Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[captain cotch 9]

The prosecution didn't explain it to me either. I'm no wiser than when this case first started about how the two deaths came about from the prosecutions point of view.
If RH's finger was on the trigger when the gun went off and killed CC then I can't even see GL being done for manslaughter. I heard nothing from the prosecution about how RH died - knife or gunshot so they didn't prove anything in regards to manslaughter there either.
I would not want that prosecutor to defend me.
I can see GL getting off completely because the prosecution did not prove beyond reasonable doubt that GL's version was all a lie about how the two people died.

Agree.
I cant see how he can be found guilt of murder x 2 and it therefore have been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[MiguelM]

Couldn't agree more. The story is so fictitious it's laughable and yet to me the prosecution didn't try and disprove it. For example the knife. If he wanted the bodies to be found why not show police where the knife is. Prosecution didn't even raise that afaik.
If GL gets off then it's a complete and utter balls up.

Not sure they needed to. You only need to disbelieve some of his evidence to debunk the whole story IMO.

For example, if you don't believe Hill stole the gun, you believe NONE of his story.

 

[MiguelM]

Agree.
I cant see how he can be found guilt of murder x 2 and it therefore have been proven beyond reasonable doubt.

His actions post may be enough to conclude if you do not believe his story.

 

[LeChatNoir]

The thing for me is I think Whilst a reasonable person may initially panic, the follow up of methodically erasing evidence would be too much to bear.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... it just might be a


IMO.

 

[Thats Ambitious]

I also found it strange that Lynn challenged the finding of either the slug or the skull fragment at the site "almost as if it was placed there".

So how could Lynn be so sure that there was no evidence left when cleaning up in the dark?

In a struggle over a firearm, and then a struggle over a knife, how the hell could you stop evidence being spread far and wide?

 

[theouthouse]

They don't need to prove GL version is beyond a reasonable doubt is what happened.

They needed to disprove his credibility as a witness.

It is up to the jury to decide how credible they think GL is. I think the prosecution did a good job of giving GL enough rope and letting him do the rest.

Closing remarks will be very interesting.

 

[GladdyDee]

I also found it strange that Lynn challenged the finding of either the slug or the skull fragment at the site "almost as if it was placed there".

So how could Lynn be so sure that there was no evidence left when cleaning up in the dark?

In a struggle over a firearm, and then a struggle over a knife, how the hell could you stop evidence being spread far and wide?

God complex in full view of the court, IMO

 

[FranklinBluth]

All whilst in bare feet, no did not happen

And at 10 pm... likely very dark... from an experienced hunter... whom you'd had an intense altercation with earlier in the day.
Also he was apparently planning to take the drone footage to the police... as if he needed to take the guys gun too!?! You'd probably leave 'gun confiscation' to the cops, I reckon?

 

[demondavey]

That would be a terrible basis for a not guilty verdict - basically that Hill was such an awful person that he brought it on himself. Surely the jury won't see it that way.

Well no, but him being a campaigner and instigating something might create doubt in the mind of the jury.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Not sure they needed to. You only need to disbelieve some of his evidence to debunk the whole story IMO.

For example, if you don't believe Hill stole the gun, you believe NONE of his story.

Surely you don't just leave a double murder wrap up to the jury to come up with what they think happened.
I would have thought the prosecution has to present that case to the jury along with supporting evidence.
A judge alone has to give written reasons for his verdict and then you can see how the judge arrived at that decision.
I think it's wrong that a jury just has to come back with a simple yes or no answer that they all agreed on.
The example you used about the gun. there's probably little doubt that there was a scuffle over the gun but from what I read the prosecution didn't prove that GL fired it to kill CC, so then why charge him with murder. They didn't even seem to try and explain how RH died, so it should not be left up to the jury to come up with an explanation to agree upon because it wasn't presented to them. Again nothing to do with murder as far as i could see.
There are parts of GL's story both sides agreed upon but I didn't see where the prosecution went to proving the campers were murdered.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

All whilst in bare feet, no did not happen

And in pyjamas. I had been thinking this had all happened just after dinner, at sundown approximately, but if the couple were in night attire they were obviously in bed or about to go so presumably it was quite dark. What brought Hill out must have been the loud music, played by the calm, mature, reasonable, experienced pilot, specifically to annoy them. Maybe a bright light shone towards their camp.

