Preview Round 5 vs Brisbane at the Gabba, Sunday Afternoon, 4:40pm

[thurls64]

The word used inside the club for this weeks game is "massive"

 

[Happy Idiot]

There aren't many wins since Hall was drafted that he wasn't involved in;
2012 Hall player 8 games for 2 wins and 6 losses, Suns went 1 win and 13 losses without him
2013 Hall played full season, Suns went 8 and 14.
2014 Hall played 16 games winning 9, losing 7; Suns went 1 and 5 without him
2015 Hall played 15 games winning 3, drawing 1, losing 11; Suns went 1 and 6 without him
2016 Hall played 17 games winning 5, losing 12; Suns went 1 and 4 without him
2017 Hall played 19 games winning 5, losing 14; Suns went 1 and 2 without him

In short, the Suns have only ever won 8 matches without Hall and that's counting the inaugural season that he didn't even play in. We don't want to be that team that can't win without a certain player, but we have been for 7 seasons and I haven't seen anything to suggest that this will change soon. We can't win without May or Lynch either yet neither of them is being talked about in this way.

If you're gonna badmouth Aaron Hall, be prepared to back it up. I could argue that he's the greatest player we have, but it would be bulldust. But so is asserting that the team would be better off without him when clearly it hasn't been. He had a bad day against the Dockers and was clearly better against the Eagles. If he gets dropped it would be wrong because there are plenty of players performing below his level.

No, I'm quite prepared to bad-mouth him. What I'm reading above is the definition of cherry-picking. Unless you're prepared to dig deep on an analysis of who else was injured/playing in all of those games and the overall impact players had on specific games (obviously, quite subjective), then these numbers don't mean much — we've had far too many injuries over an extended period of time to draw any accurate conclusions about importance to the team.

What I do see is a player that often shirks the contest, often plays selfish, and is one of the more unaccountable players we have. I have no patience for that player and would sooner he exited the team altogether.

 

[Lord_Flashheart]

The team that scored 17 points last week is going in as favourites

 

[SunsBhoy]

The team that scored 17 points last week is going in as favourites

I’ve noticed when it comes to Q clash form does go out the window to a degree , it’s whichever team is up for the contest on the day I’ve found.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TheSunGod]

The word used inside the club for this weeks game is "massive"

Pretty tired of words from this club. Would love to see some action once in a while.

 

[kreglze]

Pretty tired of words from this club. Would love to see some action once in a while.

This.

 

[17er]

No, I'm quite prepared to bad-mouth him. What I'm reading above is the definition of cherry-picking. Unless you're prepared to dig deep on an analysis of who else was injured/playing in all of those games and the overall impact players had on specific games (obviously, quite subjective), then these numbers don't mean much — we've had far too many injuries over an extended period of time to draw any accurate conclusions about importance to the team.

What I do see is a player that often shirks the contest, often plays selfish, and is one of the more unaccountable players we have. I have no patience for that player and would sooner he exited the team altogether.

You see that isn't really how this works. I frequently analyse patterns and show proof to support my claims. You can be dismissive all you like, but my claim that the team has been better with him in it is proven by the data. I didn't say that without him the Suns would have lost the games they won with him, however, the fact that the Suns have a 33% winning record with Hall from 2012 to the present and less than 14% is a telling stat = we have been more than twice as likely to lose when he has been out of the team.

Your disparaging argument about him is no more than a litany of beefs that Hall-haters periodically sound off about whenever his name is mentioned. So instead of placing the burden of proof on me when all I've done is show proof, how about you do the thorough analysis and prove your contentions.

 

[Happy Idiot]

You see that isn't really how this works. I frequently analyse patterns and show proof to support my claims. You can be dismissive all you like, but my claim that the team has been better with him in it is proven by the data.

I will continue to be dismissive. Nothing is proven by your data, it's incomplete data.

I didn't say that without him the Suns would have lost the games they won with him, however, the fact that the Suns have a 33% winning record with Hall from 2012 to the present and less than 14% is a telling stat = we have been more than twice as likely to lose when he has been out of the team.

Great, it's a correlation between Hall being in the team and our win percentage. You're smart enough to know it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with causation.

Your disparaging argument about him is no more than a litany of beefs that Hall-haters periodically sound off about whenever his name is mentioned. So instead of placing the burden of proof on me when all I've done is show proof

Again, I don't think you have, you've cherry-picked. And in addition, you seem to be the one trying to convince me — I stated an opinion about the talents (or lack thereof) of Aaron Hall and you've come back with a set of unconvincing stats. My eyes tell me more about Aaron Hall and how well he goes at the game — I'm not invested in changing your mind.

