Autopsy Round 3: Gold Coast Suns v Some rabble

[William Wonka]

Anyone looking for a plus out of this game should consider Tasmania are openly pushing for a failed Suns team to relocate there.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...h/news-story/dc1fce64feafaae035b72dfabb6ff0aa

Sundays game pretty much put paid to Gold Coast going anywhere anytime soon.

Not suggesting for one second that Hawthorn would throw a game for a mere $4 million a year in sponsorship, but you have to admit it is a small silver lining

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Anyone looking for a plus out of this game should consider Tasmania are openly pushing for a failed Suns team to relocate there.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...h/news-story/dc1fce64feafaae035b72dfabb6ff0aa

Sundays game pretty much put paid to Gold Coast going anywhere anytime soon.

Not suggesting for one second that Hawthorn would throw a game for a mere $4 million a year in sponsorship, but you have to admit it is a small silver lining

 

[TARGETMAN]

Funny chat with roughy at the meet n greet at Metricon. I was talking about the team with him and he said the back end of the year will be better than what we are offering now. Im just curious on what that means. Is it because there are too many newbies in the team and they have to fit in, or is it that Clarko is shuffling players into to many different positions or is there a rift that will be fixed mid year. Or am i just miss interpenetrating what he said way wrong. thoughts

 

[Mr Lizard]

thoughts

I like pie.

 

[Bumps"N"Grins]

Funny chat with roughy at the meet n greet at Metricon. I was talking about the team with him and he said the back end of the year will be better than what we are offering now. Im just curious on what that means. Is it because there are too many newbies in the team and they have to fit in, or is it that Clarko is shuffling players into to many different positions or is there a rift that will be fixed mid year. Or am i just miss interpenetrating what he said way wrong. thoughts

I take it that its a gelling thing from what keeps getting rolled out in sound bites in the media. Smithy "when we gel", Roughy "just need to gel better" and such. Really how hard can it be to decide what gel to use? and must the team all use the same gel? maybe if the boys all got buzz cuts there would be no need to gel at all.

 

[Mr Lizard]

 

[Agent Smith]

Not wanting to be contraversial, but at the start of the game a lot of Suns players were targetting O'Meara, which is what was to be expected. But did any Hawks players come in and sort them out? Can anyone who was at the game describe what happened before the opening bounce, as I'm simply going off tv coverage. Jaeger actually started in the forward line if I recall, which means he should have been in the vicinity of our captain. Did our big FF throw his weight around and knock a few of these Suns players off their feet? Did anyone come in and bump a few of these guys back or did they leave it all up to O'Meara to look after himself?

I'm not suggesting O'Meara isn't a big boy nor should it have affected his game, but simply allowing the Suns to throw their weight around would simply acknowledge we were on their home turf and they could do whatever they liked. Mentally, that would have been a big confidence boost for GC from the very start and allowed them to play physical football throughout the game. Meantime, if we did nothing and stood around and allowed that to happen without even a smidgen of retribution... wow, that wouldn't have happened a couple of years ago. I'm hoping we made a statement, but I couldn't see it. So are we really a happy team at Hawthorn, or just a bunch of melancholy individuals just going through the motions?

 

[grumbleguts]

Funny chat with roughy at the meet n greet at Metricon. I was talking about the team with him and he said the back end of the year will be better than what we are offering now. Im just curious on what that means. Is it because there are too many newbies in the team and they have to fit in, or is it that Clarko is shuffling players into to many different positions or is there a rift that will be fixed mid year. Or am i just miss interpenetrating what he said way wrong. thoughts

I thought you were a hawks supporter. How come you were at the game guiding Suns kicks thorugh the goals with your suns target? (I also know you are a suns member but thought this was just in a financial sense.)

 

[Gunstall555]

I thought you were a hawks supporter. How come you were at the game guiding Suns kicks thorugh the goals with your suns target? (I also know you are a suns member but thought this was just in a financial sense.)

I was going to ask this same question!!

 

[TARGETMAN]

i had my son and a mate doing the hawks target up the northern end. They didnt have many uses of it. and yes i am a member of the hawks and suns. suns because i love afl and i live on the coast and the hawks because i do. since 82. it was a tuff night.

