Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[InagoRaida]

Who's do.you convict him of thou?
If you go one murder 1 ms which is which? If the jury buys the struggle than Ms for CC but murder RH?
If the wire is seen as an obstacle than guilty for CC as her cause of death can be accounted for.

I think manslaughter will be off the table, IMO...

 

[GladdyDee]

This EXACTLY...this was a decent line of questiong by Prs. on thursday afternoon...paraphrasing, if your story was true Mr Lynn, wouldn't you have wanted to leave Mr Hill with the knife on his chest, validating your version of events? Perhaps take phots of the campsite, and drive to police station, or where you cancall police? Wouldn't it have been prudent to leave the site as it was? Lynn replied, when Prs. suggested he should driven out of there and sought police after Hill stole his gun, that he hadn't thought of that till just now when Prs. postulated it.
The Prs. Pressed (poked IMO) him about being trained to think clearly in situations of duress, surely, Mr Lynn, the logical, rational action was to leave the evidence undeserved, to further validate his position.
Purely IMO, i think the point the Prs. was intent on leading was Lynn expended soooooo much energy, thought, stress and worry in the actions he undertook to actually destroy the evidence that could vindicate him, when a reasonable, rational person (as he was trained to be!) person would have stopped and left everything as it occurred.
The Prs. are very strongly promoting his incrimating conduct as pivotal to supporting their version. I think in that aspect, they have made a reasoned and logical walk for the jury to create doubt about truth in Lynn's version.

And took a huge risk IMO of obliterating the evidence before heading off. Could have attracted attention. IMO inconsistent with someone who stated they did everything in a calculated manner to ensure he erased his own involvement as opposed to criminally hiding what happened. Truth is he panicked, and normal reason went out the window. More incriminating IMO

 

[LeChatNoir]

And took a huge risk IMO of obliterating the evidence before heading off. Could have attracted attention. IMO inconsistent with someone who stated they did everything in a calculated manner to ensure he erased his own involvement as opposed to criminally hiding what happened. Truth is he panicked, and normal reason went out the window. More incriminating IMO

Truth is he panicked? Fact is he didn't panic, as demonstrated by his meticulous, and methodically planned and executed cleanup and destruction of evidence of the campsite. Not the actions of a person in a state of panic, imo.

 

[Lady O]

Something struck me listening to the Missing Campers Trial podcast, there was a guy rope attached to Hill's bull bar and strung to the toilet. To get past, any of them would have had to duck under it yet Lynn through his ROI, doesn't appear to have factored it in, or not noticed it.

Lynn stumbles a bit in the cross examination over this.

Yep, just listened to the podcast of his evidence and cross examination and noted a few things. This was the most important one.

Lynn said after Hill took the shotgun from his vehicle, he followed him back to Hill's camp to get the gun back. Hill discharged three shots and Lynn ducked down on the driver's side of the vehicle. He saw Hill coming around from the front, the barrel of the gun was above the bonnet. Asked about the rope between the bullbar and the toilet, he stated he didn't see one. Lynn was asked how he would have wrestled with Hill without noticing this rope and he said Hill must have lifted it up with the barrel of the shotgun, just before he grabbed the barrel and the wrestling began resulting in Hill's finger pulling the trigger and killing clay on the passenger side of the vehicle (after it hit and deflected through the wing mirror).

If you draw yourself a little rectangle, (the Toyota) put Clay on the left, Hill at the top and Lynn on the right, you will see that this couldn't have happened. The shot would have had to have gone through the windscreen to hit her.

 

[LeChatNoir]

Yep, just listened to the podcast of his evidence and cross examination and noted a few things. This was the most important one.

Lynn said after Hill took the shotgun from his vehicle, he followed him back to Hill's camp to get the gun back. Hill discharged three shots and Lynn ducked down on the driver's side of the vehicle. He saw Hill coming around from the front, the barrel of the gun was above the bonnet. Asked about the rope between the bullbar and the toilet, he stated he didn't see one. Lynn was asked how he would have wrestled with Hill without noticing this rope and he said Hill must have lifted it up with the barrel of the shotgun, just before he grabbed the barrel and the wrestling began resulting in Hill's finger pulling the trigger and killing clay on the passenger side of the vehicle (after it hit and deflected through the wing mirror).

