Autopsy Round 5, 2023: Collingwood v St.Kilda

[True Believer]

That was never clear cut. You had just as many saying it was reportable as there were saying it was simply a football incident.

This is totally different.

I thought the head was sacrosanct. or does Clark's jaw attach to something other than his head?

 

[BrutThough]

I thought the head was sacrosanct. or does Clark's jaw attach to something other than his head?

The AFL have changed the rules and closed the loophole that MacKay got off with. That incident and the outcome is irrelevant to any suspension moving forward.

 

[True Believer]

The AFL have changed the rules and closed the loophole that MacKay got off with. That incident and the outcome is irrelevant to any suspension moving forward.

So Clark's head isn't sacrosanct?

Does that just apply to Clark, or is there a special cohort of players who are not covered by the same rules? Maybe it's players whose surnames start with a "C"? Maybe that's why Murphy thought he would be allowed to king-hit Caminiti without fear of any sort of consequence?

 

[botts]

This is interesting. Deleted it straight after

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This is interesting. Deleted it straight after

Its true that whether a player gets concussed or not is a pretty poor way to measure impact. Personally i wouldn't see an advantage in going there.

 

[BrutThough]

So Clark's head isn't sacrosanct?

Does that just apply to Clark, or is there a special cohort of players who are not covered by the same rules? Maybe it's players whose surnames start with a "C"? Maybe that's why Murphy thought he would be allowed to king-hit Caminiti without fear of any sort of consequence?

Again, the AFL changed the rules after that decision because they disagreed with the outcome and believed that act should be suspendible in the future.

It's not relevant to anything that happened last night.

 

[Saintbloke]

Yes - unfortunately looked very panicky when the heat was on - hopefully he learns from this

Disagree- missed a couple of opportunities, big generally played OK

 

[The_Steadier]

how many of all those meters ended at wilkie or battle aswell.

Not to mention nick daicos had 5 playon kickins.

There's ~250 of his 800 metres gained right there for free.

He had a good game, but wasn't dominant- nor was he crucial in deciding the outcome

 

[Joffaboy]

Let's face it, Collingwood were better. They may have relaxed a time bit getting four goals up, but theSaints gave a warning, never stop as the Saints won't.
Collingwood's pressure was elite, yet wr almost snatched a draw.
Our final minutes was the thing I took from the game, we kept at it. Stuck to our plan and continued to attact. Hard to turn back on at that late stage of the game for Collingwood and their pressure dropped.

Look out anyone else who drops the pressure, Saints won't, especially the last 10 minutes of a game.
Clark's run was indicative. We are so so fit.


On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[stavro#4]

This is interesting. Deleted it straight after

Probably because he got drilled in the comments from the collingwood supporters

They wanted the death penalty

 

[RobbieMuir]

We were 26 points down when the Pies fans started up the “Collingwood” chant. That appeared to be the defining moment when Collingwood took their foot off the accelerator and we suddenly switched to attack mode.

It looked like the chanting subconsciously convinced the Magpies players that it was all over, and they couldn’t lose from there. (Admittedly they didn’t lose from there, but another thirty seconds and it would probably have been a draw.)

So, a big thanks to the cocky Magpies fans for kick-starting our brave comeback!

 

[puppy_dog7]

Seems similar to the Gaff incident with Brayshaw from a few years ago.

Gaff was just trying to hit him in the chest to break a tag but Brayshaw dropped his knees so Gaff clocked him in the head instead and broke his jaw.

It wasn't that hard a hit but the outcome made it look worse than it was.

Are you kidding? completely different. the only comparison is they both dropped at the knees.
I think breaking someones jaw in 3 places from a genuine hook is a lot more severe then a forearm to the chin that barely dazed him.

 

[phantom13]

Not to mention nick daicos had 5 playon kickins.

There's ~250 of his 800 metres gained right there for free.

He had a good game, but wasn't dominant- nor was he crucial in deciding the outcome

I still think given how much of the footy he had and how many repeat possesions in chains he had it was moronic to not have someone give him some attention. Windy had done **** all to half time, give him the role.

41 possies and a shitload of metres at 75% or whatever in a tight game could have been the difference.

 

[phantom13]

On the Caminiti one can someone confirm if he had a closed fist? The vision looks like open palm.

If it is and theyve cleared Ballard and McKay for elbowing blokes in the head then this would seem a valid challenge.

It will depend on the length of suspension id say, if hes given a week youd take it, two you probably still would. 3 weeks or more would be dumb and youd have to challenge.

 

[bird_man]

Not to mention nick daicos had 5 playon kickins.

There's ~250 of his 800 metres gained right there for free.

He had a good game, but wasn't dominant- nor was he crucial in deciding the outcome

The fact that Lyon admitted he will do things differently next time suggests to me that he thought he had a decent impact on the game

 

[Plugger35]

Let's face it, Collingwood were better. They may have relaxed a time bit getting four goals up, but theSaints gave a warning, never stop as the Saints won't.
Collingwood's pressure was elite, yet wr almost snatched a draw.
Our final minutes was the thing I took from the game, we kept at it. Stuck to our plan and continued to attact. Hard to turn back on at that late stage of the game for Collingwood and their pressure dropped.

Look out anyone else who drops the pressure, Saints won't, especially the last 10 minutes of a game.
Clark's run was indicative. We are so so fit.


