Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Run n Spread]

How did the prosecution come to the conclusion that Hill was killed first? Seems odd without any evidence

That was a weird take from them.
I guess away to put doubt on the GL story.
Should have just gone with this is all the evidence actions here's why GLs story didn't happen leave it.
By saying RH died first it opens up well you can't prove it and muddies the waters further.
The 3 shots is interesting. If Hill.didnt know how couldn't fire the weapon that would mean GL.chased them.
Maybe the mirror got damaged in a fight perhaps there was a struggle for the gun either one killed and than finishes the other off.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Wow,what a podcast.So much revealed in GL's evidence not reported in the press.I'm now more impressed with Daniel Porceddu for an impressive interrogation.The rope,the rope,it's vital to this case.......

"Give him enough rope and he will hang himself" Charlotte Bronte

 

[Lady O]

It's not about whether the jury believe Lynn's story, it's about whether they believe the Prosecution's story.

There's a lot of talk about Lynn's story being fabricated. It's important to remember that the prosecutions story is fabricated as well.

The Prosecution are alleging a double murder without direct evidence of how (or why) Russell Hill died. It's a bold claim to insist on a double murder in this case.

No, I think you are confused.

Lynn has admitted to burning the camp, destroying the evidence, removing the bodies and going back and burning them so that two people ended up as "fragments" of burned bone.

There are only two inferences you are able to draw from that and it is to believe Lynn's unlikely double accident theory or the more likely double murder theory put forward by the prosecution to account for Lynn's admitted actions following the deaths of the couple.

 

[Run n Spread]

Nobody but GL will ever know that story.

True. And he ain't about to spill.
Jury will have to decide if there is a viable alternative.

 

[Run n Spread]

Yes, as i wrote on Thursday, the prosecution spent a reasonable time (prob 10-12minutes) just questioing him about the guy rope, from a few different aspects. I felt he could tell what Prs. Was trying to do. Hill spoke with conviction, brushing off simply he didnt see the guy wire, it didnt interfere with his passage.
Similarly, the Prs. pressed him about Hill's head torch, and weather it was illuminated in the stuggle. Similarly, he just said he couldnt rembember, but pressed and asked if that would be easy to remember during the struggle, wouldnt it, a bright light shining at you.
IMO it seems Prs. Cast significant doubt on the validity on the struggle story..Lynn alleges he snuck around to front of vehicle, to grab gun, and wrestle with Hill, which he described in minute detail...yet know mention/knowlege of the guy wire, which was in evidence as being their, an an obvious phyiscal obstacle in Lynn's alledged story. Prs. Made point of noting the guy rope was black....
As others have stated, I feel his story has some elements of truth, and some fiction to fit his narrative...the catch IMO is when he can't explain simple little things, that a fabricated story created to fit a narrative couldn't contain, if the events didn't truly unfold as he described.
"The devil is in the detail"
IMO, at least one Murder will be found by Jury, strongly linked to the incriminating conduct post- deaths.

Who's do.you convict him of thou?
If you go one murder 1 ms which is which? If the jury buys the struggle than Ms for CC but murder RH?
If the wire is seen as an obstacle than guilty for CC as her cause of death can be accounted for.

 

[Angry_Crow]

True. And he ain't about to spill.
Jury will have to decide if there is a viable alternative.

I personally believe it’s quite simple.

Nobody would ever do what he did after two accidental deaths. Zero chance.

Therefore the only possible conclusion is he was directly involved with atleast one if not both of their deaths.

The end

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Who's do.you convict him of thou?
If you go one murder 1 ms which is which? If the jury buys the struggle than Ms for CC but murder RH?
If the wire is seen as an obstacle than guilty for CC as her cause of death can be accounted for.

Two manslaughter charges would have been a far better way for the prosecution to proceed.
If the cop in charge of this matter thought it was murder, then how come he wasn't made to give evidence how that conclusion was reached.
As far as I saw the prosecution produced no evidence to suggest to the jury that it was two cases of murder.

 

[Spectrix]

There are only two inferences you are able to draw from that and it is to believe Lynn's unlikely double accident theory or the more likely double murder theory

It's not one or the other. The truth likely lies somewhere in between.
The jury's job is to ascertain whether the prosecution's version is proven beyond reasonable doubt.

I don't believe all elements of Lynn's story, but that is beside the point. Lynn's story is not on trial here. The prosecutions story is on trial, and Lynn's story (while unlikely) is one of many possible alternatives.