 

[Off The Couch]

i had my son and a mate doing the hawks target up the northern end. They didnt have many uses of it. and yes i am a member of the hawks and suns. suns because i love afl and i live on the coast and the hawks because i do. since 82. it was a tuff night.

I know you aren't the only poster who supports two sides but I do find it bizzare. I have a soft spot for the Dees but never in a million years would I cheer them over the Hawks - I've never even bought a membership or sent money there way.
Each to there own

 

[Thaihawk]

Hate the critics judging Rough's captaincy on just three games in over a year, and Jeager's value after just three in over two. - No idea!

 

[Wandering Hawk]

One problem with valuing the picks that we gave away for Jaeger is that they wouldn't come good or be known to come good for 3-5 years. So we would both lack the support now and also be unsure of our rebuild for 3-5 years - that could hugely mess up timing. If you've developed your top pick mid and been thrashed for a few years and built round him and he turns out to be JOR or Schoenmakers or Vickery, what then? Your timings would be screwed up for keeping/trading older players etc.

JOM is good now. He's available and an instant best 22 player right now when we need him and lack midfield depth. Imagine having some kid without match fitness who'll take two years in the reserves before he plays and has no experience... We'd be stuffed and far from a destination club. And our second round picks would be particularly more speculative kids with longer appraisal periods before we'd know.

Certainty is worth far more than speculation, and the future rightly trades at a substantial discount to known quality now. If we went the picks we'd also be trading out our stars because any flag would be five plus years off so we'd have to go full rebuild of our backline and forward line too. That's a high cost for a speculative stab at a round 1 pick being better than JOM and two second round picks compensating us for the time lag and uncertainty, whilst hoping that we can trade our stars out for at least en par kids who will be ready in five years. Those two second rounders would need to lock us a flag shot in five years or they're just a bad trade.

 

[OzJohnnie]

I like pie.

#POTY2017

 

[Hawthorn23]

Highlights from the game

 

[Satchel]

In affectionate rememberence
of
Australian Rules Football which
died at Metricon Stadium
on
9th April 2017
Deeply lamented by a large circle of
sorrowing friends & acquaintances
RIP

NB The body will be cremated & the
ashes taken to Waverley

 

[muston09]

I know you aren't the only poster who supports two sides but I do find it bizzare. I have a soft spot for the Dees but never in a million years would I cheer them over the Hawks - I've never even bought a membership or sent money there way.
Each to there own

Its simple, he lives on the gold coast and cannot watch hawks every second week, god they didn't play in qld for four years running not so long ago! So he gets a Suns membership to save money going to watch Afl games.

 

[muston09]

Also if not for people like Targetman, afl would be stuffed in Qld.

 

[Off The Couch]

Its simple, he lives on the gold coast and cannot watch hawks every second week, god they didn't play in qld for four years running not so long ago! So he gets a Suns membership to save money going to watch Afl games.

I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make
I live in WA and even if they do come here you can't get into see them
And as I said "bizzare to be the target for the Suns against the Hawks, but each to their own"

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

One problem with valuing the picks that we gave away for Jaeger is that they wouldn't come good or be known to come good for 3-5 years. So we would both lack the support now and also be unsure of our rebuild for 3-5 years - that could hugely mess up timing. If you've developed your top pick mid and been thrashed for a few years and built round him and he turns out to be JOR or Schoenmakers or Vickery, what then? Your timings would be screwed up for keeping/trading older players etc.

JOM is good now. He's available and an instant best 22 player right now when we need him and lack midfield depth. Imagine having some kid without match fitness who'll take two years in the reserves before he plays and has no experience... We'd be stuffed and far from a destination club. And our second round picks would be particularly more speculative kids with longer appraisal periods before we'd know.

Certainty is worth far more than speculation, and the future rightly trades at a substantial discount to known quality now. If we went the picks we'd also be trading out our stars because any flag would be five plus years off so we'd have to go full rebuild of our backline and forward line too. That's a high cost for a speculative stab at a round 1 pick being better than JOM and two second round picks compensating us for the time lag and uncertainty, whilst hoping that we can trade our stars out for at least en par kids who will be ready in five years. Those two second rounders would need to lock us a flag shot in five years or they're just a bad trade.

BigFooty and footy supporters in general don't seem to have a great understanding of just how much work goes into the draft and for how little reward.

