Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[LeChatNoir]

Curious that GL said in his testimony that he didn’t think RH was actually going to shoot him. Or am I mistaken? Strange reaction to someone he didn’t think was a genuine threat.

In the podcast Lynn makes a couple of comments where he fears he might be shot:


He pulled the action back and he let a couple of rounds go into the air.

I immediately ran around the back here, fearing that you know, that I might be able, might be going to cop the next one and I waited.

It was in shadow around here and it was dark.

I didn’t want to run back towards my car ‘cause if he was going to, you know, shoot me then he would’ve had a clear shot.

 

[independant witness]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. There's no justification for his subsequent actions, but there is another motivation other than the theory that he is responsible for two murders.

Agree.The primordial survival instinct would have been triggered. I once heard a true refugee story where children on a leaky boat were trampled by the adults as everyone tried to save themselves. I heard this from a survivor on that boat.It's difficult to remain completely impartial, unjudgemental, and walk in the shoes of Lynn. We all think / know we wouldn't have behaved this way, but maybe his nature & training would allow him to consider " nothing could be done for those two, so I decided to save myself".
P.s. I lean towards him having had a big part in their deaths, but I also like to try on all hats.

 

[Underarrest_]

In the podcast Lynn makes a couple of comments where he fears he might be shot:


He pulled the action back and he let a couple of rounds go into the air.

I immediately ran around the back here, fearing that you know, that I might be able, might be going to cop the next one and I waited.

It was in shadow around here and it was dark.

I didn’t want to run back towards my car ‘cause if he was going to, you know, shoot me then he would’ve had a clear shot.

If RH was going to shoot GL, why would RH be shooting rounds in the air? There would only be one reason IMO (with RH dislike of guns) for RH to be any kind of threat to GL, being if RH was scared of or defending himself/Ms Clay.

 

[independant witness]

If RH was going to shoot GL, why would RH be shooting rounds in the air? There would only be one reason IMO (with RH dislike of guns) for RH to be any kind of threat to GL, being if RH was scared of or defending himself/Ms Clay.

This is a red flag in the Lyn story. If it were to be true , then I can imagine that R. H. took the ammunition & fired the shots to make the gun safe, as he would have had to expect that Lynn would come after it ???

 

[Lady O]

In the podcast Lynn makes a couple of comments where he fears he might be shot:


He pulled the action back and he let a couple of rounds go into the air.

I immediately ran around the back here, fearing that you know, that I might be able, might be going to cop the next one and I waited.

It was in shadow around here and it was dark.

I didn’t want to run back towards my car ‘cause if he was going to, you know, shoot me then he would’ve had a clear shot.

Has anyone else noticed how 'flexible' his story has become?

 

[LeChatNoir]

If RH was going to shoot GL, why would RH be shooting rounds in the air? There would only be one reason IMO (with RH dislike of guns) for RH to be any kind of threat to GL, being if RH was scared of or defending himself/Ms Clay.

I agree. If Hill took the gun & ammo, and fired 3 or 4 warning shots in the air, I would suggest he did so out of desperate fear for himself and Clay, which would make him very jumpy and may discharge it when is he startled by Lynn jumping up and grabbing the gun. IMO

My interpretation of Lynn's story is that a 74 year old Hill was standing guard at the front of his ute, with a primed shotgun. Hill may or may not have been wearing his glasses, which might make him even more jumpy when he sees shadows moving around.

 

[Lady O]

Don't know. It might be true but it was thrown out as evidence as not solid enough, successfully challenged etc etc

We might find out when it's over.

From the link:
"On Friday, Crown prosecutors confirmed police believe Lynn went straight home after allegedly killing the couple."

[snip]

"Court documents alleged Lynn had arrived at the hotel after murdering and torching the elderly couple's campsite.

Traces of singed hair were later recovered by police from the scene and analysed.

Court documents stated 'a hotel in the Wonnangatta region claimed a room was left with numerous bloodstains, all were cleaned with the exception of possible remnants on a bathmat'.

While Mr Hill's DNA was 'likely' found on the mat, none of Ms Clay's was located, documents state.

The documents stated it was equally possible Mr Hill's blood was not on the mat.

'The DNA evidence is equally likely under both propositions,' the documents stated."

It seems the Pros could not PROVE that Hill's blood was on the mat or the singed hair was Lynn's, so had to withdraw the allegations. Perhaps that will be reserved for round 2.

 

[ken]

I’m certain I read either during trial or ROI, Lynn’s own words were he stayed at “The Pines” in Jamieson on the night after the deaths. That would be Saturday 21st. Lynn also stated he burnt a second set of his own clothes at The Pines and possibly some items of the deceased.