If you draw yourself a little rectangle, (the Toyota) put Clay on the left, Hill at the top and Lynn on the right, you will see that this couldn't have happened. The shot would have had to have gone through the windscreen to hit her.

I've role played this part over and over and over with my partner to try and make it work the way Lynn said it happened. We failed. My partner told me if we were in a cartoon it might happen the way Lynn said.

 

[Awakening]

I've role played this part over and over and over with my partner to try and make it work the way Lynn said it happened. We failed. My partner told me if we were in a cartoon it might happen the way Lynn said.

That’s some date night

 

[Lady O]

I've role played this part over and over and over with my partner to try and make it work the way Lynn said it happened. We failed. My partner told me if we were in a cartoon it might happen the way Lynn said.

The only way it could have happened without seeing the rope, was that he came around the back of the toilet to the passenger side front of the Toyota and wrestled there. But he definitely said he approached their camp from the side and ducked down on the driver's side when Hill saw him and discharged three shots. Damn, forgot to tick that box!!

 

[Underarrest_]

Well put @GreyRanga! As someone who used to frequently endure the "high viz Grand Prix" that is the Ring Road and M1 in the morning commute, I totally concur with your P plater in a ute analogy!!!!

Also, as a result of his after death conduct, there isn't much hard evidence for Prs. to lead.
However, this allowance into evidence of this incriminating conduct, IMO, will be significant in the jury's decision of whether it is beyond reasonable doubt.
----------
Just another interest, i asked a few pages back...i thought you GreyRanga, or someone, would have a bit of an idea of what Dann's typical fee would for such a case..25-30k/ day? Plus junior counsel/assistants? Certainly not an inconsiderate sum of money.
----------
It leads me to think if convicted, and the family house had been put up as collateral for Mr Dann's fees, maybe Mrs. Lynn might cut and run...this would be significant burden on family finances....and her standing in the community, IMO.

If GL’s wife’s smart she’ll cut and run in more ways than one... IMO.

 

[GardenGnome]

What I found to be c0cky, among many things, was GL comment along the lines of .”I think you’ll find that ticks every box”

To me, it definitely reeks of the notion “I’ve worked so hard to concoct this story… I’ve thought of everything… therefore I get full marks and a leave pass/get out of jail free card”

He’d be absolutely kicking himself for the CC skull/slug left at the campsite and RH phone Hotham camera!

He’s really covered up what could’ve been an untraceable crime with those slip-ups!

And his comment “never thought I’d be sitting in this courthouse” shows the level of confidence in his cover-up.

 

[Eaglette01]

Working (cosmetic/medical Day Theatre) - I was subjected to medical facial Laser procedures.
Burning the whole of the face.

The stench of burning skin is putrid & disgusting & would make me gag & dry-retch.
It's a very specific smell - sulfurous odor.
AC on full and I often opened the back door of the rooms.

I cant fathom sitting stoking a fire all night with burning flesh x 2.
I cannot comprehend what sort of Monster could do this.
Horror x 2.

I could NOT remain married/support someone who had.
Barbaric.

 

[LeChatNoir]

The only way it could have happened without seeing the rope, was that he came around the back of the toilet to the passenger side front of the Toyota and wrestled there. But he definitely said he approached their camp from the side and ducked down on the driver's side when Hill saw him and discharged three shots. Damn, forgot to tick that box!!

Bravo Lady O. That is exactly what my partner suggested and wanted to role play that scenario. I said we had to stick to what Lynn said no matter how impossible or irrational it sounded. I'd love to hear similar role play scenarios, amazing when you put yourself in character how things become clear...

In our role play I am Hill, partner is Lynn (sorry mate one of us had to be him)

Play 1)
Hill fires two warning shots.
Hill stands in front of his car, holding the shotgun (wearing headband flashlight).
Hill looks around, makes a mental note where Clay is and points the gun in the opposite direction of her - towards Lynn's campsite. As Hill turns around, in an instant he see's Lynn lunging for the gun, the fright causes Hill to accidentally discharge the weapon. bang! Lynn has a huge hole in him.

