Autopsy Round 3, 2021: Essendon v St.Kilda *STEELE 100TH* *CLARK 50TH* *CROUCH DEBUT*

[George]

In '97 though, we bounced back, but my worry is that this outfit doesn't look like doing that with only one consistent contributor so far in three games, in Steele. It's a big ask to win with only one player having a red hot crack at it.

In 96 we missed the finals, at least last year we've proven we can do it.

 

[scotteydog]

George you seem to want to argue about my proposition of timeframe, more than the actual reality of it. Bottom line is, don't have a birth, that is going to impact on the pointy end of the season. And expect the unexpected. Surely as a professional sportswoman\man they can work this out, especially as they are getting bloody well paid to be in this position.

 

[Enclosed_Animal]

This isn't a gameplan issue...

It's a spirit and effort issue, if the group aren't putting in the required effort no gameplan will stand up..

Very very strongly disagree here. Been reading page after page of these ‘effort’ comments and need to vent (avoided this thread last night as I knew it would be melt city). Roo was repeating the same 'effort' line he always uses too. Was our effort yesterday substandard? Yes. Is this the real issue? IMO absolutely not.

The players could have all run around like headless chooks, made 100+ tackles and been ‘strong in the contest’ like it was 2016 all over again. All that would have meant is we got beaten by 6 goals instead of 13. Yesterday was a failure of structure and gameplan. Not personnel (although that didn't help). Not effort (that didn't help either). As a few of us have been banging on for weeks (and late last year too) the root of our problem is actually structure and gameplan.

We are a 10 goal better side then what Essendon put out yesterday (even with injuries). Yes the lack of effort was sickening to watch as a supporter. But effort (or lack thereof) is not the important issue here. Same way the solution to our problem is not ‘try harder’ and ‘lay more tackles.’ This is not local amateur footy, and if that was the solution Richo would be a 6 time premiership coach.

2 weeks in a row, we have been torched by a better coached and prepared side (actually using the new rules to help them). If Leon Cameron could actually coach, it would have been 3 weeks.

As we discussed in last weeks autopsy, Chris Scott found the blueprint to beat us last year. Everyone else is just catching on. Ratts: WE NEED A FU**ING PLAN B for when teams start hitting 20-40 metre short kicks all the way up the field. FFS you and Rath were at Hawthorn when they perfected keepings off. You know how it works. Why do we not play something like the structure Richmond does to combat this?? Clog up the corridor all day long, and put 3 or 4 quality intercept markers behind the ball with a full licence to roll off their opponent (starting from a central position). Give them the 20 metre kick, but make sure it goes sideways or toward the boundary. Concentrate on intercepting any kick with any height on it, and push teams sideways by clogging up central leading lanes. With Howard, Carlisle, Battle and Coff, we have the personnel to run that. Why not give it a go?

Also for the love of all that is good, please please kill the 3 small forward thing dead. NOW!! This hasn’t worked since halfway through last year. We need a plan that is not bomb the ball on Kings head and hope Butler roves it and kicks a goal. We cant just turn up and keep playing as though it was 9 months ago. Sooooo much has happened since then, and we have simply not adapted. Just look at our kickins and compare that to Sydney (or any team that has actually adapted to 2021). Of course this is fixable. But as of today, we are light years behind.

Maybe a 10+ goal defeat by a bottom 4 side is exactly the wake up call we need? No papering over the cracks now (which we might have been able to do if we gave good ‘effort’). Time to get to work Ratts!!

Couple of other random musings as I battle last nights hangover.

Versatility

I was sitting watching at one stage and looked around (think it was the third quarter). Battle was on a wing. Hill back pocket. Carlisle ruck. McKernan FF. Crouch HFF. King bench. Coff standing as a KPD. WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K

I think we have taken this ‘versatility’ and multiple role concept too far. Exhibit 1A Josh Battle. As Brut said yesterday, he should 100% request a trade. Ratten is killing his career with this wing experiment. Why when we have Hill and Billings is Battle anywhere near a wing? Come to think of it, when is the last time anyone saw Hill on a wing. Saw him at full forward. Saw him in the back pocket. Maybe wingman Brad Hill might play like the wingman Brad Hill we recruited if we played him on a wing? Just a thought.

