Autopsy Round 6, 2024: St Kilda v Western Bulldogs

[Jade Buddha]

Before we start talking about the bottom falling out it's worth remembering this is Lyon's first blow-out since coming back. Most sides will have them. For example GWS and Brisbane both had 10-goal losses last year.

The thing that hurt in recent times was the consecutive spankings. That's when you know you're in trouble.

So it’s about how we answer the questions

 

[thekizzler]

Sharman needs space to operate in the F50, which with our current set up he rarely has. Thats not his fault most talls would be the same, but I cant see him improving in the current team. He is being flicked around because his form in the F50 has been non existent, thats a coach trying to get a player into the game.

There is other issues in his game as well.

Watching him on Thursday night and his footy smarts when it came to defending Bulldogs rebounds was non-existent. He was just running around in circles and had no idea where to go. Can put it down to two things. Either he can't do it or can't be f***ed.

Now this also comes down to leadership in the forward line, which is non-existent. Players like Butler, Owens aren't too much better at the moment. Strangely, Higgins has improved out of sight in this area. But Sharman and Butler aren't offering anything attacking wise either. Higgins is and Owens has been okay in this area.

All this translates to the ball coming out of the forward line too easily and our mids, defence under pressure.

Also, Sharman is hardly ever going to get space in the forward 50. But you look at similar sized forwards such Bailey Fritsch and Kyle Langford (who we dream Sharman becomes like), and they are constantly leading and presenting to the ball regardless of space available. I can't recall Sharman taking a mark on the lead inside 50 this season. It's probably happened but I can't recall it. All he wants to do is to jump into packs from the side and mark....or try to take a hanger.

With Sharman it's one of two cases, either he just doesn't have what it takes or he isn't working hard enough.

I hope it's the second case but I feel the first is more likely at this stage.

 

[beside the seaside]

So it’s about how we answer the questions

Next week feels pretty important. If we get absolutely flogged again the confidence will take a big hit. The players probably need to prove to themselves as much as the fans that they are better than Thursday night.

 

[Remboy]

Before we start talking about the bottom falling out it's worth remembering this is Lyon's first blow-out since coming back. Most sides will have them. For example GWS and Brisbane both had 10-goal losses last year.

The thing that hurt in recent times was the consecutive spankings. That's when you know you're in trouble.

Thursday was totally unacceptable. It will be interesting to see the response this week. Consecutive six and five day breaks with two interstate trips maybe contributed.
We've got an eight day break this week, with (surprise surprise) another interstate trip. This week will tell a bit about where this group are at.

 

[gringo2011]

Agree but not sure of Harves role. Think he’s great to have on board but maybe as a mentor more than forward coach.

Said it at the time. I wanted best available not old boys but think that Harves must be a pretty fair assistant coach to have lasted as long as he has in some good set ups. A lot of assistants and line coaches coach outside of the position that they played in. He'll be running training drills and skills and craft would be given off to a specialist coach hopefully.

To me a big part of the issue with our forward line is structural. Membrey, King, Coops, Snags, Butler, Owens, Phillipou/ Byrnes. It's very slow and stodgy. Not much pressure game and too tall. Most sides run two specialist pressure forwards and a couple of tall spillers. We seem to be too tall in the mid sized players and too short in the talls with not enough smalls.

 

[Miha]

Before we start talking about the bottom falling out it's worth remembering this is Lyon's first blow-out since coming back. Most sides will have them. For example GWS and Brisbane both had 10-goal losses last year.

The thing that hurt in recent times was the consecutive spankings. That's when you know you're in trouble.

Yep, hence why coming up against this Port side is worst timing possible. We’re capable of making this a contest, need to pull the finger out

 

[kernelT]

Year 3 is next year mate.

I’m saying Ross won’t be under pressure from the board next year.

It will all come to ahead in year 4 (2026)

He'll be under pressure in a week if we see a similar effort against port. 4 years is a pipe dream on current form.

