Autopsy Round 6, 2021: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda

[Premium]

A lot to play out Merrett , Josh Kelly will be chased by a few clubs with Cripps most probably heading west.
and also a lot of un-contracted players like Cerra , Hopper , Shai Bolton , Ash , Tom Green.

It's going to be interesting about Dunkley and if he leaves the Dogs , surely that will make the Merrett move happen and go to Port who want him badly , it could all have a knock on effect that move a lot of players not expecting to be moving.

 

[Munga]

The best coaches adapt. We get to see whether he adapts, or sticks to his guns.

This year, the warning signs were there against Melbourne. Then smacked in the face with it against Essendon. And yet nothing has been done.

I think the lack of adaptation has already been proven.

 

[stfan]

Interestingly enough, of all the teams the 6-0 Dees have beaten, ours was by the smallest margin.
Not at all sure what that means, but it must mean something based on what you have just said.

That is only because that the 18 point margin was illusionary. It really should have been 60 points as we were very poor that game.

 

[Munga]

As much as I'd love to see Byrnes, Clavarino, Connolly come in, I just know that the coaches will f*ck them over and kill any further development.

Clav will be on a forward flank, Byrnes back pocket, and Connolly in the ruck as we try to be smart by copying the Tigers small leaping ruck.

None of them will be told how to get the best from themselves in this sport, just fend for yourselves like Bytel has.

 

[stfan]

There are so many spot fires and out of control fires but here is my take...

I know this will sound ridiculous but we could have won the game. Ok, a lot would have had to be different but we actually kind of dominated the first quarter except we fluffed shots at goal and allowed them to rebound. Which brings me to my first point.

1. MENTAL. We are very mentally fragile. At the moment we are very poor unless we get a run on. If things aren't going our way we capitulate. If we string goals together and get confidence up we are very good but that has only happened sporadically this year.

2. FITNESS. I think we are very unfit. This has been a worry for me over the past few weeks. The sign is that opposition sides completely outrun us and their spread destroys us. They also look stronger. When Port got the ball it was like a training drill, they just ran to space and got uncontested possessions. You just have to think we are not fit enough. Now to be honest I'm not surprised because there is a feeling that the side just expected to improve and I think other teams have worked harder over the off-season.

3. CONNECTION. We lack connection and run. It is actually unbelievable how poorly we move the ball now, we have no run and connection at all and just seem to make it up as we go. There is no link, there is no running to space. Unfortunately we've gone from being a very good side to watch to being awful to watch, I don't really know why but that's what it is.

4. POSITIONS. Ok I'm going to go on a little rant here but WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU START BATTLE FORWARD???? Did we actually bring in Joyce to take Battle's position in the backline?? I'm sorry but that was just idiotic, Joyce is clearly not up to the level and Battle just had another nothing game to add to his stack of nothing games for the club while sampled all over the park. Then you have Sinclair stinking it up in the backline, Carlisle looking lost, Clark under all sorts back when he looked good as a mid earlier. The team is so low on confidence that it's hard to know how long the piece of string is but the set up is just a MESS!

5. CONFIDENCE. It's the only thing that can help us from here. How do we get it back? How do we start to play better, like we know we can? That is the challenge to these coaches now, they have stuffed it early I don't think there's any doubt about that, but it is a long season and we need to start getting this team back to some semblance of watchable otherwise we will all just switch off. Oh, and also...

6. FIXTURE. Yes we have been f’ed with the fixture this year. We finish 5th, kind of by fluke and get the hardest fixture in the league. We have had a very tough run so far. But, we play Hawthorn at home next week off the same break. There is no excuse. It is absolutely must win.

So summarising that = We suck at everything

 

[Munga]

I'd have Riewoldt as head/forward coach in a heartbeat. I don't care about coaching experience, he knows how to get the best out of players and work as an effective team. He would demand excellence and let them know where to improve. Dal Santo as midfield coach. Montagna defence coach. Ryder as playing ruck coach. I don't give a flying f*ck how unconventional it is.

 

[stfan]

Love how you’re looking for a positive! Good on you.