 

[17er]

Again, I don't think you have, you've cherry-picked. And in addition, you seem to be the one trying to convince me — I stated an opinion about the talents (or lack thereof) of Aaron Hall and you've come back with a set of unconvincing stats. My eyes tell me more about Aaron Hall and how well he goes at the game — I'm not invested in changing your mind.

You keep saying it is cherry-picking and unconvincing, but it's plain a day. The Suns had a similar record with Gaz and you can't say that was coincidence too. I couldn't care less if you hate Hall, but when you intimate that he has no talent you just perpetuate a self defeating argument.

I'm not here to say he's not flawed, he is, but he has tremendous talent that needs to be coached to its potential instead jettisoned because fans are tired of losing. I am here to discuss how he could be used differently in order to be used to his potential.

 

[SunnerSS]

the club can't have 22 aaron halls playing each week nor can they have 22 nick holman's/sextons/mcpherson's.
every club needs a balance between the selfish and selfless. usually the forwards are the selfish and that keeps the status quo.
Hall was a forward until the club moved him into the mids. he still has a forwards selfishness and that is actually one of his best features.
dont expect a chicken to come from the egg just accept its and egg and make do.

 

[Happy Idiot]

You keep saying it is cherry-picking and unconvincing, but it's plain a day.

Is it? You certainly seem convinced.

I couldn't care less if you hate Hall, but when you intimate that he has no talent you just perpetuate a self defeating argument.

I will say that you do seem to care if I hate Hall. Luckily, for you, I can't access statistics for the number of times he has shirked a contest, or this discussion would be over.

I'm not here to say he's not flawed, he is, but he has tremendous talent that needs to be coached to its potential instead jettisoned because fans are tired of losing. I am here to discuss how he could be used differently in order to be used to his potential.

I disagree, he's a long way short of being a tremendous talent. Every player on every list has talent to some degree — Aaron falls below the threshold of 'being worth it' for me. Do you care that I think that?

 

[SandyToes]

I note Stefan Martin has 21 freees for 5 against
He really is a protected species #SteveMay#neverforget
With Tom Nicholls out for the season we are one strained hammy away from ruck disaster

 

[17er]

Is it? You certainly seem convinced.

I will say that you do seem to care if I hate Hall. Luckily, for you, I can't access statistics for the number of times he has shirked a contest, or this discussion would be over.

I disagree, he's a long way short of being a tremendous talent. Every player on every list has talent to some degree — Aaron falls below the threshold of 'being worth it' for me. Do you care that I think that?

In short, you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't back it up. I'm not doing your homework for you and you have dodged all opportunities to strengthen your argument. I'm also not going to get personal with your line of questioning, so let's keep it on a level.

Hall's play this year, including JLT, has been more up than down. He was notably better at two-way running and forward defensive pressure in the JLT and against Carlton, named one of the best on ground after returning from surgery on his finger. The Freo debacle wasn't an endorsement for your argument either as he was heavily bumped with his attention averted and again when he was down injured, and had a dirty day after that playing hurt under a heavy tag. The West Coast performance was not his best, but it wasn't on him and he played the game out strongly in a well beaten side, just as the coach asked of him.

 

[17er]

I note Stefan Martin has 21 freees for 5 against
He really is a protected species #SteveMay#neverforget
With Tom Nicholls out for the season we are one strained hammy away from ruck disaster

Witts is in fine fettle and Crossley is continuing to develop in the NEAFL with 40 hitouts against GWS2. Peter Wright is a decent back up and so is Sam Day, so the two of them could do it effectively in rotation and make up for losing taps with their ball skills. At a stretch, Jack Leslie could do it as he was recruited as an undersized ruckman and plays against taller opponents regularly.

The $64 dollar question is whether Lynch would go into the ruck for us. Maybe if he signs with Richmond in Round 11 we just toss him in the middle to give our other forwards more opportunities...

 

[Peel67skin]

I don't know people listened to Dew presser , he said Hall lower his colour vs Freo and against Eagles Dew again mentioned some in the team choose to give effort when they want to . Coach can only do so much and Hall is neither 18-24 years old nor new to his teammates like Weller .

 

[Happy Idiot]

In short, you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't back it up.

I don't need to, Aaron backs it up for me regularly. And, as I've already said, I'm not invested in changing your mind. You'll come around soon enough

I'm not doing your homework for you and you have dodged all opportunities to strengthen your argument.

Again, I don't need to — and your information has failed to convince me otherwise. I'm of the opinion that his attitude to the real hard stuff, the team lifting effort, body on the line commitment, and smart decision making is sorely lacking. I'd rather take what trade value there is for him this year and build a youngster that 'bleeds' effort for the club and has more positive traits.