 

[Lady O]

I’m certain I read either during trial or ROI, Lynn’s own words were he stayed at “The Pines” in Jamieson on the night after the deaths. That would be Saturday 21st. Lynn also stated he burnt a second set of his own clothes at The Pines and possibly some items of the deceased.

Wasn't there bushfires raging at that time? Probably fires in the open would not have been permitted?

 

[theouthouse]

"My hand was not on the trigger it was on the barrel, right hand, left hand on the stock pushing up against him."
Gregory Lynn during police interview in 2021. ref: Missing Campers Podcast.

My understand is that Lynn is adamant that he hasn't killed anyone. According to his own story, he was in control of the direction of the firearm at the time Ms Clay was shot.

Correct, and one would assume in control of the struggle between RH and himself. RH had to be pushed backwards and turned 270 degrees anti clockwise to be in position where the firearm was fired from through the side view mirror and into CC, given the positioning of GL hands on the firearm and sighting the barrel over the Ute's bonnet from the driver's side area, dodging guy wires and very limited space for two men.

I mean it's plausible he came from under the guy rope and pivoted RH around, but the fact that the gun was still loaded and ready to be fired when this altercation between RH and GL occured with GL in such close proximity, and after 3 failed warning shots by RH, that RH must have reloaded the gun and then been 'hunting' GL in order to kill him with the barrel over the front of the ute when GL made his move to thwart him.

There is a phenomenon in psychology called projection which I believe sums up a lot of GL version of events.

 

[ken]

Wasn't there bushfires raging at that time? Probably fires in the open would not have been permitted?

Being from Brisbane I have no clue. Usually the bans are localised in Victoria I thought?

Anyways, I think I may have heard about the Pines on the missing campers podcast. It was only in the last couple of days I’ve learnt that info. It piqued my interest because it was out if his mouth and I’ve never heard anywhere about exactly where he stayed on the 21st.

Jogging my memory I think it was his ROI. The police asked him what he did with his clothing. Lynn stated he burnt the first set at Hills camp, then he burnt a second set at The Pines. The second set of clothes would have got messy up at Grant unloading the bodies I presume.

 

[Underarrest_]

Thinking about it, if GL was willing to do what he did in the aftermath of the deaths because of his career, etc, I’d think it would be feasible that he would try and steal the drone (knowing there could be damaging footage on it) out of RH’s truck for the same reasons. IMO.

 

[ken]

No matter how hard I try, I just cannot believe Hill even got his hands on that gun. I find it extremely doubtful, preposterous even! Here are a few reasons why. If anyone cares I am a regular 4wder, camper, outdoors bloke who loves a beer around a campfire. I’ve hunted before using rifles although it’s not a big hobby of mine. I’ve been to Wonnangatta.

Here are just a few reasons why.


• it’s dark, and apparently he was in bed trying to have fun (Lynn’s version). Massive pain in the ass getting out of your tent at night.
• it’s a remote area, no one around.
• Hill is 73 and unarmed, Hill knows Lynn is younger, fitter and armed.
• Hill knows there is already animosity between the two blokes. They both would have been somewhat “on edge”
• Hill has a 74 yo lady friend in the tent (supposedly), why would he elevate the tension, risking armed confrontation while in the company of a lady? Big call.
• what was Hills plan once he got the gun? What was he thinking? It’s not as if Lynn’s a naughty 18 yo teenager about to get his gun confiscated.
• Hill may have been grumpy or whatever, but at his age I’d suggest he was well smart enough to not do something so stupid as to walk to another man’s camp/car, reach inside and take a gun!
• it’s just such a risky, reckless move considering Clay was with him. I just have trouble believing he would do that.


Ok, now I will accept/pretend that Hill made the outrageous (and unbelievable) move and went to Lynn’s camp to get the gun out of his car. The way Lynn describes these events are even MORE unbelievable.

• again its dark, apparently no lights inside Lynn’s car. Only campfire light?
• 73yo, in the dark, apparently finds the gun bag, unzips, finds magazine also?
• if Hill used a torch, surely Lynn would have seen him?
• Lynn would have been on edge, already animosity between parties. His ears and eyes would have been pricked so to speak. It’s not as if he would have been falling asleep singing Slim Dusty tunes loving life. He would have been on high alert.
• how on earth did Hill not only get the gun and mag, but make it back to Hills camp approx 40/50m away?
• literally EVERYONE camps right next to their car. Lynn would have been sitting no more than a few meters away from his car. How did Hill get the gun and get back to camp before a confrontation?
• considering the animosity already brewing, I’m expected to believe Lynn just left guns and ammo sitting on his car seat, at night with the car doors open? No way. I’d believe a younger, more reckless youth would possibly do that. But not a 57yo pilot who is already arguing with his camp neighbour.