Yes, jut like relieving our glory years of 2009 and 2010 with back to back wins in the Grand Final Sprint.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Uh, I’d say it’s shining through alright. Honestly, this presser is alarming.
Taken at his word, he doesn’t see losing the uncontested ball by so much as an issue because we had the same amount of inside 50’s.
This could just be a deflection from a man/team under fire, but it could also be the real mindset. Which is deadset dogshit.

 

[Sainter3and7]

Lots of bad factors coming into play:
* our style of play hasn't been as effective as it was last year because of the rule changes (longer quarters, less rotations, reduced list sizes, introduction of the stand the mark rule). The fast paced game plan we played last year can't be replicated in this new era, it seems, as effectively as it was... and we haven't adjusted.
* the draw hasn't helped;
* injuries have haramed us, as has Paddy's absence;
* our forward 50 entries are far less successful than they were last year. A lot of us expected King to be dominating games from the forward line, but that's not happening (at least yet). Not winning us matches the way some people expected.
* we are losing the clearances and that is hurting us badly. Maybe cause of Ryder and RoMa's absences... but we're not competitive.
* we have one elite player this year, I'd say, and that's just not enough... and (obviously) we don't have anyone who has stepped up as a match-winner
* We stacked up on older, mature players which had an immediate benefit last year but all older players run a higher risk of inury and faster drop-offs in form as they slow down etc
* our trades have been poor (Hanners, Hill) relative to the price we paid and our recruitment has also underperformed (as others said... Petracca was tipped to go No.1 the whole year and we picked someone with less talent).
* I'm not sure Ratten can go from hero to zero as quick as some are suggesting, but the coaching staff obviously hasn't responded as it should have to the changes in rules as they could have. I don't think speculation about a coach who got us to finals less than 10 games ago is fair... compare his record to the other coaches directly before him and you can see the improvement.
I'm sure that I have missed a lot of factors, but there sre so many happening at once that it's going to be a long and painful season. Leaves me wondering not just about the mid-season draft but also list management decisions at seasons end. Do we need to scrap the vision of ourselves that last year produced and do a complete rebuild? I dunno. Results will determine how we respond... but it's looking grim.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

I'd have Riewoldt as head/forward coach in a heartbeat. I don't care about coaching experience, he knows how to get the best out of players and work as an effective team. He would demand excellence and let them know where to improve. Dal Santo as midfield coach. Montagna defence coach. Ryder as playing ruck coach. I don't give a flying f*ck how unconventional it is.

Ryder as ruck coach is something we need to lock in. The man’s body might not be holding up as well as some of the other greats but I reckon his tap work is honestly just as good as any of the other top rucks. He easily rivals Nic Nat and Gawn in tap work as well as having the athletic jump of Nic Nat. If he can teach Marshall plus whoever our next ruck is how to do that we’ll be a strong side

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

View attachment 1111851
Uh, I’d say it’s shining through alright. Honestly, this presser is alarming.
Taken at his word, he doesn’t see losing the uncontested ball by so much as an issue because we had the same amount of inside 50’s.
This could just be a deflection from a man/team under fire, but it could also be the real mindset. Which is deadset dogshit.

Ross on camera said that they don’t like short passing. Their gameplan is to kick it long to King and hope he can mark it or get a free kick. If that’s the gameplan it must be what Ratts is telling them to do.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

What do you mean our fast paced game style from last year cant be replicated in this new era?

Everyone else seems to be doing it ok

Problem is that we are currently horrifically stagnant with no one prepared to run and take the game on and take risks

Its either that or its no Paton/Webster & Ryder ...... no St Kilda!!

Roughead breaking Paton's leg started the rot

 

[stfan]

I still have no idea what "get a big dog up you" means. To be honest I'm troubled.

Well I could post a pic, but that would get me banned!

 

[austinnn]

I'd have Riewoldt as head/forward coach in a heartbeat. I don't care about coaching experience, he knows how to get the best out of players and work as an effective team. He would demand excellence and let them know where to improve. Dal Santo as midfield coach. Montagna defence coach. Ryder as playing ruck coach. I don't give a flying f*ck how unconventional it is.

Just what we would have said about Hamill.