 

[17er]

I don't know people listened to Dew presser , his said Hall lower his colour vs Freo and against Eagles Dew mentioner some in the team choose to give effort when they want to . Coach can only do so much that is coaching them .

I feel like Dew said what he wanted to say about Hall after the Freo game. The comments about people choosing to give effort when they want to wasn't aimed directly at him and may or may not have been about him. Hall did have comparable stats to Swallow and Lyons, so in that sense he did what his coach asked of him. I saw the usual stuff too, like ignoring players in better position to run it himself and failing to anticipate turnovers where he should have been back pedalling, but these are things he can be coached on. Eade didn't coach him, he just shouted and frothed at the mouth. Dew will be sitting through tape with him, showing him where he could have made better decisions and asking for further improvement. That's coaching. If Hall fails his next assignment, he knows he's been put on notice.

 

[17er]

I don't need to.

You've admitted that you can't, so I'll leave it there.

 

[dewah07]

2MP in line in coming back this week? Or NEAFL?

 

[SunnerSS]

2MP in line in coming back this week? Or NEAFL?

likely NEAFL next week from what our injury report reads.

I don't need to, Aaron backs it up for me regularly. And, as I've already said, I'm not invested in changing your mind. You'll come around soon enough

Again, I don't need to — and your information has failed to convince me otherwise. I'm of the opinion that his attitude to the real hard stuff, the team lifting effort, body on the line commitment, and smart decision making is sorely lacking. I'd rather take what trade value there is for him this year and build a youngster that 'bleeds' effort for the club and has more positive traits.

I'd be suprised to see DEW swing the axe with more than 3 changes.
mcpherson, holman, sexton, ainsworth and young would all be more likely cut before Hall.
then no one in our reserves has the pace to replace hall.
it doesn't make sense logically.

 

[Peel67skin]

I feel like Dew said what he wanted to say about Hall after the Freo game. The comments about people choosing to give effort when they want to wasn't aimed directly at him and may or may not have been about him. Hall did have comparable stats to Swallow and Lyons, so in that sense he did what his coach asked of him. I saw the usual stuff too, like ignoring players in better position to run it himself and failing to anticipate turnovers where he should have been back pedalling, but these are things he can be coached on. Eade didn't coach him, he just shouted and frothed at the mouth. Dew will be sitting through tape with him, showing him where he could have made better decisions and asking for further improvement. That's coaching. If Hall fails his next assignment, he knows he's been put on notice.

Why not just send him to NEAFL to work on his game like Barlow ?

 

[Happy Idiot]

You've admitted that you can't, so I'll leave it there.

"I don't need to" = "You've admitted you can't". Okay, sure that's a brilliant point to leave it

 

[17er]

2MP in line in coming back this week? Or NEAFL?

http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/video/2018-04-17/alpha-sport-injury-update-round-5

Sounds like 2MP is another week away, but he's fully recovered and is set for a week of work to get back to match fitness. Not in a hurry to uncork him, especially after going early on Hanley.

What about Mav Weller and Dylan Roberton?

 

[dewah07]

http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/video/2018-04-17/alpha-sport-injury-update-round-5

Sounds like 2MP is another week away, but he's fully recovered and is set for a week of work to get back to match fitness. Not in a hurry to uncork him, especially after going early on Hanley.

What about Mav Weller and Dylan Roberton?

is it bad i thought it was a troll when i read man weller haha

on both of them tho man has recovered from his hammy niggle and played well in the vfl in bad conditions albeit and probs gets a game cause we suck

robo has no timetable because of how scary it was and the fact he had no idea of his irregular heart beat. woudknt expect him before the bye again but hour seasons over so who really cares haha

 

[OB11]

I feel like Dew said what he wanted to say about Hall after the Freo game. The comments about people choosing to give effort when they want to wasn't aimed directly at him and may or may not have been about him. Hall did have comparable stats to Swallow and Lyons, so in that sense he did what his coach asked of him. I saw the usual stuff too, like ignoring players in better position to run it himself and failing to anticipate turnovers where he should have been back pedalling, but these are things he can be coached on. Eade didn't coach him, he just shouted and frothed at the mouth. Dew will be sitting through tape with him, showing him where he could have made better decisions and asking for further improvement. That's coaching. If Hall fails his next assignment, he knows he's been put on notice.

He's 27 yo and played 100 games - he should know better than to fall back into his lazy ways when the team is trying to build pressure on the opposition and he is the release valve that the opposition can target to get through our pressure.

I hope the Lions hard tag him - at least it is 21 on 21 and he's not getting killed by a more effective offensive player (e.g. Gaff last week)