IMO the prosecution have not proven that two murders occurred in the way that they allege, when they can't even work out how or why one of those murders occurred.

That doesn't mean that Lynn is innocent, he's clearly not. It means that the prosecution's specific chain of events cannot be proven.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Or maybe they had a shootout, like Gunfight at the OK Corral?

I know you are joking but what about Carol? If it was your partner taking part in violent or aggressive behaviour I’m sure you (not you specifically, any woman) wouldn’t be standing by passively. You’d be shouting at both of them, trying to stop the conflict. She seems to have been forgotten in the story, which has centred on the Hill-Lynn alleged altercation. So we don’t know anything about her part. Has Lynn even been asked?

 

[LeChatNoir]

I know you are joking but what about Carol? If it was your partner taking part in violent or aggressive behaviour I’m sure you (not you specifically, any woman) wouldn’t be standing by passively. You’d be shouting at both of them, trying to stop the conflict. She seems to have been forgotten in the story, which has centred on the Hill-Lynn alleged altercation. So we don’t know anything about her part. Has Lynn even been asked?

Mr Dann said a struggle for the gun then took place, and Ms Clay approached the men and was shouting "Russell, stop it".

In my mind this statement is intended to cast Hill in the role of aggressor, implying that he could have stopped at any time, while Lynn was the victim and powerless.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

KISS

GL was the last to see both RH & CC alive.
GL admitted to disposing & burning of both RH & CC and ridding the scene of any evidence.
GL admitted he wanted to "disappear" but, actually he made both RH & CC disappear.

GL has created a story (Fiction).

DPP and "We" only know the outcome - 2 dead (Fact).

Therefore, he is guilty of their demise IMO - guilty of both crimes.

The End

That’s my thinking too. Greg Lynn plus guns results by whatever means in the deaths of two people. Two accidents is a huge stretch but Lynn is rolling the dice. I reckon not a day has gone by that he hasn’t worked on his “flight plan” , refining it and covering for every possible eventuality the police might consider. Burning the camp, removing and burning the bodies are the things he can’t explain away as accidental so he’s admitted to them, while also saying how bad it made him feel, poor thing. The things a man has to do just to get a fair go

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Mr Dann said a struggle for the gun then took place, and Ms Clay approached the men and was shouting "Russell, stop it".

In my mind this statement is intended to cast Hill in the role of aggressor, implying that he could have stopped at any time, while Lynn was the victim and powerless.

Russell was the person she knew, not Lynn. She would have been worried and scared he’d get hurt.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Russell was the person she knew, not Lynn. She would have been worried and scared he’d get hurt.

So why would she want Russell to stop and possibly let the man she didn't know end up with the gun? Wouldn't she feel safer if Russell ended up with control of the gun?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

So why would she want Russell to stop and possibly let the man she didn't know end up with the gun? Wouldn't she feel safer if Russell ended up with control of the gun?

She would just want the argument to stop and for them both to calm down before someone got hurt. Lynn was never going to let Russell have that gun. (If indeed this altercation occurred.)

 

[Spectrix]

So why would she want Russell to stop and possibly let the man she didn't know end up with the gun? Wouldn't she feel safer if Russell ended up with control of the gun?

She wanted both idiots to stop, but she was only responsible for one of those idiots.

 

[LeChatNoir]

She would just want the argument to stop and for them both to calm down before someone got hurt. Lynn was never going to let Russell have that gun. (If indeed this altercation occurred.)

 

[Lady O]

I know you are joking but what about Carol? If it was your partner taking part in violent or aggressive behaviour I’m sure you (not you specifically, any woman) wouldn’t be standing by passively. You’d be shouting at both of them, trying to stop the conflict. She seems to have been forgotten in the story, which has centred on the Hill-Lynn alleged altercation. So we don’t know anything about her part. Has Lynn even been asked?

A very interesting question. What would I have done?

I thought that Clay was a true "country woman", and had literally been married to a farmer/grazier? Maybe I got that wrong. But if so, she would be familiar with firearms. In the "Olden days", guns and rifles were usually kept on a gun rack in the lounge room. Clips and ammunition separately in case the little kids got hold of one, but not really locked away, maybe in a high kitchen cupboard. If she was a farmer's wife, likely she knew how to load and fire at least one gun (snakes, foxes, etc), so she wouldn't have been as scared of a gun as a modern day suburban Mum.