Play 2)
As above, but Hill looking away from Lynn campsite
Hill holding the gun, fires 2 warning shots.
Lynn sneaks up (hiding in the shadows), sees the gun over the bonnet of the vehicle.
Hill is holding the gun with his finger still on the trigger.
Lynn grabs the gun.
Hill caught by surprise accidentally discharges the gun just as Lynn rises from a crouching position besides the car. Bang! Lynn has a huge hole in him.

My partner got tired of being holey so we stopped playing.

PS: I know all this sounds silly and childish. But that is how we see Lynn's story. There were so many opportunities for Hill to accidentally discharge the firearm and kill Lynn, but that never happened!

 

[GrayRanga]

Two manslaughter charges would have been a far better way for the prosecution to proceed.
If the cop in charge of this matter thought it was murder, then how come he wasn't made to give evidence how that conclusion was reached.
As far as I saw the prosecution produced no evidence to suggest to the jury that it was two cases of murder.

The Police charged him with two counts of murder, suggesting that on the basis of the evidence available they were certain it satisfied the common law definition of murder (possibly after consultation with the DPP)

The DPP then took the evidence to Committal, where the Magistrate formed the view that there was a prima facie case made for the two charges and committed Lynn to stand trial for the murder of Hill and Clay.

During the summation of each party's case, the Defence will state that the Prosecution case does not meet the requisite level to convict Lynn of two counts of murder, and suggest that he be aquitted on those charges.

Depending on how the Defence reads the jury. it may suggest that convictions of Manslaughter be considered in lieu

The Justice, in his charge to the Jury, will be very specific about the requirements to convict a person of a charge of Murder,

He may also add a rider, that if the Jury consider that the Prosecution case does not meet the requisite level to convict him of murder, but, after explaining the difference, consider he is guilty of one or more charges of Manslaughter

This gives the Jury of finding Lynn not guilty of Murder but guilty of the alternate charge of Manslaughter of one or both parties.

The Crown will always lay the "heaviest" charge possible as once the defendant is committed for trial. the charges cannot be upgraded to a "heavier" charge.

The charges can always, at any time during the trial, be downgraded by the Prosecution or Judge to a lesser charge or dropped completely

 

[Lady O]

Working (cosmetic/medical Day Theatre) - I was subjected to medical facial Laser procedures.
Burning the whole of the face.

The stench of burning skin is putrid & disgusting & would make me gag & dry-retch.
It's a very specific smell - sulfurous odor.
AC on full and I often opened the back door of the rooms.

I cant fathom sitting stoking a fire all night with burning flesh x 2.
I cannot comprehend what sort of Monster could do this.
Horror x 2.

I could NOT remain married/support someone who had.
Barbaric.

I always thought people say that burning human smells like pork. But these people had been left in the open for 12 months before they were burnt. I cannot imagine how bad it would have been to sit near this fire all night.

 

[pan fried]

If this is a true account did you alert police once you thought it was Lynn?

Yes it is true but I don't write particularly well. I did call Vic Police and they said to lodge an online report which I did on 17 May 2024. I live in Queensland so the case was not local news thus unaware. I do not watch free-to-air tv so was not aware of any news pertaining to the case until recently. I’m disappointed with Vic Police as they have all my statement and my contact details, yet not one call or email.

IMO and from my personal encounter with who I believe was Greg Lynn. GL does not like anyone else sharing “HIS” camping site. At first acquaintance he presents himself as tough and scary, he speaks gruffly AT you, he shows you proof that he is armed with a firearm and has killed an animal at this campsite. These tactics are probably aimed at getting you to make the decision that camping next to this guy is a mistake and you should move on BEFORE setting up camp. If that tactic hadn’t worked, GL moves to Plan B.

Plan B: After the new camper/s have set up he will play loud music to antagonize/annoy them. When they have settled in for the night he prowls / stalks around the campers tent/swag/my 4wd camper, making noises to intimidate and scare them (at this stage you remind yourself that has a firearm and has demonstrated that he has no problem killing something, you are fearful for your life). GL expects no physical counter-action but is physically strong enough and probably armed to deal with anything his victim attempts (post #8955. GL admitted that he carries his Damascus knife at all times while camping). Plan B is to convince the camper to decide to move the next morning (I did exactly that).