On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

In terms of a boxing bout we went 10 rounds with a heavyweight contender, they won on points but we didn't get knocked out and landed some blows.

The main positive is that we weren't outclassed or out of our depth, we showed we can mix it with them and beat them if we get our best players back.

Are you kidding? completely different. the only comparison is they both dropped at the knees.
I think breaking someones jaw in 3 places from a genuine hook is a lot more severe then a forearm to the chin that barely dazed him.

I didn't mean it was similar in terms of the force of the blow, I meant it was similar in that Caminiti was trying to hit his chest but hit his head due to the other player dropping his knees.

Players have a duty of care not to hit other players in the head but they also have a duty of care to protect their head, some even go looking to get hit.

 

[Xxxx66]

So right.
We can tell this from the reaction and atmosphere in the box during those last few minutes, and RTB‘s demeanour at the presser.
I cannot recall him being that relaxed following a one goal loss (especially to Collingwood) during RTB 1.0.
If there’s one thing we know about RTB, he plays a different game than most coaches.
I would absolutely not be surprised if the plan yesterday was all about the big picture: test the game plan, test the players, and see what we have.
Given the opposition, the performance, the outcome, no wonder he was happy.

Who amongst us here do not believe that we will beat them next time?

100%this. I felt all week that we were not going to stray too far from our normal plan , and that we would see how that plan stacks up against Collingwood and also see how our players cope with performing under more pressure.Seems RTB was taking along term view imho.I doubt the Daicos's will run around freely next time. Also think we learnt which players need more work learning to execute under pressure and some strategy tweeks

 

[Xxxx66]

I thought Paton was horrible. Seemed to me his kicks were getting smothered and his opponent was kicking goals.

Ben is one of a handful that need to learn to adjust their game when the intensity lifts. Either a lack of awareness or taking to long to kick brought him undone. But I think he is good enough to learn from it.
Byrnes needs to adopt the Dmac approach and play to his disposal limitations, because the rest of his game is pretty good.

 

[phantom13]

With the benefit of a good nights sleep the loss really isnt a big deal.

Im still annoyed because we played poorly and so did they, if we were 10% better we could have scrapped out an ugly win against a likely top 4 candidate and that would have been great but in the end we went down by a goal to a team that played in a prelim last year with 3 (probably 4) of our best players out on a night where we didnt play nearly our best footy. We will learn lessons from it and there is upside to look on.

 

[Plugger35]

100%this. I felt all week that we were not going to stray too far from our normal plan , and that we would see how that plan stacks up against Collingwood and also see how our players cope with performing under more pressure.Seems RTB was taking along term view imho.I doubt the Daicos's will run around freely next time. Also think we learnt which players need more work learning to execute under pressure and some strategy tweeks

Last night was a fact finding mission to see where we were at and what we need to improve on, a win would have been nice but it wasn't the main goal.

 

[The Punter]

Ben is one of a handful that need to learn to adjust their game when the intensity lifts. Either a lack of awareness or taking to long to kick brought him undone. But I think he is good enough to learn from it.
Byrnes needs to adopt the Dmac approach and play to his disposal limitations, because the rest of his game is pretty good.

On Paton, this is undoubtedly a contributing factor to why Lyon prefers Webster.

Also agree on Byrnes, and it worked for DMac to the point where he was able to raise his disposal limitations. Not at all worried about Byrnes, but we will see plenty of him this year because he can really gut run.

 

[bergholt]

we won contested possessions by 21 I believe - so don't think the contest work was necessarily the issue. Just getting clean hands out of the stoppage to go was. Pies shielded the space well once the ball came out and we panicked a bit.

Stats can mislead! We had a lot of contested possessions imo because we were handpassing to players who were under the pump. Lots of contested possessions, minimal impact. But also my point was that the Pies knew that they could just get it to the outside where they had ascendancy, so they just had to knock it or push it out. Not a possession, still a clearance.

 

[phantom13]

Stats can mislead! We had a lot of contested possessions imo because we were handpassing to players who were under the pump. Lots of contested possessions, minimal impact. But also my point was that the Pies knew that they could just get it to the outside where they had ascendancy, so they just had to knock it or push it out. Not a possession, still a clearance.

Bang on.

The amount of pinball footy in the contest (many of which register as contested possesions) was through the roof yesterday.

 

[The_Steadier]

The fact that Lyon admitted he will do things differently next time suggests to me that he thought he had a decent impact on the game

Ross is a wiley old fox.

He's just laying the groundwork subterfuge for when the real stuff happens in september.

I reckon it's a classic misdirection- he will be privately chuffed at how a guy like daicos can have so much of the ball against our system, yet not be a massive influence on the outcome.

It validated for ross that we don't need to make 'special case' fundamental changes to our system (eg have someone play as a tagger).

Ross is way too smart to be giving away anything of genuine tactical value in pressers.

 

[StCicatriz]

Ross is a wiley old fox.

He's just laying the groundwork subterfuge for when the real stuff happens in september.

I reckon it's a classic misdirection- he will be privately chuffed at how a guy like daicos can have so much of the ball against our system, yet not be a massive influence on the outcome.

It validated for ross that we don't need to make 'special case' fundamental changes to our system (eg have someone play as a tagger).

Ross is way too smart to be giving away anything of genuine tactical value in pressers.

100%

Lyon will be loving every game against a top 4 contender... audit time! as he put it.