Also, we got Crouch as a contested ball pig. He is very good defensively. Why when Essendon kept walking it out of the middle (like Melbourne did last week), is B.Crouch getting 8 of his touches in the FWD 50 and his heatmap looking pretty similar to King? Even with an injured Gresh, he still played very very limited mid minutes (yet still managed 3 centre clearances and 5 tackles). This just makes no sense

Also, still waiting for someone actually explain to me why Carlisle didn’t play rd 1 & 2?? Mindboggling decision

Leadership

Absolutely right call with the changes to our leadership group. Steele showed yesterday he is our skipper. Now and into the future!! Howard been our best player all year. Membery more then pulling his weight! Got those calls 100% right.

However, looking at our leadership group makes me wonder, are we actually ready to have a conversation about Wilkie yet?? Picked every week since he got here. Contract extension after 6 months. Leadership group this year. Also not big or strong enough for a KPD. Not quick enough for a small defender. Not a regular intercept marker. Been only average 1v1 for a while now. Kicking is solid, but hardly a weapon. Watching live, has had some terrible positioning the last 2 weeks. IMO, Highmore did no better or worse then him in rounds 1 & 2, and they were his first two games. Probably going to get flamed for this, but are we ready to discuss whether we just keep picking Wilkie week in week out without question? Or is this one going to run 9 months behind like our gameplan too?

 

[scotteydog]

You’ve lost the plot.

Like your profile pic

 

[The Jack]

George you seem to want to argue about my proposition of timeframe, more than the actual reality of it. Bottom line is, don't have a birth, that is going to impact on the pointy end of the season. And expect the unexpected. Surely as a professional sportswoman\man they can work this out, especially as they are getting bloody well paid to be in this position.

You just don’t get it do you.

 

[SaintersUnite]

George you seem to want to argue about my proposition of timeframe, more than the actual reality of it. Bottom line is, don't have a birth, that is going to impact on the pointy end of the season. And expect the unexpected. Surely as a professional sportswoman\man they can work this out, especially as they are getting bloody well paid to be in this position.

So in your opinion a professional footy player shouldn’t think about starting a family until they’ve retired at the ripe age of 30-35?

They are human you know.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sunny3193]

I love how a post debacle melt thread has morphed into an argument about gestation.
This has made my afternoon.

 

[scotteydog]

So in your opinion a professional footy player shouldn’t think about starting a family until they’ve retired at the ripe age of 30-35?

They are human you know.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

No, absolutely, not what I am saying. You're just looking at it from your opinion, thats ok. Just don't get snakey, for me having mine.

 

[Munga]

I can't believe Ratts and co. have fkd this up and didn't find a plan for 2021.

Bit harsh from me saying we didn't plan for the season, especially when the AFL change the rules on the eve of the season. I mean the problem is that we are a month past that and showing zero signs of adjustment. Give the boys a chance, coaches.

 

[scotteydog]

No, absolutely, not what I am saying. You're just looking at it from your opinion, thats ok. Just don't get snakey, for me having mine.

Read the lines, I'm saying, you have the year to work it out, where it is not going to impact the pointy end of the season. And as a professional sportsman, who plays in a team sport, & paid bloody well to do it, it can be planned better, surely. And how often in AFL, do you actually see it happen?

 

[Saints TV]

For anyone that needs some therapeutic watching / venting.




Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[jwikked]

George you seem to want to argue about my proposition of timeframe, more than the actual reality of it. Bottom line is, don't have a birth, that is going to impact on the pointy end of the season. And expect the unexpected. Surely as a professional sportswoman\man they can work this out, especially as they are getting bloody well paid to be in this position.

When the kid was conceived, nobody had any idea that the season would run as long as it did. Your complaint is nothing more than attempt to throw barbs.

 

[bennymc7]

Very very strongly disagree here. Been reading page after page of these ‘effort’ comments and need to vent (avoided this thread last night as I knew it would be melt city). Roo was repeating the same 'effort' line he always uses too. Was our effort yesterday substandard? Yes. Is this the real issue? IMO absolutely not.