Spend a few days and go watch Ross training these boys and come back here and tell the rest of us that he hasn’t created an environment that will develop this list.

I was there most weeks during covid and watched Ratten coach. I’ve been there for Richo.

Under Ross. It’s not even night day. It’s solar systems apart.

Weird deflection telling people to go watch training, I couldn't GAF how they train nor am I interested in spending hours watching handball drills, proof is in the pudding - actual performances.
Solar systems apart FMD that is proper KoolAid hyperbole. Do you watch the other 17 clubs train? That's probably more relevant than comparing our string of failed coaches. We've had one of the longest injury lists in the comp since Lyon took over, so maybe we haven't got the loading balance right. We looked in great nick for the first couple of months last year, have been really average since.

he reports to the president. Who has been vocal that there are checks and balances.

What are the checks and balances? Unless the specifics are available that's just more corporate drivel.

 

[Saint Watto]

Weird deflection telling people to go watch training, I couldn't GAF how they train nor am I interested in spending hours watching handball drills, proof is in the pudding - actual performances.

Spot on there kernetT.

As many of us track watchers have said....they looked great on the track pre season.

Outstanding actually.

I use the term "the heat of the battle" for how the actual matchday performance/results pan out.

The old saying of you play how you train doesn't automatically follow......unforunately.

 

[littlecreatures]

Have a look at what Richo and Ratts had available and it's chalk and cheese. Stuv, Seb Ross, Bruce, Roberton and Membrey were our guns back in Richos days and Acres, Billings, Newnes and Lonie were about to fire up. Ratts got a few older GOPs to add to his pile but really nothing much there. We have a bunch of A graders now, none have become elite but the top end and depth are both miles ahead of what they were. Injury gets him a bit of leeway but it ran out for Ratts too.

And you might be right here, to an extent, but it’s still remiss to say this is a top 4-6 list. It clearly isn’t and lacks depth. Seperate issue whether it’s better than the lists Ratt and Cho had, and to be frank, it’s irrelevant whether it is. Greater importance is whether it’s a good enough list to get us a flag (clearly not).

 

[kernelT]

Yep, hence why coming up against this Port side is worst timing possible. We’re capable of making this a contest, need to pull the finger out

Trying is free, we had an 18 YO, 1 gamer looking the most interested…

 

[saintmike65]

Definitely perplexing.

They have been very protective about his midfield minutes at training too.

saintmike65 Saint Watto tony74 anything to elaborate seeing as you 3 live down there.

I dare say Mitch will train with the mids pre season..he’s been needed up forward also but is capable of being a fine 2 position player, which the likes of Ross, Crouch, Steele, Jones & Dow would all struggle with!
The loss of Wood & Henry plus the unavailability of Dow have really hurt.

 

[saintmike65]

And you might be right here, to an extent, but it’s still remiss to say this is a top 4-6 list. It clearly isn’t and lacks depth. Seperate issue whether it’s better than the lists Ratt and Cho had, and to be frank, it’s irrelevant whether it is. Greater importance is whether it’s a good enough list to get us a flag (clearly not).

Our list is a work in progress & has some obvious holes..10-12 years of sub standard drafting have hurt enormously!

 

[gringo2011]

And you might be right here, to an extent, but it’s still remiss to say this is a top 4-6 list. It clearly isn’t and lacks depth. Seperate issue whether it’s better than the lists Ratt and Cho had, and to be frank, it’s irrelevant whether it is. Greater importance is whether it’s a good enough list to get us a flag (clearly not).

I think we are a 5th to 12th sort of list. Playing somewhere in that range is where we sit. Overachieving would be top 4 under performing would be outside of that range. At the moment we are heading for bottom 4.

 

[Saint Shags]

Before we start talking about the bottom falling out it's worth remembering this is Lyon's first blow-out since coming back. Most sides will have them. For example GWS and Brisbane both had 10-goal losses last year.

The thing that hurt in recent times was the consecutive spankings. That's when you know you're in trouble.