Should a counter-action occur (eg. RH gets up and confronts GL) with the result GL kills the camper (and witness), he has to perform Plan C.
Plan C: This is his well conceived and well practised action plan set out in Aircraft Checklist like detail for forensically cleaning the site and disappearing the body. He has the required gloves and keroscene in his trailer to burn the tent/contents and anywhere blood was splattered. He knows what to do and has done it before on animals and other missing campers. The bodies disappear from the site and so does GL. He is a sycopath serial killer (IMO).

Note this about GL carrying out Plan C: Crown prosecutor Daniel Porceddu is putting to Gregory Lynn that his version of events about Hill discharging the firearm was a cover in case other campers heard multiple shots being fired.
He asked Lynn about how as a pilot he is trained to think rationally, methodically and calmly in crises but Porceddu argues that Lynn now wants the jury to believe he was “panicked” after the deaths.
“A better result is always achieved without panic,” Lynn replies. “I had never been faced with two dead people before.“

Had he only killed single campers before??? Perhaps these: Kelvin Tennant 8 Feb 2017 , Conrad Whitlock 29 July 2019, Niels Becker 24 Oct 2019.

 

[MiguelM]

Yes it is true but I don't write particularly well. I did call Vic Police and they said to lodge an online report which I did on 17 May 2024. I live in Queensland so the case was not local news thus unaware. I do not watch free-to-air tv so was not aware of any news pertaining to the case until recently. I’m disappointed with Vic Police as they have all my statement and my contact details, yet not one call or email.

IMO and from my personal encounter with who I believe was Greg Lynn. GL does not like anyone else sharing “HIS” camping site. At first acquaintance he presents himself as tough and scary, he speaks gruffly AT you, he shows you proof that he is armed with a firearm and has killed an animal at this campsite. These tactics are probably aimed at getting you to make the decision that camping next to this guy is a mistake and you should move on BEFORE setting up camp. If that tactic hadn’t worked, GL moves to Plan B.

Plan B: After the new camper/s have set up he will play loud music to antagonize/annoy them. When they have settled in for the night he prowls / stalks around the campers tent/swag/my 4wd camper, making noises to intimidate and scare them (at this stage you remind yourself that has a firearm and has demonstrated that he has no problem killing something, you are fearful for your life). GL expects no physical counter-action but is physically strong enough and probably armed to deal with anything his victim attempts (post #8955. GL admitted that he carries his Damascus knife at all times while camping). Plan B is to convince the camper to decide to move the next morning (I did exactly that).

Should a counter-action occur (eg. RH gets up and confronts GL) with the result GL kills the camper (and witness), he has to perform Plan C.
Plan C: This is his well conceived and well practised action plan set out in Aircraft Checklist like detail for forensically cleaning the site and disappearing the body. He has the required gloves and keroscene in his trailer to burn the tent/contents and anywhere blood was splattered. He knows what to do and has done it before on animals and other missing campers. The bodies disappear from the site and so does GL. He is a sycopath serial killer (IMO).

Note this about GL carrying out Plan C: Crown prosecutor Daniel Porceddu is putting to Gregory Lynn that his version of events about Hill discharging the firearm was a cover in case other campers heard multiple shots being fired.
He asked Lynn about how as a pilot he is trained to think rationally, methodically and calmly in crises but Porceddu argues that Lynn now wants the jury to believe he was “panicked” after the deaths.
“A better result is always achieved without panic,” Lynn replies. “I had never been faced with two dead people before.“

Had he only killed single campers before??? Perhaps these: Kelvin Tennant 8 Feb 2017 , Conrad Whitlock 29 July 2019, Niels Becker 24 Oct 2019.

Absolutely agree with this Re shots being fired.

 

[Lady O]

What I found to be c0cky, among many things, was GL comment along the lines of .”I think you’ll find that ticks every box”

To me, it definitely reeks of the notion “I’ve worked so hard to concoct this story… I’ve thought of everything… therefore I get full marks and a leave pass/get out of jail free card”

He’d be absolutely kicking himself for the CC skull/slug left at the campsite and RH phone Hotham camera!

He’s really covered up what could’ve been an untraceable crime with those slip-ups!

And his comment “never thought I’d be sitting in this courthouse” shows the level of confidence in his cover-up.