The players could have all run around like headless chooks, made 100+ tackles and been ‘strong in the contest’ like it was 2016 all over again. All that would have meant is we got beaten by 6 goals instead of 13. Yesterday was a failure of structure and gameplan. Not personnel (although that didn't help). Not effort (that didn't help either). As a few of us have been banging on for weeks (and late last year too) the root of our problem is actually structure and gameplan.

We are a 10 goal better side then what Essendon put out yesterday (even with injuries). Yes the lack of effort was sickening to watch as a supporter. But effort (or lack thereof) is not the important issue here. Same way the solution to our problem is not ‘try harder’ and ‘lay more tackles.’ This is not local amateur footy, and if that was the solution Richo would be a 6 time premiership coach.

2 weeks in a row, we have been torched by a better coached and prepared side (actually using the new rules to help them). If Leon Cameron could actually coach, it would have been 3 weeks.

As we discussed in last weeks autopsy, Chris Scott found the blueprint to beat us last year. Everyone else is just catching on. Ratts: WE NEED A FU**ING PLAN B for when teams start hitting 20-40 metre short kicks all the way up the field. FFS you and Rath were at Hawthorn when they perfected keepings off. You know how it works. Why do we not play something like the structure Richmond does to combat this?? Clog up the corridor all day long, and put 3 or 4 quality intercept markers behind the ball with a full licence to roll off their opponent (starting from a central position). Give them the 20 metre kick, but make sure it goes sideways or toward the boundary. Concentrate on intercepting any kick with any height on it, and push teams sideways by clogging up central leading lanes. With Howard, Carlisle, Battle and Coff, we have the personnel to run that. Why not give it a go?

Also for the love of all that is good, please please kill the 3 small forward thing dead. NOW!! This hasn’t worked since halfway through last year. We need a plan that is not bomb the ball on Kings head and hope Butler roves it and kicks a goal. We cant just turn up and keep playing as though it was 9 months ago. Sooooo much has happened since then, and we have simply not adapted. Just look at our kickins and compare that to Sydney (or any team that has actually adapted to 2021). Of course this is fixable. But as of today, we are light years behind.

Maybe a 10+ goal defeat by a bottom 4 side is exactly the wake up call we need? No papering over the cracks now (which we might have been able to do if we gave good ‘effort’). Time to get to work Ratts!!

Couple of other random musings as I battle last nights hangover.

Versatility

I was sitting watching at one stage and looked around (think it was the third quarter). Battle was on a wing. Hill back pocket. Carlisle ruck. McKernan FF. Crouch HFF. King bench. Coff standing as a KPD. WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K

I think we have taken this ‘versatility’ and multiple role concept too far. Exhibit 1A Josh Battle. As Brut said yesterday, he should 100% request a trade. Ratten is killing his carrier with this wing experiment. Why when we have Hill and Billings is Battle anywhere near a wing? Come to think of it, when is the last time anyone saw Hill on a wing. Saw him at full forward. Saw him in the back pocket. Maybe wingman Brad Hill might play like the wingman Brad Hill we recruited if we played him on a wing? Just a thought.

Also, we got Crouch as a contested ball pig. He is very good defensively. Why when Essendon keep walking it out of the middle (like Melbourne did last week), is B.Crouch getting 8 of his touches in the FWD 50 and his heatmap looking pretty similar to King? Even with an injured Gresh, he still played very limited mid minutes (yet still managed 3 centre clearances and 5 tackles).This just makes no sense

Also, still waiting for someone actually explain to me why Carlisle didn’t play rd 1 & 2?? Mindboggling decision

Leadership

Absolutely right call with the changes to our leadership group. Steele showed yesterday he is our skipper. Now and into the future!! Howard been our best player all year. Membery more then pulling his weight! Got those calls 100% right.

However, looking at our leadership group makes me wonder, are we actually ready to have a conversation about Wilkie yet?? Picked every week since he got here. Contract extension after 6 months. Leadership group this year. Also not big or strong enough for a KPD. Not quick enough for a small defender. Not a regular intercept marker. Been only average 1v1 for a while now. Kicking is solid, but hardly a weapon. Watching live, has had some terrible positioning the last 2 weeks. IMO, Highmore did no better or worse then him in rounds 1 & 2, and they were his first two games. Going to get flamed for this, but are we ready to discuss whether we just keep picking Wilkie week in week out without question? Or is this one going to run 9 months behind like our gameplan too?