By all means the bottom hasn't fallen out. But I do think there have been warning signs that have been papered over due to circumstances.

 

[bergholt]

I think we are a 5th to 12th sort of list. Playing somewhere in that range is where we sit. Overachieving would be top 4 under performing would be outside of that range. At the moment we are heading for bottom 4.

Yeah but looks to me like this will be the worst period of the season - injuries, hard fixture, etc. I doubt we end up lower than 12th.

 

[malevu]

Had two days to calm down after that pathetic performance on Thursday. I'm long past giving up excuses for the team letting us down but for the time being I'll try to be positive.

I can't imagine a performance like that with all of King, Crouch, Wood, Henry, Clark, Dow, Howard and Webster in the line up. Throw in Hayes as ruck back up and give Keeler a go and the team is 50 percent different to what we fielded on Thursday. And hopefully much better.

Young guns like Owens, Nas, Windhager, Phillipou, Wilson can go back to being the cream on the cake rather than having the weekly pressure of being the main ingredients.

The trouble is when, if ever, are we going to have a full list. Round 20?

For the record I think Butler's days may be numbered. He seems to becoming more injury prone and when fit I think he's still a border line selection. Higgins and Henry are now the obvious first choices as small forwards.

 

[Kennedy84]

He's 19 years old and getting put into situations that the likes of Sheezel and Daicos were never put into. He played an entire season more or less as a key forward at 18 years old and was the youngest draftee in his year, bit early to be writing him off?

I think he does some nice things in traffic doesn't spend it too early. I just hope he works on his acceleration and speed, but that can pretty hard after your teenage years.

 

[The Cobra]

Spot on there kernetT.

As many of us track watchers have said....they looked great on the track pre season.

Outstanding actually.

I use the term "the heat of the battle" for how the actual matchday performance/results pan out.

The old saying of you play how you train doesn't automatically follow......unforunately.

True but I can guarantee you that if they can’t execute any skill at training at a high level you will never see it in a match.

 

[PandaG]

Agree but not sure of Harves role. Think he’s great to have on board but maybe as a mentor more than forward coach.

I have heard Harvey may retire end of year
Thinking Nick R might be a nice addition..?

 

[PandaG]

For me top 8 or bottom 4
Anywhere in between does not help future seasons.
Bottom 4, get the next H Reid then 2025-26 looks much different.
Everyone is playing second to the elite list GC are building.

 

[littlecreatures]

I have heard Harvey may retire end of year
Thinking Nick R might be a nice addition..?

Enright has got the backline humming before RTB arrived, so I just wonder whether we need a senior assistant with an attacking nous that can get that side of things moving.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Saintbloke]

I dare say Mitch will train with the mids pre season..he’s been needed up forward also but is capable of being a fine 2 position player, which the likes of Ross, Crouch, Steele, Jones & Dow would all struggle with!
The loss of Wood & Henry plus the unavailability of Dow have really hurt.

Like Pou, Mitch is not a midfielder- if anything I would get him into the backline and play as a more straight ahead line breaker.

 

[Saintsydney]

Watching Port Adelaide- easily beating Collingwood

Most of their goals we would have missed - it would be a well battled contest that we would probably be just losing - Port winning by 29 points

Their forwards kick drop punts from set shots on acute angles
They don’t spin the ball around as they are walking in - they line the ball with the middle of the goals - walk in straight and kick truly
Can we get their goal kicking coach ?
We won’t be any good until we can kick goals from set shots
Learn how to kick straight with drop punts - it’s not rocket science

 

[Diehard Saint]

I have heard Harvey may retire end of year
Thinking Nick R might be a nice addition..?

No.
Never shown any inclination to coach.

 

[BrutThough]

I have heard Harvey may retire end of year
Thinking Nick R might be a nice addition..?

If Harvey does leave, we need someone with no affiliation to Ross previously. Let's get some new ideas and different perspectives into the box.