Hill went to the car to turn the music off and things turned ugly from there. We'll never know exactly what happened (even though GL can describe every step, twitch, angle, hand movement - btw, he hasn't shared what was said between them, has he?). Then an elderly couple, barefoot and in pyjamas, are suddenly dead.

 

[LeChatNoir]

"Aren't you trained to be calm and rational?" the prosecutor asked.
"I'm very stressed right now," the accused murderer replied.

Was anyone in court today? What was his demeanour when he said this? Did he look or sound stressed?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Well no, but him being a campaigner and instigating something might create doubt in the mind of the jury.

I think the only doubt should be the whole of GL's fantasy tale. It will be interesting to hear what the judge has to say.

 

[yodellinhank]

The most unbelievable part is Hill stealing the gun and ammo, loading it and shooting a multiple warning rounds in the air? Like really…

Taking a gun alone… I can possibly believe… taking the ammo as well… hmm….. Taking both, loading it and shooting in the air?

Yep. He's concocted a story to account for the number of shots in case police had a witness.

If RH was familiar with the firearm, which seems unlikely, he removes the magazine and fires one shot at most IMO

If RH is unfamiliar with the firearm and chooses to expend the ammo by firing it off, Lynn would've rushed him after the first shot while RH was trying to figure things out. You aren't going to wait until he has worked it out and then make your move when he is firing at will.

 

[FrankGrimes]

The issue is only 3 people really know what went down and 2 of those are dead, the prosecution has a tough job because he did a great job destroying all evidence, it’s a miracle if he walks totally, will be either 2 x manslaughter or 1 x manslaughter and 1 x murder IMO.

 

[nut]

Was Lynn asked if he was drinking alcohol?

 

[independant witness]

Was Lynn asked if he was drinking alcohol?

yes, to which he answered that he hadn't brought any with him.

 

[InagoRaida]

Was anyone in court today? If so what was the general feel?? I don’t notice any mind blowing questions from the persecution….

