Autopsy Round 5, 2023: Collingwood v St.Kilda

[StCicatriz]

wasnt a fan of Patons game with ball in hand. would rather webster and if coffield comes back, stocker over paton.

 

[puppy_dog7]

Bang on.

The amount of pinball footy in the contest (many of which register as contested possesions) was through the roof yesterday.

It's exactly why the casual observer who thinks it was a shit standard of footy game have no idea.

When the ball is pinging end to end as quick as it was yesterday and the pressure is through the roof, players are under fatigue and the perceived pressure that culminates makes it very hard to hit targets consistently. Add to that having half a dozen kids playing and you're guaranteed to see a lot of turnovers.

 

[Plugger35]

Bang on.

The amount of pinball footy in the contest (many of which register as contested possesions) was through the roof yesterday.

Looked like we got sucked into trying to play at the same tempo as them, they like to play at breakneck speed but they can cause them to turn it over.

We tried to do the same thing but turned it over as much or even more than they did, we just needed to slow it down and show a bit more composure.

 

[phantom13]

It's exactly why the casual observer who thinks it was a s**t standard of footy game have no idea.

When the ball is pinging end to end as quick as it was yesterday and the pressure is through the roof, players are under fatigue and the perceived pressure that culminates makes it very hard to hit targets consistently. Add to that having half a dozen kids playing and you're guaranteed to see a lot of turnovers.

I still think it was a pretty poor quality but it was really high pressure.

Fwiw the round 13 game in 09 was pressure but execution combined.

 

[stavro#4]

Looked like we got sucked into trying to play at the same tempo as them, they like to play at breakneck speed but they can cause them to turn it over.

We tried to do the same thing but turned it over as much or even more than they did, we just needed to slow it down and show a bit more composure.

We gave up possession too easily through poor disposal.

So it’s going to look like we played to their tempo. The truth is that we didn’t have control of the ball.

I’d say the biggest plus is that defensively. In 2023 - Lyons ethos stand up.

Many posters who doubted the man on here questioned it. Well it passed.

Now you learn and as the man says.

From “Class to Grass”

 

[stavro#4]

I still think it was a pretty poor quality but it was really high pressure.

Fwiw the round 13 game in 09 was pressure but execution combined.

You are talking about 2 of the statistically greatest ever sides.

 

[phantom13]

You are talking about 2 of the statistically greatest ever sides.

Yeh it’s the highest possible bar, this was pretty horrible aesthetically.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Taken another look at Caminiti v Murphy incident. Caminiti's main crime was he was accurate and Murphy was not. In terms of potential to do damage, both deserve the same suspension.

Potential to do damage BS only ever applied to Longy.
Was never a thing before or since.

 

[Hysteria]

Just caught Ross's Presser and was glad to hear him make note of Nas's chasing effort in the last quarter.
Noticed it on the telecast sitting at home and it really stood out to me as a sign that even though yesterday wasn't our day, this group is on the right track.

 

[Munga]

On the Caminiti one can someone confirm if he had a closed fist? The vision looks like open palm.

It seems like a palm strike to the throat (referred to in karate as a shotei, teisho, soko tenohira or tenohira soko-uchi)

 

[Plugger35]

We gave up possession too easily through poor disposal.

So it’s going to look like we played to their tempo. The truth is that we didn’t have control of the ball.

I’d say the biggest plus is that defensively. In 2023 - Lyons ethos stand up.

Many posters who doubted the man on here questioned it. Well it passed.

Now you learn and as the man says.

From “Class to Grass”

I thought one of the problems for us was not having reliable marking targets forward of the ball, we got away with it against lesser teams but last night showed just how much we miss Membrey and King. Without those marking targets or outlets players become hesitant or confused on where to kick it to.

With King and Membrey players know they can kick it to them with confidence they will either mark it of at least provide a contest and not turn it over.

.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Not to mention nick daicos had 5 playon kickins.

There's ~250 of his 800 metres gained right there for free.

He had a good game, but wasn't dominant- nor was he crucial in deciding the outcome

I think that’s why RTB didn’t look especially upset about it.

 

[malevu]

not saying he should be dropped but this is laughable. Higgins has been at least as good as gresham has over the past year and a bit and I'd take him long term over gresh any day of the week. Not saying gresh can't turn it around, but this is a seriously one eyed take even coming from you, mrs gresham

All I'll respond to that is by saying look how we travelled when Gresham was out the last two seasons compared to when he was playing. Higgins has been our best small forward this year no doubt but it's a small sample. He was in AA contention early last year before falling away and many here, probably including you, were calling for him to be dropped.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Overseas ATM, and all I can say is that Gather Round destroyed Kayo. Only bit of vision I've seen is Caminiti.

3 weeks, reduced to 2 for an early plea.

One week for Murphy for an off the ball strike.

WorkCover to fine Collingwood $500K for placing Murphy's health in danger by allowing him to continue to play a contact sport.

 

[PandaG]

Honestly.

That saying about losing the battle to win the war….

Feels like right now.

Pies get the points. Fair enough.

We walk away having got the most out of this game.

If our learning is that we tidy up our disposal under pressure.

Others will have watched this and will begin to panic.

And I genuinely thought we were 12 months away from this point.

Yesterday reminded me of rnd 3 2010 but opposite.
One highly fancied team the other took it right up to them but lost just at the end. Pies went away from that more confident than when they started the game.
Unfortunately we know how that year played out but for the saints this year, could be amazing being that the similarities are uncanny.