In my opinion there is no way Hill would have got that gun, and made it back to camp before Lynn confronted him. If Hill did reach into the car, the confrontation over the gun would have taken place at or very near Lynn’s car. Lynn would have been sitting meters away and on alert. I’m also expected to believe 73yo Hill, in the middle of the night, managed to find the right gun with the right magazine, then he loaded the magazine, cycled the action etc? Hill had a torch you might say? Well how on earth didnt Lynn see him inside Lynn’s car with a torch?

All my opinions of course

 

[Underarrest_]

No matter how hard I try, I just cannot believe Hill even got his hands on that gun. I find it extremely doubtful, preposterous even! Here are a few reasons why. If anyone cares I am a regular 4wder, camper, outdoors bloke who loves a beer around a campfire. I’ve hunted before using rifles although it’s not a big hobby of mine. I’ve been to Wonnangatta.

Here are just a few reasons why.


• it’s dark, and apparently he was in bed trying to have fun (Lynn’s version). Massive pain in the ass getting out of your tent at night.
• it’s a remote area, no one around.
• Hill is 73 and unarmed, Hill knows Lynn is younger, fitter and armed.
• Hill knows there is already animosity between the two blokes. They both would have been somewhat “on edge”
• Hill has a 74 yo lady friend in the tent (supposedly), why would he elevate the tension, risking armed confrontation while in the company of a lady? Big call.
• what was Hills plan once he got the gun? What was he thinking? It’s not as if Lynn’s a naughty 18 yo teenager about to get his gun confiscated.
• Hill may have been grumpy or whatever, but at his age I’d suggest he was well smart enough to not do something so stupid as to walk to another man’s camp/car, reach inside and take a gun!
• it’s just such a risky, reckless move considering Clay was with him. I just have trouble believing he would do that.


Ok, now I will accept/pretend that Hill made the outrageous (and unbelievable) move and went to Lynn’s camp to get the gun out of his car. The way Lynn describes these events are even MORE unbelievable.

• again its dark, apparently no lights inside Lynn’s car. Only campfire light?
• 73yo, in the dark, apparently finds the gun bag, unzips, finds magazine also?
• if Hill used a torch, surely Lynn would have seen him?
• Lynn would have been on edge, already animosity between parties. His ears and eyes would have been pricked so to speak. It’s not as if he would have been falling asleep singing Slim Dusty tunes loving life. He would have been on high alert.
• how on earth did Hill not only get the gun and mag, but make it back to Hills camp approx 40/50m away?
• literally EVERYONE camps right next to their car. Lynn would have been sitting no more than a few meters away from his car. How did Hill get the gun and get back to camp before a confrontation?
• considering the animosity already brewing, I’m expected to believe Lynn just left guns and ammo sitting on his car seat, at night with the car doors open? No way. I’d believe a younger, more reckless youth would possibly do that. But not a 57yo pilot who is already arguing with his camp neighbour.


In my opinion there is no way Hill would have got that gun, and made it back to camp before Lynn confronted him. If Hill did reach into the car, the confrontation over the gun would have taken place at or very near Lynn’s car. Lynn would have been sitting meters away and on alert. I’m also expected to believe 73yo Hill, in the middle of the night, managed to find the right gun with the right magazine, then he loaded the magazine, cycled the action etc? Hill had a torch you might say? Well how on earth didnt Lynn see him inside Lynn’s car with a torch?

All my opinions of course

Agree with all of that, and for the same reasons you’ve stated above, why would you risk taking one gun and risk leaving the other one there. Makes no sense at all. IMO

 

[ken]

Agree with all of that, and for the same reasons you’ve stated above, why would you risk taking one gun and risk leaving the other one there. Makes no sense at all. IMO

Mate I can tell you now, there is no way in that situation I would leave my missus at camp in the middle of the night and go grab another blokes gun out of his car! No flippin way. It’s such an inflammatory, highly risky, dick move and I cannot believe a man Hills age would be so stupid, reckless.

Only Chick Norris has the balls for that task.

 

[Awakening]

There’s also a saying

“A narcissists accusations are their confessions”

 

[fargo in dargo]

No matter how hard I try, I just cannot believe Hill even got his hands on that gun. I find it extremely doubtful, preposterous even! Here are a few reasons why. If anyone cares I am a regular 4wder, camper, outdoors bloke who loves a beer around a campfire. I’ve hunted before using rifles although it’s not a big hobby of mine. I’ve been to Wonnangatta.