Hi, i was in for the whole day today, including the post jury legal debates between counsel and the judge. It was packed house.
Im long time lurker in this thread, first time poster today in light of trial. Very appreciative of all debate i've seen here, but especially contribs by Festerz, GreyRanga,Zidane,Angry Crow...who have often had well rrasoned, if differing arguments. EDIT: notwithstanding Kurve's wonderful moderation!
Met some friends of Russell whilst waiting...Melanie and family were in today...more on that later..
Salient points..in my opinion and observation only!
-I was quite surprised how erudite and eloquent his speaking style was. He was calm, measured, considered in all his responses. His cadence and intonation did not indicate stress at all...however, i perceived his tone changed noticeably when discussing the remains, the destruction of and any time he referred to human tissue/matter. Discussed this with lady next to me..we both picked up on it, as did judge, at times asking to repeat those words.
I found his account more compelling and reasoned than i ever had,, despite my strong feeling of his guilt mostly related to his post actions.
But he comes across as possesing high self belief, conviction in his words, and adept at expressing his point concisely. Did much better on the stand than i expected. Not at all presented as 'boofy hunter machismo type'
Dann took him through how he likes humane kill of deer, his absolute fear of losing his ASiC air side clearance for any potential gun breach (re:unsecured), and how he had volunteered the body locations, had offered to be guilty of gun offences and destroying evidence. All calm, was most of the morning. He did not look at Mel once (i had good view of her and him). Tried to portray him as a man with a lot to lose, whom had panicked.
-prosecutor (Prs.) Asked him a lot initially about his gun safety diligence, his clubs, and their strict enforecement of gun safety. Also about how calm and ordered his thinking is ingrained as a pliot in times of duress. He talked about decision tree analysis in critical situations. Seemed Prs. was trying to trap him about being calm and ressonable, yet he claims it was due to panicked state..lynn only slightly ruffled.
-Prs. then pressed Lynn about how Hilll was shot first, Clay murdered as potential witness. Lynn rejected strongly, multiple objections by Dann about line of questioning, given Prs. admit dont know Hill cause of death. Judge agrees with Dann, admonishes Prs.
-lynn admits to selling "black" trailer on gumtree to "earn some cash". But Prs. pulls him up on earlier describing the trailer in the photo as dark blue. He then explained after knowing his route home was known, and a PoI, he painted trailer..for 2 reasons, to get max price for it, and to distance him from the hotham pic. He became a little flustered at this point, Prs was quite strong and very direct in his questioning at this point, doubling back on several points.
Lunch break after Prs. Being instructed to refrain from an alternate narrative in leading questions..Dann stated 'he is not abiding by the rules'. One thing clear, Dann is very formidable defence counsel!!!
-After lunch there was more cross exam. about the guy ropes attached to bullbar of Hill's truck....Lynn was adament he didnt see any, but Prs. persisted with the guy ropes would interfere with the approach of Lynn to grab the gun from Hill at front of Toyota. Also, lots of detailed questions about Hill's hrad torch on or off, and lighting..felt strongly like a trap was coming here, but guy wires were the main take out of this
-very interesting question about the two guns on back seat, two magazines on front seat (rifle he'd been using that day, plus s12g shotgun murder weapon).
Prs. pushed Lynn lots on lighting in Patrol none) but music on doors open. Did Lynn grab shotgun and magazine, and walk away?LynnAgreed. The prosecution zinger was then strong questioning about sizes of magazines vs each gun..two very different sizes/shapes...how did Hill grab the right magazine so quickly in the dark, load it, then walk away so quickly with no lighting? Lynn conceded Hill wearing head torch when deceased and put it trailer, but he couldnt recall if it was on during fight/grabbing shotgun. Prs. put it to him that would be easy to remember if head torch on Hill was shining in to Lynns face...it went back and foryh forcefully at this point. Many in the gallery reacted like this was a bit of a zinger...
- the trailer painting incident was agreed by the Prs. and Dann as being in the same vein as painting Nissan, and included as post event incriminting actions.
-very very interesting and compelling day...IMO i dont belive a lot of what he says, but he is a compelling defedant, with an Awesome KC!
Have to run to my train, will add more later.
Edited: for sausage-finger typos!

 

[InagoRaida]

Was Lynn asked if he was drinking alcohol?

Yes he was, and he did not, nor did he see Hill drinking on 19th nor 20th

 

[FrankGrimes]