 

[bergholt]

All I'll respond to that is by saying look how we travelled when Gresham was out the last two seasons compared to when he was playing. Higgins has been our best small forward this year no doubt but it's a small sample. He was in AA contention early last year before falling away and many here, probably including you, were calling for him to be dropped.

All our small forwards are pretty streaky, Butts goes ok for a couple of weeks then super quiet, Higgo has good patches but then can't kick straight, Gresh has games like Sunday night. I guess it's the nature of the position but still think they could be a bit better.

 

[Ads734]

I thought the head was sacrosanct. or does Clark's jaw attach to something other than his head?

Nah I think David McKay hit Clark’s knee or something. Somehow Clark broke his jaw… idk.

 

[malevu]

Having watched the game again on replay two things stood out to me. As expected both teams applied heaps of pressure but their ball use was much cleaner. Even when under duress they executed properly for most part. Not so much for us.

The other noticeable thing was the number of our possessions that were smothered by the Pies. Was that their hard work or at times were we being too indecisive with the ball in hand?

On a player note I was buoyed by Clark's game. The first real signs of him becoming the midfielder we've been hoping for. He's not there yet but the signs are good if he can have an injury free year.

Stocker has the look of Stevie Baker 2.0 Love his attack on the ball and player. Someone should make a gif of his tackle on Elliott in the second quarter.

 

[PandaG]

I still think it was a pretty poor quality but it was really high pressure.

Fwiw the round 13 game in 09 was pressure but execution combined.

Most big finals that mean something are

 

[Dr Spaceman]

I hope the club and all the players are getting around Caminiti (and I'm sure they will).

Rarely has a kid come from nowhere and so quickly been thrust upon the main stage. The media around his Cinderella story has been unrelenting (how many times during broadcasts are we reminded he was working in his uncle's restaurant?) And he has shown himself to be a highly excitable, highly emotional 19 year old kid who can't believe he is living his AFL dream.

But the same media that has talked up the amazing feel good story are now all baying for his blood. Just a google search shows an unrelenting barrage of headlines all suggesting "a lengthy ban", "a long stretch on the sidelines" etc etc.

He didn't kill anyone. As many have suggested he was a bit silly however the end result was made worse by a series of circumstances.

As Hinkley said about Horne-Francis; he is simply an 19 year old kid.

He will know he did wrong and it will hurt him to know he let the team down and will miss games. With players to come back it would not be certain he returns to the seniors once any penalty is served.

Everything has been a whirlwind. It's been very emotional and he's barely had time to understand what has happened in his life.

His new mates need to get around him (and once again I'm sure they will).

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh it’s the highest possible bar, this was pretty horrible aesthetically.

It will look better when we can play longer down the line to our legitimate tall forwards.

Not excusing our ball use. It was poor. But part of that is always going short when the pressure is that high.

 

[phantom13]

I hope the club and all the players are getting around Caminiti (and I'm sure they will).

Rarely has a kid come from nowhere and so quickly been thrust upon the main stage. The media around his Cinderella story has been unrelenting (how many times during broadcasts are we reminded he was working in his uncle's restaurant?) And he has shown himself to be a highly excitable, highly emotional 19 year old kid who can't believe he is living his AFL dream.

But the same media that has talked up the amazing feel good story are now all baying for his blood. Just a google search shows an unrelenting barrage of headlines all suggesting "a lengthy ban", "a long stretch on the sidelines" etc etc.

He didn't kill anyone. As many have suggested he was a bit silly however the end result was made worse by a series of circumstances.

As Hinkley said about Horne-Francis; he is simply an 19 year old kid.

He will know he did wrong and it will hurt him to know he let the team down and will miss games. With players to come back it would not be certain he returns to the seniors once any penalty is served.

Everything has been a whirlwind. It's been very emotional and he's barely had time to understand what has happened in his life.

His new mates need to get around him (and once again I'm sure they will).

I don’t even think it was that silly, big forward shoves a big backman after some back and forth all game. He’s just unlucky it’s slipped high and murphy has a touch of the paddy mccartins.

He’s gonna get some time off cause that’s footy now but the media seriously needs its clickbait to survive.

Completely agree with the sentiment though and for the first time in a long time I actually back the club to be supporting him properly.

 

[phantom13]

It will look better when we can play longer down the line to our legitimate tall forwards.

Not excusing our ball use. It was poor. But part of that is always going short when the pressure is that high.

Yeh I think my comments might have been a little misconstrued (or misrepresented).

It wasn’t really a criticism (although I did call it horribke in the game day thread) just noting it wasn’t a very pretty or entertaining game of footy. It got turned into a scrap and thus became that sort of rolling maul that Sydney of the mid 00s used to relish. If we’d won I’d still have said it, just wasn’t the best spectacle to sit down and watch is all.

 

[StFly]

Potential to do damage BS only ever applied to Longy.
Was never a thing before or since.

Longy's career path

 

[stavro#4]

Yeh I think my comments might have been a little misconstrued (or misrepresented).

It wasn’t really a criticism (although I did call it horribke in the game day thread) just noting it wasn’t a very pretty or entertaining game of footy. It got turned into a scrap and thus became that sort of rolling maul that Sydney of the mid 00s used to relish. If we’d won I’d still have said it, just wasn’t the best spectacle to sit down and watch is all.

Yeah and I agree with that.

I’m just adding that when we can play longer. We won’t be so caught up in the congestion like yesterday.

You can stretch the ground.