Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

MOD NOTICE

This case is sub judice as under consideration by the courts. Sub judice contempt can occur if information is published that may be prejudicial to the court proceedings.

Please do not state as fact that which is opinion. Also, use 'IMO' and 'allegedly' a lot.

Rules - Updated Crime Board Rules - READ BEFORE POSTING​

General Information The BigFooty Crime board is a community that fosters discussion on current and past crimes, some which have social and media notoriety, that attracts the attention of public opinion and discussion on such matters. Please read these rules very carefully, both the Big Footy...

www.bigfooty.com

On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

The Jetstar Gloves:

Lynn made quite a lot of his wearing Jetstar gloves, going into how he uses them to help the cabin crew clean up after a flight and sometimes he forgets and takes them home. How he also uses them when he is hunting to keep blood off his hands. He didn't explain where he got the blood from, presumably butchering the deer, but not sure if it is for trophies or meat or just for fun.

He laid on the "I'm a good bloke that helps the cabin crew unlike other pilots" a little thick IMO.

But on the gloves he would wear them whilst butchering meat, gutting an animal is quite messy and gloves are very handy, you end up with all sorts of gore caught under you finger nails, all up your forearms etc, as you literally go elbow deep into the carcass, it's definitely not for the feint hearted.
But just taking a trophy is quite a clean process with very little blood to contend with.

 

[LeChatNoir]

If those mud maps are correct, then it does look like Lynn's car was at Hill's camp, with doors open and music blasting.

It looks to me like Hill (in his PJ's) went to turn off the music and Lynn was not in his camp but was most likely hiding nearby with the shotgun/knife. Killed Hill and then when Clay came out of the tent, killed her also!

Thanks for that. I was having trouble interpreting the lines, stick figure etc. ^^^ Gives me chills when you say it out loud!

 

[Underarrest_]

He laid on the "I'm a good bloke that helps the cabin crew unlike other pilots" a little thick IMO.

But on the gloves he would wear them whilst butchering meat, gutting an animal is quite messy and gloves are very handy, you end up with all sorts of gore caught under you finger nails, all up your forearms etc, as you literally go elbow deep into the carcass, it's definitely not for the feint hearted.
But just taking a trophy is quite a clean process with very little blood to contend with.

Interesting a pilot would help the cabin crew to go through and clean the cabin after each flight and take his gloves with him and would also take a lousy $40 from a horrific scene.
Took the $40 to make it look like a robbery gone wrong?
Who would have known they had $40 in cash?

 

[Lady O]

He laid on the "I'm a good bloke that helps the cabin crew unlike other pilots" a little thick IMO.

But on the gloves he would wear them whilst butchering meat, gutting an animal is quite messy and gloves are very handy, you end up with all sorts of gore caught under you finger nails, all up your forearms etc, as you literally go elbow deep into the carcass, it's definitely not for the feint hearted.
But just taking a trophy is quite a clean process with very little blood to contend with.

Yes, if you are camping and don't have anywhere to clean up. I would think that you would just cut off the head and hang the carcass until morning to bleed it and let it chill. Then butcher it in the morning. Warm meat is very messy.

 

[tandino]

Who would have known they had $40 in cash?

The amount of money is neither here nor there, rather the fact that there was no cash in the wallet when someone discovered it.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Yes, if you are camping and don't have anywhere to clean up. I would think that you would just cut off the head and hang the carcass until morning to bleed it and let it chill. Then butcher it in the morning. Warm meat is very messy.

It's not quite that straight forward, hunting on public land you rarely end up with a carcass anywhere near camp and hanging a 200kg+ animal in a tree an hour's plus walk from your car is not really an option.
Most of the time you end up butchering an animal into manageable portions and carrying out as much as your body can handle, then going back in for 1-2 more round trips.