So, in a situation where my partner and a stranger were struggling over his gun (let me tell you this wouldn't have happened, you don't go to someone's truck and take their gun), I would probably be looking for something to give the aggressive stranger a good tap on the skull from behind. There would be a tomahawk, hammer, tent pole or something similar close handy that could do the job. No way am I going to hide and yell, I'd be right in there.

 

[Run n Spread]

Two manslaughter charges would have been a far better way for the prosecution to proceed.
If the cop in charge of this matter thought it was murder, then how come he wasn't made to give evidence how that conclusion was reached.
As far as I saw the prosecution produced no evidence to suggest to the jury that it was two cases of murder.

No point on their behalf unless they believe the story.
Manslaughter will be instructed as an alternative so may as well go all in and see what sticks

 

[GladdyDee]

That was a weird take from them.
I guess away to put doubt on the GL story.
Should have just gone with this is all the evidence actions here's why GLs story didn't happen leave it.
By saying RH died first it opens up well you can't prove it and muddies the waters further.
The 3 shots is interesting. If Hill.didnt know how couldn't fire the weapon that would mean GL.chased them.
Maybe the mirror got damaged in a fight perhaps there was a struggle for the gun either one killed and than finishes the other off.

If you let cloudy water sit long enough it becomes clear - he’s responsible for two deaths

 

[InagoRaida]

You mean GL spoke with conviction. Edit required.
Sorry to appear to be petty, I really appreciate reading your screeds from the court and your highly atuned observations.
Thank you very much.

Fixed! Thanks Pamcake! I think my phone os so used to typing "Hill", that was the default when i meant he!

 

[Kurve]

Something struck me listening to the Missing Campers Trial podcast, there was a guy rope attached to Hill's bull bar and strung to the toilet. To get past, any of them would have had to duck under it yet Lynn through his ROI, doesn't appear to have factored it in, or not noticed it.

Lynn stumbles a bit in the cross examination over this.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Something struck me listening to the Missing Campers Trial podcast, there was a guy rope attached to Hill's bull bar and strung to the toilet. To get past, any of them would have had to duck under it yet Lynn through his ROI, doesn't appear to have factored it in, or not noticed it.

Lynn stumbles a bit in the cross examination over this.

Yes, there was mention of this, a couple of pages back maybe? He didn’t remember the rope and said it didn’t affect the struggle. In his mind thinking “Damn, there was a rope! How do I fit that into my story?”

 

[InagoRaida]

Accident vs Murder?
If it was indeed an accident, I find it VERY ironic that Lynn destroyed evidence that may have actually proven his story.

This EXACTLY...this was a decent line of questiong by Prs. on thursday afternoon...paraphrasing, if your story was true Mr Lynn, wouldn't you have wanted to leave Mr Hill with the knife on his chest, validating your version of events? Perhaps take phots of the campsite, and drive to police station, or where you cancall police? Wouldn't it have been prudent to leave the site as it was? Lynn replied, when Prs. suggested he should driven out of there and sought police after Hill stole his gun, that he hadn't thought of that till just now when Prs. postulated it.
The Prs. Pressed (poked IMO) him about being trained to think clearly in situations of duress, surely, Mr Lynn, the logical, rational action was to leave the evidence undeserved, to further validate his position.
Purely IMO, i think the point the Prs. was intent on leading was Lynn expended soooooo much energy, thought, stress and worry in the actions he undertook to actually destroy the evidence that could vindicate him, when a reasonable, rational person (as he was trained to be!) person would have stopped and left everything as it occurred.
The Prs. are very strongly promoting his incrimating conduct as pivotal to supporting their version. I think in that aspect, they have made a reasoned and logical walk for the jury to create doubt about truth in Lynn's version.

 

[InagoRaida]

Something struck me listening to the Missing Campers Trial podcast, there was a guy rope attached to Hill's bull bar and strung to the toilet. To get past, any of them would have had to duck under it yet Lynn through his ROI, doesn't appear to have factored it in, or not noticed it.

Lynn stumbles a bit in the cross examination over this.

Yes Prs. stayed on this point for some time...Lynn was a little hesitant, and in a couple of points, paused noticeability (and turned into Mr Mumbly again) to regather his thoughts and composure..not drastically, but noticeable enough compared to the rest of his confident delivery. I wrote about my thoughts in that this morning...the Prs. Did a good job leading him towards that potential trap, IMO.

 

[InagoRaida]

With the Hotham cameras did he take his number plates off?

No, they were blurred in all published images, if i recall.