Autopsy Round 7, 2019: GWS v St.Kilda

[CaptainRisky]

As iv said in the past , lets not hold too much weight in beating the bombers or the demons , we got them at the right time

Opps , ps , thats half the problem , because we did beat those two a lot think we are better than we really are , we have a crap load of work to do before we are going to worry decent sides

 

[bergholt]

Clark is sooo far off AFL standard it ain’t a laughing matter anymore.

There is simply no point in him coming in for at least another month, regardless of VFL form. He needs to work on his mental toughness at AFL level through a physiologist and not just “hope” he finds his way at the top level.

It’s very complex with that boy methinks......

I don't think it's complex at all. He clearly hasn't got the tank for AFL right now, and probably also doesn't fully understand the workrate required.

He reminds me of Joey in the early years. Clearly has the skills but doesn't know how to do the work. It was Joey's sixth year on the list when the penny really dropped. Could easily take Clark the same timeframe, unfortunately.

 

[pebblesofsand]

the age demographic wasn't the reason we couldn't match it. we couldn't match it because the outcome from our rebuild is utter ****. it hasn't produced one genuine inside mid. not one. we are literally the worst draft and developer of midfield talent in the league.

the midfield did not have one player with under 20 games unless you want to count clark... but teams run kids through there all the time and have no issues. Freo did it 2 weeks ago with brayshaw.

the midfield we went in with is mature and experienced. its age demographic is good enough to get the job done. but it got absolutely smashed which meant the demographic in others areas means little.

but here we are making excuses. its pathetic!

there's always an excuse for this club. seriously! when we are going to stop making excuses for what has been 2 rebuilds and 9 seasons.

the result simply isn't good enough for the amount of time everyone has waited.

why do we still have 9 players with under 20 games this long into the rebuild?

Yeah great point - well thought out!!!!

ST KILDA

Player Injury Estimated Return
Logan Austin Shoulder Indefinite
Jack Bytel Back Season
Jake Carlisle Back Indefinite
Oscar Clavarino Ankle 1-2 weeks
Jarryn Geary Quad Indefinite
Dan Hannebery Hamstring/calves Indefinite
Max King Knee 1-2 weeks
Jack Lonie Knee 8-10 weeks
Paddy McCartin Concussion Indefinite
Lewis Pierce Concussion Test
Dylan Roberton Heart Season

 

[pebblesofsand]

If Naughton doesn't stop looking like peak Carey I'm going to spew, 9 contested marks 5 goals and still just dominating.

and yet up till last nights game he averaging less of everything than Bruce.

I reckon half the posters on here must have been little buggers when they were kids - any shiny new object one of their mates have - they automatically want and Mummy and daddy are terrible for not getting them one

 

[Tigerssaints]

the age demographic wasn't the reason we couldn't match it. we couldn't match it because the outcome from our rebuild is utter ****. it hasn't produced one genuine inside mid. not one. we are literally the worst draft and developer of midfield talent in the league.

the midfield did not have one player with under 20 games unless you want to count clark... but teams run kids through there all the time and have no issues. Freo did it 2 weeks ago with brayshaw.

the midfield we went in with is mature and experienced. its age demographic is good enough to get the job done. but it got absolutely smashed which meant the demographic in others areas means little.

but here we are making excuses. its pathetic!

there's always an excuse for this club. seriously! when we are going to stop making excuses for what has been 2 rebuilds and 9 seasons.

the result simply isn't good enough for the amount of time everyone has waited.

why do we still have 9 players with under 20 games this long into the rebuild?

spot on about re build Once they mention the R word it gives the whole off/ on field
an excuse to under achieve . why not use
WE ARE IN THE PREMIERSHIP WINDOW

 

[pebblesofsand]

There were times today when Gresh, Sincs, Ross, Newnes and Steele today were in space on the run and just blazed it as long as they could and not even to advantage. If it was golf, its kind of like we think we are on the driving range seeing who can hit it the furthest instead of trying to get it in the hole

Ahh you've watched me play golf!!!!

 

[CaptainRisky]

I don't think it's complex at all. He clearly hasn't got the tank for AFL right now, and probably also doesn't fully understand the workrate required.

He reminds me of Joey in the early years. Clearly has the skills but doesn't know how to do the work. It was Joey's sixth year on the list when the penny really dropped. Could easily take Clark the same timeframe, unfortunately.

There lies the problem , we take six years to get the most out of a player and other clubs do it in half that time

 

[CaptainRisky]

and yet up till last nights game he averaging less of everything than Bruce.

I reckon half the posters on here must have been little buggers when they were kids - any shiny new object one of their mates have - they automatically want and Mummy and daddy are terrible for not getting them one

So your going to compare Naughton to Bruce , ones in his second season and the other has been in the system what 7-8 years ? Lets face it , we would love Naughton at our club

 

[bergholt]

Yeah great point - well thought out!!!!