 

[Lady O]

It's not quite that straight forward, hunting on public land you rarely end up with a carcass anywhere near camp and hanging a 200kg+ animal in a tree an hour's plus walk from your car is not really an option.
Most of the time you end up butchering an animal into manageable portions and carrying out as much as your body can handle, then going back in for 1-2 more round trips.

Do you eat that meat?

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Do you eat that meat?

Absolutely, so does most of my family and many friends and neighbours that I barter with.
I'd probably have at least 70kg of wild game in my freezer atm, it's incredibly rewarding and satisfying knowing where your meat comes from.

 

[Underarrest_]

The amount of money is neither here nor there, rather the fact that there was no cash in the wallet when someone discovered it.

Possibly, but I wouldn’t think no cash was suspicious. You don’t need cash in the bush and can use cards to buy fuel/other needs on the way there and back. The police would never have known either way they had any cash.

 

[Lady O]

Absolutely, so does most of my family and many friends and neighbours that I barter with.
I'd probably have at least 70kg of wild game in my freezer atm, it's incredibly rewarding and satisfying knowing where your meat comes from.

Bleeerrkkk, it would be black with blood, full of dirt and grit and probably worms and other microbes found in wild game.

 

[Percel]

Bleeerrkkk, it would be black with blood, full of dirt and grit and probably worms and other microbes found in wild game.

Dressed properly, that’s not case at all, pigs are a different story.

 

[Alberto_Magnifico]

Bleeerrkkk, it would be black with blood, full of dirt and grit and probably worms and other microbes found in wild game.

Yeh ok
Edit: I feel I should explain to the benefit of others why this is incredibly ignorant and not at all based in reality, but don't want to derail the thread any further.
If anyone actually cares and has an interest in knowing about wild game please feel free to DM me.

 

[InagoRaida]

Bravo Lady O. That is exactly what my partner suggested and wanted to role play that scenario. I said we had to stick to what Lynn said no matter how impossible or irrational it sounded. I'd love to hear similar role play scenarios, amazing when you put yourself in character how things become clear...

In our role play I am Hill, partner is Lynn (sorry mate one of us had to be him)

Play 1)
Hill fires two warning shots.
Hill stands in front of his car, holding the shotgun (wearing headband flashlight).
Hill looks around, makes a mental note where Clay is and points the gun in the opposite direction of her - towards Lynn's campsite. As Hill turns around, in an instant he see's Lynn lunging for the gun, the fright causes Hill to accidentally discharge the weapon. bang! Lynn has a huge hole in him.

Play 2)
As above, but Hill looking away from Lynn campsite
Hill holding the gun, fires 2 warning shots.
Lynn sneaks up (hiding in the shadows), sees the gun over the bonnet of the vehicle.
Hill is holding the gun with his finger still on the trigger.
Lynn grabs the gun.
Hill caught by surprise accidentally discharges the gun just as Lynn rises from a crouching position besides the car. Bang! Lynn has a huge hole in him.

My partner got tired of being holey so we stopped playing.

PS: I know all this sounds silly and childish. But that is how we see Lynn's story. There were so many opportunities for Hill to accidentally discharge the firearm and kill Lynn, but that never happened!

There was a line of questioning in cross about the presence or not of a tarpaulin or fly awning on the passenger side of Hill's ute to their tent. Lynn adamant not, the Prs. had suggested there was, i believe in crime scene pics of what looks like rope/cord burnt marks side lid of ute body. Defence questioned the type / make of tent, pics were put up of same model tent, so "fly"..only integral awning at front. Prs. discussed possibility of a secondary/added piece of tarp or mesh that could have been added to cover the area between tent and side hatch of ute tray (kitchen area?). Lynn couldn't recall it, dismissed by saying guy ropes are all over a camp. But you could see Prs. was trying to discredit Lynn's version with something that he wouldn't be aware of as he was cleaning up, if his story was predominantly concoted/finessed.
Also, picking up all the smashed/shattered pieces of glass from the mirror was questioned by Prs. It's almost preposterous that he picked up EVERY LITTLE SHARD AND FRAGMENT from the broken mirror, in a low lit area in a shortish period of time...
Its interesting in some ways,IMO, Lynn belives/creates perception he is self aware, confident, intelligent, IN CONTROL....yet, he goes out of his way when it suits his narrative IMO to paint himself as a bit of a panicky, clumsy, softy who got in over his head...and couldn't dig himself of of the ever deeper hole he was creating (no macabre pun intended).
If the police didn't come knocking, he would've done NOTHING IMO to redress or atone for his actions
Thankyou universe for closed gate, Hotham Cameras, and Russell's phone being on

