and has to win the ball on skill if he can.

Without improvement in that area and improving his tank he'll never be the mid we hoped he might become. It's not too late but bravery alone won't cut it. He needs to work on his physical condition.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Which was why that play where he had Sharman on and decided to take the shot in the 2nd made my drive up the Hume stewing last night a very long one. Selfish in a small forward is expected. Stupidity ain't and he was never kicking the goal based on history.

Being reading through the autopsy and on that long drive home many comments I'm nodding my head with.

I hope the down the ground vision is actually watched. If it's not then I'd welcome any of the coaches to aisle 30 for our forwards. 3 talls up at so many contests, no small forward since Butler and Higgo play more as medium forwards and 'front and square' is not in their regular repertoire.

Whoever said Max has Daniher vibes, I really hope that's not the case but does he have the desire to turn over every stone looking for the key to success? Will he do everything to build up his body? Work on his goal scoring craft? He seems to get in his head very quickly if it's not going his way.

Oh and as a player can you say to the AFL PA, thanks that you're interested in my future but I'm getting paid exceedingly well to be good at my current job so in the other 25 hours a week I'm going to concentrate on my football because 15 hours isn't enough?

I apparently pay a lot of money for young men to study under the current agreement and to be frank I'd rather see them kick a goal from 20m out than worrying about their future job. Perhaps not 25 hours but the balance has gone too far the other way for mine. Already got a couple of my own at Uni that I help out.

It was a long drive...

I screamed the same flipping thing at the time. I knew he'd miss it and he burnt Sharman who was closer and a better shot.

If you're gonna burn a teammate in a better position, then you'd want to be ****ing certain you nail the set shot. Aaandd he didn't, obviously!

 

[CaptainRisky]

He had bulked up and looked fit. People assumed he was in for a big year because of physical condition IMO.

Talk about a dog with a bone

 

[gringo2011]

Talk about a dog with a bone

Down boy.

 

[TCB-1935]

Whole fanbase is the scum of the earth. Somehow had heaps of them in our reserved seating L1 on the wing - disgusting comments being thrown around.

Shattered about this one. Once again just good enough - they remind us in the most painful of ways.
Season over now. Try some kids out.

Have to agree re the comments about booing Stocker althoughI didn't notice it...watching the game from WA on Kayo.

Hated to see him be let go from Carlton...loved his passion, physicality and footy IQ. Hope he succeeds in his footy journey.

 

[Saintbloke]

I screamed the same *ing thing at the time. I knew he'd miss it and he burnt Sharman who was closer and a better shot.

If you're gonna burn a teammate in a better position, then you'd want to be ******* certain you nail the set shot. Aaandd he didn't, obviously!

It was selfish play that resulted in a lost goal. Gresh, Higgins and King need to learn a bit about team play

 

[Mowman]

It was selfish play that resulted in a lost goal. Gresh, Higgins and King need to learn a bit about team play

Higgins has over 80 plus goal assists this year

 

[Saintbloke]

Higgins has over 80 plus goal assists this year

More than just goal assists- there's defensive play, chasing, pressure. Our forwards got found out again Carlton.

 

[gringo2011]

Higgins has over 80 plus goal assists this year

I reckon we need to learn some team work up front still. We actually looked good early in the year with Cordy as a decoy who pulled the play out wide and opened up holes. Higgo is the only forward that has kept his scoring ticking over regularly too.

 

[Mowman]

I reckon we need to learn some team work up front still. We actually looked good early in the year with Cordy as a decoy who pulled the play out wide and opened up holes. Higgo is the only forward that has kept his scoring ticking over regularly too.

Max needs to lead, every club knows he just stands and doesnt move

 

[gringo2011]

Max needs to lead, every club knows he just stands and doesnt move

Have Cordy stand behind him and give him a bit of a Touk from behind every time he looks like he stops running.

 

[Mowman]

More than just goal assists- there's defensive play, chasing, pressure. Our forwards got found out again Carlton.

Yep and Butler is the best defensive forward going around its a good mix

Higgins job is to get goals and he does that well, he is the least of our problems

 

[Sully111]

Max needs to lead, every club knows he just stands and doesnt move

Reckon we need a forwards coach that makes that happen

 

[Mowman]

Reckon we need a forwards coach that makes that happen

Maybe he just not doing what he is asked to do ?

 

[Sully111]

Maybe he just not doing what he is asked to do ?

Maybe.

I don't see a forward structure that seems to work well though.

How much of that is delivery... who knows