 

[Lukesaint13]

Look at what Melbourne did in the off-season. They brought in Mark Williams and Adam Yze to help Simon Goodwin

Simon Goodwin

Age

47

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

20.9

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.5

4star

No current season stats available

D

9.4

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.2

4star

and already they look like a well structured, more disciplined side. Does Ratts need the same? Why don’t we bring back Ross Lyon as an assistant? I know a lot of people hate him but our defence is an absolute shambles right now and we really need a change fast. And while we’re at it, bring back Lenny Hayes

Lenny Hayes

Age

44

Ht

186cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.5

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

11.0

5star

M

3.7

4star

T

5.0

5star

CL

5.2

5star

No current season stats available

D

9.2

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.2

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

0.4

3star

. If I remember correctly, someone said a while ago that he was our most disciplined leader, returning to training shortly after the ‘09 grand final. The players at the moment look like they could use someone like that. Someone who is resilient, a leader, and someone who will push the players to be the best that they can be.

 

[bergholt]

Press conference is illuminating. He basically says he has no idea why things aren’t working except that the players have lost confidence.

 

[austinnn]

No. We kept it.

Now watch us use our next 2 years with of first round draft picks getting Ben King then spend the next 10 years bombing high into I50 and praying for free kicks.

 

[Munga]

Just what we would have said about Hamill.

Not really. I don't recall anyone, ever, recommending Hamill for his tactical nous. Even if he was, it appears to be out of date.

 

[Munga]

Saints need to remember ...It’s not that complicated ....

Maybe Orazio would be interested in coaching? He knows what's going on.

 

[St Kilda Senators]

Well that was just plain awful.

 

[Munga]

There's a lot wrong at the moment all over the place. But the first thing I'd fix is the forward line. Regardless of everything else that's sh*t, we're actually getting a great number of entries (hardly quality!). If we could clear space, block better, f*cking lead to space (the only leads I see are on a path to the opposition!), kick to the fat side, have the bloody crumbers there... we might be more competitive on the scoreboard. We rarely switch when we should, we burn so many open teammates on the fat side. Our forward line and the movement into it is so constipated it hurts. The one bloody quality forward entry this season came from Bytel kicking across the forward line where someone was leading into space! I bet the opposition coaches laugh at how feckin dumb we are.

Forget about putting the blowtorch on players - I'm losing faith in our coaches.

The rot has well and truly set in and it feels like we're on the edge of a full-blown crisis. A loss against either Hawthorn or Gold Coast and we are in big trouble.

Welcome to the club. After the Bombers match I said it won't be long until we're called a rabble. Are we there yet?

We are absolutely sh*t at developing players. We fluke the odd one like Marshall but that's mainly his ability not our development.

None of our players look like they ever put on any muscle or get fitter.
Clark seems to have lost muscle from him draft day.

And Marshall was a mature age pick, debuting at 22. Agree, not our development.

Did anyone see Coffield grab Howard by the scruff of the neck. It was onscreen for a fleeting moment. I believe it was after the goal where Howard tried to take a hanger and gave away the free kick.

Yeah and it was the highlight of the night for me. I assumed it was words of encouragement, but maybe he was giving him a spray. Either way I gave a fist pump because it was good to see some actual leadership!! Howard had one of his better nights too.

 

[austinnn]

Where to start...very random thoughts after another poor night

Behind Kickouts - mind boggling that we are 6 games in and the coaches can't see what we all can with Howard taking them. This more than anything is making me lose faith in Ratts and his off field team as I then start to question everything about their set-up.

2 defenders flying for the ball on nearly every high entry, losing their feet and lost to the contest. This is taught from Auskick so why are they continuously doing it. Lack of trust between everyone I suspect.

Handballing - The players themselves need to take ownership of how poor they are. They seem to take no care of getting it to a team mate in a better position. Just get one off and my job is done attitude. Worse than how bad our kicking is because hand to fist should be an easier skill. Port gave us a lesson in this tonight. They cut the play open so often at the contest where we just couldn't get it done.