It is pretty amazing, that year after year you'll see any number of players taken after pick 25 who are delisted within 2 years.....yet supporters still think that a club who trades away 2nd and 3rd rounders are "ruining their future".

I find it quite odd.

Yes, there are some diamonds in amongst the rubbish occasionally, but it's been shown time and time again that unless you're hitting the draft with a top 10-20 pick you're not even close to being guaranteed a genuine star player(and you might even miss with a top 10 pick).

 

[Wandering Hawk]

Also 2nd+ round picks don't just become best 22 footballers. They have deficiencies that were clear enough that they weren't first round.

Abasi you spoke of second round picks quite unlikely to become a star player - I'd point out just how hit and miss second tier picks are to even produce B grade support players - you're far from guaranteed anything, let alone stars. Maybe 10% stars, 30% decent, 40% role players and the rest are list cloggers or never even debut. Here's our second round picks recently:

2010 Hallahan
2011 Hill, Kelly
2012 TOB
2013 Hartung, Garlett
2014 Howe
2015 - -
2016 - -

Hill is the only guy there who could scare an opposing coach. The rest are at best role players, plus those who never made it or are currently fighting delisting. To be kind some are still developing and the jury is still out...in the third to fifth year. Pretty speculative for the salaries spent and the games gifted into development. Pump fourteen games into TOB then give up, repeat times five or six, when only one of seven has really paid off. That's a lot of games of experience lost to spuds per A grade star found and its not even a particularly good source of B grade role players for the time, salary, and game experience expended. Having your team weakened as they blood a kid for their first ten games times six is a pretty big impact on matches... Gassing your stars because the kid needs more bench time etc...

Maybe better to just straight up bring in free agent role players at 26-28 like Henderson who their clubs are squeezing out who have the experience and are solid role players, without the massive misallocation of game experience and salary, and then trade out our second round picks to teams that overvalue them as sweeteners to turn first round picks into known experienced stars to up the yield of the first round pick.

Eg Henderson is equal to nearly all of our second pick players, given how atrocious second round picks for us have been, and how resource intensive they are, yet he comes for free pickwise and is ready made. There's plenty of B role players available because of the variability in development - teams add a stack of round two and three players in every position hoping enough come hood, and by sheer variance sometimes five are decent in the one area and there's surplus. There's a lot of list space filled because of this variance that might be better spent just straight purchasing the experienced B players.

 

[Thaihawk]

Funny chat with roughy at the meet n greet at Metricon. I was talking about the team with him and he said the back end of the year will be better than what we are offering now. Im just curious on what that means. Is it because there are too many newbies in the team and they have to fit in, or is it that Clarko is shuffling players into to many different positions or is there a rift that will be fixed mid year. Or am i just miss interpenetrating what he said way wrong. thoughts

I see this as a combination of several things. First, as you mentioned, there are the four new players. Second, we did introduce seven new faces last year. Next, we have Rough and JOM who have played very little footy for a long period of time. Add to these facts, Clarko is still trialing several in multi roles, then there is new game plans to perfect, not to mention the appalling situation we have with our rucking division, so Rough would be hoping our back half performances will be much better.

 

[Mississippi]

BigFooty and footy supporters in general don't seem to have a great understanding of just how much work goes into the draft and for how little reward.

It is pretty amazing, that year after year you'll see any number of players taken after pick 25 who are delisted within 2 years.....yet supporters still think that a club who trades away 2nd and 3rd rounders are "ruining their future".

I find it quite odd.

Yes, there are some diamonds in amongst the rubbish occasionally, but it's been shown time and time again that unless you're hitting the draft with a top 10-20 pick you're not even close to being guaranteed a genuine star player(and you might even miss with a top 10 pick).

Couldn't agree more.

That's why, in my view, the gun recruiters are those who find the diamonds, fairly regularly, from picks after 30.
There may only be 3 or 4 really good players taken above pick 30 every year.
Surely the figures would show that the Bullies have been the best at that over the last 4 years

 

[Great 2008]

Highlights from the game

Gee that was short Hawthorn23. Fingers crossed the next one has few more. Thx again.

 

[Hawthorn23]

Gee that was short Hawthorn23. Fingers crossed the next one has few more. Thx again.

Yep their wasn't much to chuck in this week. Fingers crossed for a 20 minute video against Geelong