 

[InagoRaida]

If those mud maps are correct, then it does look like Lynn's car was at Hill's camp, with doors open and music blasting.

It looks to me like Hill (in his PJ's) went to turn off the music and Lynn was not in his camp but was most likely hiding nearby with the shotgun/knife. Killed Hill and then when Clay came out of the tent, killed her also!

Lynn made many references, and Dann asked him to confirm as much at start of evidence...the sketched maps were in NO WAY TO SCALE! The actual distsnce were asked of by Dann, and spoken by Dann during Dann's initial questing of his client.
Indeed most of the Thursday morning session was a very detailed but somewhat recount and clarification of all the maps, what the symbols referred to, and in relation to police photos of the scene. Very precise, and very detailed.

 

[Lady O]

Lynn made many references, and Dann asked him to confirm as much at start of evidence...the sketched maps were in NO WAY TO SCALE! The actual distsnce were asked of by Dann, and spoken by Dann during Dann's initial questing of his client.
Indeed most of the Thursday morning session was a very detailed but somewhat recount and clarification of all the maps, what the symbols referred to, and in relation to police photos of the scene. Very precise, and very detailed.

Do you recall what all the marks in this mud map were meant to symbolise?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Lynn made many references, and Dann asked him to confirm as much at start of evidence...the sketched maps were in NO WAY TO SCALE! The actual distsnce were asked of by Dann, and spoken by Dann during Dann's initial questing of his client.
Indeed most of the Thursday morning session was a very detailed but somewhat recount and clarification of all the maps, what the symbols referred to, and in relation to police photos of the scene. Very precise, and very detailed.

Do you think the prosecution was able to unravel any substantial lies GL may have told police in his ROI?

 

[InagoRaida]

Do you recall what all the marks in this mud map were meant to symbolise?

View attachment 2014249

I do, im out tonight, but made a few notes when i got home after trial..will go thru them tomm some time

 

[InagoRaida]

I do, im out tonight, but made a few notes when i got home after trial..will go thru them tomm some time

Just quickly from my memory..the P was his Patrol, with doors open pointing almost westeard. The arrow at the left was apprx north.
the bottom two rectangles were the Hill's toyota, dooted lines in both cases were the respective access track each took into the camp...

 

[MiguelM]

Interesting a pilot would help the cabin crew to go through and clean the cabin after each flight and take his gloves with him and would also take a lousy $40 from a horrific scene.
Took the $40 to make it look like a robbery gone wrong?
Who would have known they had $40 in cash?

I think he said he took the money so he couldn't be tracked withdrawing money or using credit card.

For someone in a panic he sure had clarity of thoughts early in the piece as to minimise any involvement.

 

[Eaglette01]

From memory RH wife gave him cash too before RH left for his trip.

Don't think she ever discussed how much cash it was.

RH could have had $4000k in cash - we know nothing (only that there was no cash found in vehicle)

I dont for one moment believe RH & CC had $20 each = $40 at their camp.

 

[Underarrest_]

I think he said he took the money so he couldn't be tracked withdrawing money or using credit card.

For someone in a panic he sure had clarity of thoughts early in the piece as to minimise any involvement.

He sure did, told the court that he had some cash himself and the cash he took would help him pay for fuel on the way home after saying his initial intention was to make it look like a robbery.
He definitely had peace of mind.