Hi, i was in for the whole day today, including the post jury legal debates between counsel and the judge. It was packed house.
Im long time lurker in this thread, first time poster today in light of trial. Very appreciative of all debate i've seen here, but especially contribs by Festerz, GreyRanga,Zidane,Angry Crow...who have often had well rrasoned, if differing arguments.
Met some friends of Russell whilst waiting...Melanie and family were in today...more on that later..
Salient points..in my opinion and observation only!
-I was quite surprised how erudite and eloquent his speaking style was. He was calm, measured, considered in all his responses. His cadence and intonation did not indicate stress at all...however, i perceived his tone changed noticeably when discussing the remains, the destruction of and any time he referred to human tissue/matter. Discussed this with lady next to me..we both picked up on it, as did judge, at times asking to repeat those words.
I found his account more compelling and reasoned than i ever had,, despite my strong feeling of his guilt mostly related to his post actions.
But he comes across as possesing high self belief, conviction in his words, and adept at expressing his pount conciseky. Did much better on the stand than i expected. Not at all presented as 'boofy hunter machismo type'
Dann took him through how he likes humane kill of deer, his absolute fear of losing his ASiC air side clearance for any potential gun breach (re:unsecured), and how he had volunteered the body locations, had offered to be guilty og gun offences and desyroying evidence. All calmy, was most of the morning. He did not look at Mel once (i had good view of her and him). Tried to portray him as a man with a lot to lose, whom had panicked.
-prosecutor (Prs.) Asked him a lot initially about his gun safety diligence, his clubs, and their strict enforecement of gun safety. Also about how calm and ordered his thinking is ingrained as a pliot in times of duress. He talked about decision tree analysis in critical situations. Seemed Prs. Was trying to trap him about being calm and ressonable, yet he claims it was due to panicked state..lynn only slightly ruffled.
-Prs. then oressed Lynn about how Hilll eas shot first, Clay murdered as potential witness. Lynn rejected strongly, mulple objections by Dann about line of questioing, given Prs. admit dont know Hill cause of death. Judge agrees with Dann, admonishes Prs.
-lynn admits to selling "black" trailer on gumtree to "earn some cash". But Prs. pulls him up on earlier describing the trailwr in the photo as dark blue. He then explained after lnowing his route was known, and a PoI, he painted trailer..for 2 reasons, to get max price for it, and to distance him from the hotham pic. He became a little flusterd at this point, Prs was quite strong and very direct in his questioning at this point, doubling back on several points.
Linch break after Prs. Being instructed to refrain from an alternate narrative in leading questions..Dann stated 'he is not abiding by the rules'. One thing clear, Dann is very formidable defence counsel!!!
-After lunch there eas more cross exam about the guy ropes attached to bullbar of Hill's truck....Lynn was adament he didnt see any, but Prs. persisted with the guy ropes would interfere with the approach of Kynn to grab the gun from Hill at front of Toyota. Also, lots of detailed wurstions about Hill's hrad torch on or off, and lighting..felt strongly like a trap was coming here, but guy wires were the main take out of this
-very intesting question about the two guns on back seat, two magazines on front seat (rifle he'd been using that day, plus s12g shotgun murder weapon).
Prs. pushed Lynn lots on lighting in Patrol none) but music on doors open. Did Lynn grab shotgun and magazine, and walk away?LynnAgreed. The prosecution zinger eas thrn strong questioing about sizes of magazines vs each gun..two very different sizes/shapes...how did Hill grab the right magazine so quickly in the dark, load it, then walk away so quickly with no lighting? Lynn conceded Hill wearing hrad torch when deceased and put it trailer, but he couldnt recall if it eas on during fight/grabbing shotgun. Prs. put it to him that would be easy to remember if head torch on Hill was shining in to Lyynns face...it went back and foryh forcefully at this point. Many in the gallery reacted like this was a bit of a zinger...
- the trailer painting incident was agrred by the Prs. and Dann as being in the same vein as painting Nissan, and included as post event incriminting actions.
-very very interesting and compelling day...IMO i dont belive a lot of what he says, but he is a compelling defedant, with an Awesome KC!
Have to run to my train, will add more later.

great summary, head torch could be the zinger he needed just to get it over the line.

 

[utility]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... it just might be a
View attachment 2011922

IMO.

Is that Chief?

 

[MiguelM]

I think the only doubt should be the whole of GL's fantasy tale. It will be interesting to hear what the judge has to say.

This could be telling on the jurior's minds

 

[InagoRaida]

This could be telling on the jurior's minds

Judge was debating possible directions this afternoon...he anticpates ge will be directing Jury next thursday, sending them off for deliberations.
Jury off till tuesday now.
Final summations commence Tues 10:15am. Expected two days by Judge.
I think there will be a lot more debate regarding Jury directions before then....lots of reference to changes in Jury directions act., Dann raised precedents, etc. More to come here

 

[MiguelM]

Off topic, but is there any code of ethics if the defence laywer thinks their client is guilty? do they still try and get them off?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Off topic, but is there any code of ethics if the defence laywer thinks their client is guilty? do they still try and get them off?

Yes, they do the best they can for their client, even if they think he's guilty. In this case getting GL convicted of a manslaughter charge would be considered doing a good job because it got him off murder charges, but getting him off altogether would simply mean the prosecution didn't do a good job. If there was stuff that was irrefutable that led to a conviction then there's nothing much even the best lawyer can do about that.