Agree with a lot of your points...

I just think the main issue is between the ears...

Confidence + effort= fast, direct movement and hard contests to turn it over.

Can we improve our gameplan and take away the uncontested marks? Of course.. you're spot on with that

 

[my name was taken]

I feel dumber for reading the last few pages

 

[SaintersUnite]

Read the lines, I'm saying, you have the year to work it out, where it is not going to impact the pointy end of the season. And as a professional sportsman, who plays in a team sport, & paid bloody well to do it, it can be planned better, surely. And how often in AFL, do you actually see it happen?

He planned it out perfectly to happen in October which is after the pointy end of the season and before preseason restarts. It’s not his fault a worldwide pandemic popped up unexpectedly.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Jack]

Read the lines, I'm saying, you have the year to work it out, where it is not going to impact the pointy end of the season. And as a professional sportsman, who plays in a team sport, & paid bloody well to do it, it can be planned better, surely. And how often in AFL, do you actually see it happen?

Would have thought planning a bub for mid October-mid November is perfect timing. Doesn’t interfere with finals or Pre season. What would I know though.

 

[scotteydog]

If you don't get someone's opinion, just dislike the message, rather than trying to exact your opinion on them. I find that often people here don't really read into what is being said, they just fly off the handle, wanting to vent on other's. I don't give a shite, unless, people start to question my intellect.

 

[Geary Is GOAT]

George you seem to want to argue about my proposition of timeframe, more than the actual reality of it. Bottom line is, don't have a birth, that is going to impact on the pointy end of the season. And expect the unexpected. Surely as a professional sportswoman\man they can work this out, especially as they are getting bloody well paid to be in this position.

lmao mate in a thread of shit hot takes (including my own), this is the worst one.

"expect the unexpected" Expect a global pandemic that cancelled the start of the season?

 

[scotteydog]

When the kid was conceived, nobody had any idea that the season would run as long as it did. Your complaint is nothing more than attempt to throw barbs.

Disagree, as a professional sportsman, you have the year, to work out, as to not impact, on the importance of the team game you are playing in. How long was the season extended? And their are early & late births yeah

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

Watching the footy today I had this feeling of dread. I'd seen this horror movie before.

I saw 'Cowboy' Neale and Barry Breen play for The Saints when I was a little tacker.
I am now certain they are the only St Kilda premiership players I will see play for us.

If Collingwood can have an off day and still get a draw, if it can rain for Geelong on GF day when they have the better wet trackers, if everything that could go wrong just about did go wrong off field in GF week of '97 it is clear it is just not meant to be.
It is so sad but I must make peace with this realization.
Will enjoy watching the champions we produce. Our top end creamy talent has always matched the rest of the comp even if our teams haven't.
Will still support St Kilda but understand they will never actually be the Mighty Saints.

This is the best summary of our club!!!!!!!!

 

[scotteydog]

lmao mate in a thread of sh*t hot takes (including my own), this is the worst one.

"expect the unexpected" Expect a global pandemic that cancelled the start of the season?

Your'e not actually taking any notice, just beating your chest mate, no worries

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

So when is it OK to have a child as a professional footballer?

Condoms only from Christmas to valentines day

Problem solved (and if the condoms break we sue and wipe off debt win/win)

 

[Joffaboy]

FYI - I’m tipping us next week. Genuinely think we’ll win. There you go.

We as in WcE?

 

[Max the great]

How Bytel isn’t playing is beyond me when someone like McKenzie has played 50 games.

McKernan was delisted by Essendon last year but he’s meant to be our ruck saviour?

Some of the selections have been beyond bizarre. Play Allison if he’s going to give a contest.

I was highly critical of the stupid team selections this week and was told they were all fine.

 

[PostmanBish]

Outbreak of covid could do it

If y'all could hold off on the outbreak until Thursday afternoonish, I'd like to enjoy my couple of days in the Rutherglen en route back to Ballarat, before we're thrown into lockdown ... From Thursday afternoon, get the super-spreaders working overtime to initiate HubLife Mk.II.