ST KILDA

Player Injury Estimated Return
Logan Austin Shoulder Indefinite
Jack Bytel Back Season
Jake Carlisle Back Indefinite
Oscar Clavarino Ankle 1-2 weeks
Jarryn Geary Quad Indefinite
Dan Hannebery Hamstring/calves Indefinite
Max King Knee 1-2 weeks
Jack Lonie Knee 8-10 weeks
Paddy McCartin Concussion Indefinite
Lewis Pierce Concussion Test
Dylan Roberton Heart Season

I think your point is that we have lots of injuries and that's why we're playing inexperienced guys? Not sure that holds up.

Here's the games played of those injured players:

Bytel: 0
Clavarino: 0
King: 0
Pierce: 5
Austin: 20
McCartin: 35
Lonie: 56
Carlisle: 124
Roberton: 128
Geary: 187
Hannebery: 208

Half of those are inexperienced guys too. Yes, we clearly miss the last four or five. But every club has a few hundred gamers missing with injuries.

 

[Sully111]

For those making excuses... name the elite ball users on our list.

 

[pebblesofsand]

So your going to compare Naughton to Bruce , ones in his second season and the other has been in the system what 7-8 years ? Lets face it , we would love Naughton at our club

No I was comparing the "love" for Naughton to his actual forward line outputs.

Up to last nights game 6 goals in 6 games - less than Bruce same as McCartin's output last year. Hardly spectacular - he may turn out to be a an absolute gun but I'm sorry I don't get excited by single game efforts - don't you remember that once Billings kicked 5 goals in a game and Blake Acres actually got 30 possessions in a game!!!!

Like I said - shiny objects.

 

[cooperrules]

For those making excuses... name the elite ball users on our list.

Hind

 

[saintspremiers]

I thought in the first 5 games we looked to have an identifiable brand of footy. We looked tight down back. Methodical when moving the footy.

Last week we were back to an unrecognisable brand however I attributed that mainly to being a rotation down, Bruce cooked & adjusting to Gears out.

Today, we were back to 2018 levels. The players tried & dug in but it was messy. We didn’t switch or retain the footy playing it safe when we needed to. We got the footy, banged it on the boot as soon as we got possession & treated the ball like it was a hot potato.

Perhaps the injuries have caught up with us but one things for sure, we are back to playing a type of football where I cannot understand wtf we are trying to do other than bang it in the general direction of our goals.

I bloody hope we can get back to playing how we did in the first 5 rounds otherwise we’ll be 4-5 & up against Carlton who will see us as an easy kill.

I think I’ll leave the universe if all that happens.

Must. Beat. Carlton FFS!

But you are right.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Wow - imagine what this board would be like if we were North, Carlton or Sydney fans

 

[saintspremiers]

Indeed!

If we had her ( Winx ) She would still be getting knocked up by horny stallions
After being retired at 3 due to shin soreness!

Lucky we have Winx for 4 years already so there will be zero trade value by then!

 

[gringo2011]

Richo is a simpleton that hasn't taken us to finals and he is one of our longest serving coaches.

Sheldon, Alves and GT took us to finals and got sacked.

We accept mediocrity and embrace failure.

We get what we deserve.

He just doesn't have the list to do much still. Billings is the closest thing to a star we have ATM. Stuv was for years, Stuv goes out attention goes to Billings and Gresham. There is no one under them that can do much. Our midfield would be the worst nearly in history at the moment. We are a bottom 4 quality list that works our arses off and trips up lazy sides thinking they are out for an easy kill. We may play finals this year still but until we address the midfield we are going to be hardworking labourers. Hanners needs to get back to his form from 4 years ago just to off set the loss of Stuv.

 

[gringo2011]

I think a few are going a bit over the top calling our re-build a failure based on one week.

I've watched the Giants the last 3 weeks. They've beaten the Cats on the road, smashed Sydney and lost to Freo. Their loss to Freo was pretty much down to one Nat Fyfe dominating them. But Freo kicked ridiculously straight when they got on top, and if you don't do that against this Giants team, they'll make you pay.

We had a horrible list of outs coming into this. But you know what? We actually controlled a lot of the first quarter before they got a run on. We edged the second quarter and smashed them in the 3rd everywhere but on the scoreboard.

The problem with the above and why we didn't win the game or get closer is we were dreadful with our conversion and disposal under pressure. And, on top of the cruel list of outs, we carried too many passengers. Billings, Gresham and Acres got the plaudits after the Melbourne win but are seeing how tough it is to back stuff up week-in-week-out in this league. At the moment, our team can't carry those three being down.

An additional thing is because we faced a really good team they worked hard to pressure our entries into forward 50 and got us bombing long. But the problem to me hasn't been the bombing necessarily, it is that Bruce in the past 2 weeks has not been splitting packs and halving contests anymore. He's our most important player structurally.

They also did what the Crows did and isolated our inexperienced backline. This to me is a worry and I hope the coaches start working overtime on this because all the teams will follow the lead of the Crows and Giants if we don't address this.

As a supporter group, we have to stop judging our re-build on the back of one or two results. Otherwise, after the Melbourne game we think our work is done, or after this game we think "we're screwed".

What we are searching for as an inexperienced team is a level of CONSISTENCY one week to the next and today was a step forward in some ways and a step back in other ways.