The Jetstar Gloves:

Lynn made quite a lot of his wearing Jetstar gloves, going into how he uses them to help the cabin crew clean up after a flight and sometimes he forgets and takes them home. How he also uses them when he is hunting to keep blood off his hands. He didn't explain where he got the blood from, presumably butchering the deer, but not sure if it is for trophies or meat or just for fun. Anyway, so then after the deaths of Hill and Clay, he immediately (within 10 minutes) began to engage his Pilot's brain and formulate a plan. He methodically removed the bodies to the trailer, cleaned up the blood on the vehicle, removed the broken mirror and took all the camping equipment into the tent and set it alight. He also opened up the cab and went through their wallets and removed money and (maybe) some credit cards (he can't remember)

However, he managed to do this without leaving either fingerprints (no gloves) or blood (with gloves). So presumably no fingerprints were found and his gloves were NOT bloody when he took the money from the wallet. He had to have taken the money before he began to clean up.

Another box he forgot to tick!

 

[LeChatNoir]

The Jetstar Gloves:

Lynn made quite a lot of his wearing Jetstar gloves, going into how he uses them to help the cabin crew clean up after a flight and sometimes he forgets and takes them home. How he also uses them when he is hunting to keep blood off his hands. He didn't explain where he got the blood from, presumably butchering the deer, but not sure if it is for trophies or meat or just for fun. Anyway, so then after the deaths of Hill and Clay, he immediately (within 10 minutes) began to engage his Pilot's brain and formulate a plan. He methodically removed the bodies to the trailer, cleaned up the blood on the vehicle, removed the broken mirror and took all the camping equipment into the tent and set it alight. He also opened up the cab and went through their wallets and removed money and (maybe) some credit cards (he can't remember)

However, he managed to do this without leaving either fingerprints (no gloves) or blood (with gloves). So presumably no fingerprints were found and his gloves were NOT bloody when he took the money from the wallet. He had to have taken the money before he began to clean up.

Another box he forgot to tick!

Very good point. I believe Lynn changed his clothes twice? Maybe he changed bloody gloves to clean gloves? We don't know how many pair of gloves he had.

 

[Lady O]

Very good point. I believe Lynn changed his clothes twice? Maybe he changed bloody gloves to clean gloves? We don't know how many pair of gloves he had.

Do you think he went back and forth to his camp, changing clothes and gloves? Would he have had the time?

 

[Eaglette01]

https://www.news.com.au/national/co...s/news-story/67057f8d72685d86e01b9a0907b0a921




He told the jury the scene was “horrendous”, and he used a pair of gloves previously taken from his then-job at Jetstar as he cleaned up blood and burnt their tent and belongings.

Mr Lynn said in the first few months he initially believed his efforts to disappear were successful, returning once in mid-May to check on the bodies.

But he realised his plan was “unravelling” after two detectives knocked on his door on July 14, 2020.

“I might have appeared calm on the outside, but panicking internally,” he said.

“I thought, ‘Well this plan is not working. I haven’t been able to disappear, so I have to make any remaining evidence disappear’.”

 

[LeChatNoir]

Do you think he went back and forth to his camp, changing clothes and gloves? Would he have had the time?

I believe Lynn's car would have been at Hill's campsite. Am I wrong?

 

[Lady O]

You need to compare the two maps. The first is Lynn's and the second is the one the Pros presented at the trial.

 

[Percel]

I've role played this part over and over and over with my partner to try and make it work the way Lynn said it happened. We failed. My partner told me if we were in a cartoon it might happen the way Lynn said.

Did you have a third party involved?

Could test the relationship

 

[LeChatNoir]

Did you have a third party involved?

Could test the relationship

The cat was playing the role of Ms Clay

 

[Lady O]

I believe Lynn's car would have been at Hill's campsite. Am I wrong?

If those mud maps are correct, then it does look like Lynn's car was at Hill's camp, with doors open and music blasting.

It looks to me like Hill (in his PJ's) went to turn off the music and Lynn was not in his camp but was most likely hiding nearby with the shotgun/knife. Killed Hill and then when Clay came out of the tent, killed her also!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I always thought people say that burning human smells like pork. But these people had been left in the open for 12 months before they were burnt. I cannot imagine how bad it would have been to sit near this fire all night.

Cooked human flesh tastes like pork (they say ) but burning human flesh smells repulsive.