 

[Underarrest_]

From memory RH wife gave him cash too before RH left for his trip.

Don't think she ever discussed how much cash it was.

RH could have had $4000k in cash - we know nothing.

My point was more that without the police knowing there was any cash, how are they going to come to the conclusion that money was stolen, re robbery gone wrong.
Police didn’t know there was $40 until GL told them.
GL took the money because he could and it would also help him travel home undetected.IMO.

 

[revo333]

Just seems no.proof of what really happened either way. Baffling.
Part of the story prosecution could argue is if they both pushed up against the tow bar an angle of a bullet from a straight gun barrel going through a side mirror don't really work. Was the rope photographed by crime scene. Jury will look and see if that inevitably got in the way.

According to the podcast the prosecution hammered GL hard in regards that the rope would have gotten in the way.

 

[Spectrix]

I discussed this case in detail with a friend over dinner last.

It's interesting that Lynn's story, while unlikely, aligns so closely with the available evidence and I think the jury in this case are going to have a tough time making a decision about whether or not to support a double murder charge, based on the prosecution's evidence and suggested chain of events. I can't help but feel that the prosecution's case is weak in some areas.
Part of it is because Lynn destroyed a good deal of the evidence. But I don't feel that the prosecution have put enough thought into the chain of events, with the details surrounding Russell Hills actual death being a massive grey area.

There are a couple of things in particular that bug me about Lynn's version. One is RH firing shots into the air. The only possible scenario that I can see anyone firing a gun into the air is as a warning, or to draw attention.

I'm also perplexed about the particulars of the struggle between RH and GL.

This picture showing the guy rope between the Landcruiser's bumper and the camp toilet is telling:



As far as I understand, Lynn is suggesting that RH was standing in the vicinity of the front of the Landcruiser when he discharged shots.
Well, I don't believe that RH would have attempted to pass through that narrow space, under the guy rope, in the dark. Actually I believe that both RH and CC would have viewed that space between the Ute's bumper and the toilet as no man's land.

I also don't believe that RH would have discharged a weapon right next to his brand new pride and joy, or anywhere near CC as it would have scared the bejesus out of her.
I understand that the prosecution raised questions about the two men struggling for control of the weapon under that guy rope etc.

Let's move on to the particulars of RH's death.

Lynn claims that this happened at his own camp, with RH being the aggressor. I think it's likely that Lynn is telling the truth about the location of RH's death, as he would have been aware that crime scene analysis might show it anyway.

My dinner companion pointed out that RH may have been lured to Lynn's camp.
This notion actually fits in nicely with the story about the music being turned up, about RH being bare foot in pyjamas, and about RH and CC having possibly been disturbed while on the job in the tent.

Lynn turns the music up, Russell looses his shit and heads over to Lynn's camp, where Lynn is waiting ready for a physical altercation.

Carol Clay is an unfortunate witness, and it may be that Lynn took several shots at her.
I'm not sure about the car mirror. I found it interesting that Lynn went to the trouble of describing how the laser scope would have been illuminating the passenger side mirror rather than CC's head. It may be that the mirror wasn't involved at all, but it was used to support Lynn's story of an accidental shooting. Maybe he shot through it later, or maybe he simply destroyed it.

I need to point out that what I've written above is simply a theory, because I don't particularly like either Lynn's version nor the prosecution's version. And the only living person who knows what actually went down is Lynn.
I don't feel that the prosecution have come anywhere near proving beyond reasonable doubt that Lynn commited two murders.

It's a fascinating case and it's going to be interesting to see what the jury makes of it all.

 

[InagoRaida]

My point was more that without the police knowing there was any cash, how are they going to come to the conclusion that money was stolen, re robbery gone wrong.
Police didn’t know there was $40 until RH told them.
RH took the money because he could and it would also help him travel home undetected.IMO.

I think you mean Lynn (not Rh)