Coaches talent identification and being honest to everyone that after 4 years we know a player just isn't going to be part of pushing/pulling a team up the ladder so we will cut our losses. We have plenty in this camp but it's time for some cards to be stamped. Poor discipline in every game for so many years in is a big hint that the player is a liability and not going to make it.

Allowing opposition to control the football by playing some weird zone setup of the whole ground. I'd love to get GPS numbers for running to the 'mark'. I have a feeling we would be streets ahead of the competition. So much expended energy on useless running because of the game plan

One arm touch tackling is getting embarrassing.

How have we recruited such that at a 4 on 4 contest at centre ball ups we struggle so badly each week to get first hands on it time and again? We looked like headless chooks in there even with Roma back. It's an indictment but probably speaks to the fact that when we practice it our best player at it is only ever against someone no good at it. What drills can be improved to get the level up?

I actually don't want glossed over quick fixes now especially with the potential uplift of perhaps a win against the grain. We've been there so many times the structural flaws need addressing and not just with bandaids

So far best analysis of our situation I've seen scrolling backwards to catch up.

My suspicion is things are about to get a lot worse and we'll discover it's not a blip.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

Dunno whether anyone posted this yet but listen around the last half of the interview. Seb talks about how teams have cracked onto our 0-30m scoring plan and that we've been "forced to use short passes, which we don't wanna do". And that late in the 4th quarter we saw some promising signs when "We were able to kick it long and Maxy got some looks at it. Things go another way and he might get a mark or a free kick". This confirms its a coaching directive to bomb it long to Max's head and that short passes are against our game plan

EDIT: 1:10 timestamp

Video

Seb Ross spoke to STK Media following our Round 6 loss to Port Adelaide at Adelaide Oval

www.saints.com.au

That confirms what many have been saying here for weeks:

1. That the opposition is now playing us differently than they were before, as Seb said, not allowing goals from 0-30 metres out and defences dropping deeper to stop those goals happening
2. That football is being played differently this year and we have had to learn how to deal with it.

Due to the fact we had blokes like Rath at the club - whose purpose it was to examine trends in the game and direct our coaches - I thought we’d be one of the teams best placed when it came to making changes to our system when needed if opposition worked us out and/or there were new rules in place.

That we have floundered so badly since clubs started going to school on us when we were winning and since the new rules were adapted is alarming to say the least and an indictment on those in charge of coaching at our club. I hope they are feeling the heat after get another capitulation yesterday instead of everyone tipping on Brad Hill: as disappointing as his form is, Hill is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

This is not a bad list, nor is it unfit. It looks unfit as we are chasing tail all match and opposition are playing keepings off so we can’t create pressure.

It’s simple:

Pressure/effort + reward from tackling/goals and wins + teamwork and faith in a well coached and drilled structure and game plan = happy players and more energy to create even more pressure.

Compared to:

Pressure/effort - reward from tackling, less goals/wins - teamwork and faith in a game plan and structure = physically and mentally fatigued players that struggle to maintain consistent effort for long and can’t execute skills properly.

We are firmly in the second camp above if you hadn’t worked that out from watching us.

Unfortunately, we are in a really bad place right now and the players need help and guidance to get out of it.

If the likes of Rath and Danny Sexton can’t feed Ratts with info that gives him the tools to get through this then what is the point of them? Get them off our books and get someone in that can help Ratten and this list because, like it or not, we are stuck with both Ratts and the majority of this list for a while. This is no quick fix, this is a systematic, club-wide issue.

I’m as alarmed as anyone that we’ve fallen off a cliff this year but it can be turned around.

 

[Mowman]

I’m as alarmed as anyone that we’ve fallen off a cliff this year but it can be turned around.

I can't agree, its not getting turned around this year something is rotten to the core
Our list has been found out and our coaching has been found out as well
We will win a few a games against some poor sides but it will only be covering over the cracks

 

[hayes]

That went through my head during the game. After showing promise the previous year, it felt like groundhog day week after week when we were down 51-20 early in the second quarter.

It went through my head during the Essendon game. Not sure what it is about Easter but jeez we can really drop the ball during those four days.

We aren’t just losing we’re getting absolutely obliterated. This season is over, need to get time into Bytel, Byrnes, Highmore and whoever we draft in the mid season draft.