GWS are a likely top 4 team at home, this was ALWAYS going to be a long shot to actually win. I mean, it was a VERY similar game to Port last night against the Pies. Does that mean Port are crap? Of course not, just **** happens away against top 4 teams.

Does the above make it any less frustrating? Of course not, but let's see how we go against the two Grand Finalists in the next couple of weeks as I think we got a great preparation match today on what we will need to do better against the Eagles next week.

Absolutely, but you look at GWS and their reserve side looks like it has the kind of quality our best list lacks. To me it's a stark reality check. Hopper and Taranto are 30 plus per week mids and they are their developing youth. They were missing their top end talent and could roll us in a canter. I'm a just a bit dispirited.

 

[gringo2011]

On the back of one game?

They have found another star in Naughton and not just off that game, he's been good all year, he went from playing back to forward and is triple teamed and still wins contest after contest, he's everything we wanted Paddy to be. I need that meme with the guy looking over his shoulder while holding Coffs hand and Naughton walking past. It's eerily similar to how Bont was compared to Billings, at least 5 years after we drafted him we can actually see he wasn't such a bad pick up. Please don't let us have to wait 5 years for King...well please at least make him more than a GOP for a start...that's for the footy gods, not you.

They look like they have drafted quality again, they suit the MCG where they can spread and run, they seem to have built up a good young list again. Their game style was really attractive and free flowing, the Saints have to scrap like street urchins over a discarded sandwich for every possession.

 

[PoppedCorn]

Legit. Long is down on form. Acres is the most hyped played this century. It's now at Tom ledger levels of ********ery.

lol
Yeah, righto
Acres at ledger level
Ive heard it all now

 

[gringo2011]

I'd like us to try Dunstan in the run with/lock down for a few weeks and release Steele to just be a gun midfielder on his own.
We don't have enough depth for Steele to be worrying about an opponent. Let's make teams start to worry about him.

Dunny would literally blow up like a balloon and pop. He can hardly run out a game as is. Steele is actually pretty poor without an opponent, he seems to get a bit lost but minding players drags him to the ball. We need Hanners back playing and to get a long term injury to access the mid season draft and pick up a high possession inside mid.

 

[Diehard Saint]

They have found another star in Naughton and not just off that game, he's been good all year, he went from playing back to forward and is triple teamed and still wins contest after contest, he's everything we wanted Paddy to be. I need that meme with the guy looking over his shoulder while holding Coffs hand and Naughton walking past. It's eerily similar to how Bont was compared to Billings, at least 5 years after we drafted him we can actually see he wasn't such a bad pick up. Please don't let us have to wait 5 years for King...well please at least make him more than a GOP for a start...that's for the footy gods, not you.

They look like they have drafted quality again, they suit the MCG where they can spread and run, they seem to have built up a good young list again. Their game style was really attractive and free flowing, the Saints have to scrap like street urchins over a discarded sandwich for every possession.

I know you are talking forward line, but how about that kid we drafted late who has done the opposite, gone from forward to backline and is becoming a star there?

Is the backline not as important then, or as sexy, because Battle appears to be becoming a very, very good player there? Got to look at those positives for us too.

 

[gringo2011]

Billings and Gresham... Both overrated... LONIE shits on both of them.

On TRT-LX2 using BigFooty.com mobile app

I tell you what, he's missed, he's a tempo setter and goes harder than just about any other player on the list. Billings still seems to coast along a lot, he's gotten better at winning contested ball this year but he's very bruise free. Gresham looks less outstanding since moving from the forward line.

 

[gringo2011]

Clark is sooo far off AFL standard it ain’t a laughing matter anymore.

There is simply no point in him coming in for at least another month, regardless of VFL form. He needs to work on his mental toughness at AFL level through a physiologist and not just “hope” he finds his way at the top level.

It’s very complex with that boy methinks......needs the good ol fashion big ressies stint ala what the Hawks sometimes do with their players developing in the Box Hill Hawks.


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Just looks heavy legged to me, seems to look tired before he plays. I think his tank is still a way off. He didn't look slow in TAC. He did a couple of clever things at least yesterday so has some promise.

 

[gringo2011]

I know you are talking forward line, but how about that kid we drafted late who has done the opposite, gone from forward to backline and is becoming a star there?

Is the backline not as important then, or as sexy, because Battle appears to be becoming a very, very good player there? Got to look at those positives for us too.

Battle is awesome and has done incredibly well but Naughton literally looks like a once in a generation forward. He looked Carey like. Battle looks like he could be anything but it's like comparing apples and oranges still. Backs don't get the attention forwards or mids get and are measured differently.

 

[gringo2011]

and yet up till last nights game he averaging less of everything than Bruce.

I reckon half the posters on here must have been little buggers when they were kids - any shiny new object one of their mates have - they automatically want and Mummy and daddy are terrible for not getting them one

I have watched a few Dogs games this year and you could see he was building up to be something special, it's not on one game. Even in our JLT against them he was their only decent marking target and at 18 or what ever is just doesn't seem phased. If King has a game like that as early as him I think I'll jizz myself.