Here are just a few reasons why.


• it’s dark, and apparently he was in bed trying to have fun (Lynn’s version). Massive pain in the ass getting out of your tent at night.
• it’s a remote area, no one around.
• Hill is 73 and unarmed, Hill knows Lynn is younger, fitter and armed.
• Hill knows there is already animosity between the two blokes. They both would have been somewhat “on edge”
• Hill has a 74 yo lady friend in the tent (supposedly), why would he elevate the tension, risking armed confrontation while in the company of a lady? Big call.
• what was Hills plan once he got the gun? What was he thinking? It’s not as if Lynn’s a naughty 18 yo teenager about to get his gun confiscated.
• Hill may have been grumpy or whatever, but at his age I’d suggest he was well smart enough to not do something so stupid as to walk to another man’s camp/car, reach inside and take a gun!
• it’s just such a risky, reckless move considering Clay was with him. I just have trouble believing he would do that.


Ok, now I will accept/pretend that Hill made the outrageous (and unbelievable) move and went to Lynn’s camp to get the gun out of his car. The way Lynn describes these events are even MORE unbelievable.

• again its dark, apparently no lights inside Lynn’s car. Only campfire light?
• 73yo, in the dark, apparently finds the gun bag, unzips, finds magazine also?
• if Hill used a torch, surely Lynn would have seen him?
• Lynn would have been on edge, already animosity between parties. His ears and eyes would have been pricked so to speak. It’s not as if he would have been falling asleep singing Slim Dusty tunes loving life. He would have been on high alert.
• how on earth did Hill not only get the gun and mag, but make it back to Hills camp approx 40/50m away?
• literally EVERYONE camps right next to their car. Lynn would have been sitting no more than a few meters away from his car. How did Hill get the gun and get back to camp before a confrontation?
• considering the animosity already brewing, I’m expected to believe Lynn just left guns and ammo sitting on his car seat, at night with the car doors open? No way. I’d believe a younger, more reckless youth would possibly do that. But not a 57yo pilot who is already arguing with his camp neighbour.


In my opinion there is no way Hill would have got that gun, and made it back to camp before Lynn confronted him. If Hill did reach into the car, the confrontation over the gun would have taken place at or very near Lynn’s car. Lynn would have been sitting meters away and on alert. I’m also expected to believe 73yo Hill, in the middle of the night, managed to find the right gun with the right magazine, then he loaded the magazine, cycled the action etc? Hill had a torch you might say? Well how on earth didnt Lynn see him inside Lynn’s car with a torch?

All my opinions of course

exactly this. brilliant post. thank you

 

[LeChatNoir]

Agree with all of that, and for the same reasons you’ve stated above, why would you risk taking one gun and risk leaving the other one there. Makes no sense at all. IMO

I don't wear my glasses at night (they're good in daylight but not so good with poor light). So my eyesight isn't great at night. Is this common among people who wear glasses? Maybe Hill couldn't wear his at night?

 

[ken]

supposedly Hill and Clay were in bed.

I can imagine the conversation something along the lines…

Hill rustles, unzips the tent…

Clay “you ok dear? Where are you going?”

Hill “im fine love, just going to go over to that younger blokes camp to steal his shotgun from his car. You know, the bloke I argued with earlier”

Clay “ok dear, see you when you get back”

 

[Underarrest_]

I don't wear my glasses at night (they're good in daylight but not so good with poor light). So my eyesight isn't great at night. Is this common among people who wear glasses? Maybe Hill couldn't wear his at night?

It’s possible RH couldn’t wear his glasses or see very well at night even with his glasses.

 

[Underarrest_]

supposedly Hill and Clay were in bed.

I can imagine the conversation something along the lines…

Hill rustles, unzips the tent…

Clay “you ok dear? Where are you going?”

Hill “im fine love, just going to go over to that younger blokes camp to steal his shotgun from his car. You know, the bloke I argued with earlier”

Clay “ok dear, see you when you get back”

Can’t see it happening. If anything maybe GL thought they’d gone to sleep but RH was awake on high alert in the tent. IMO

 

[Spectrix]

where did the now clearly erroneous info re the motel bathmat come from??

Is this incorrect??

Don't know. It might be true but it was thrown out as evidence as not solid enough, successfully challenged etc etc

We might find out when it's over.

From this DailyFail Article:
"Forensic experts found the blood of Mr Hill, 74, was 'likely' found on a single sample from a white bathmat at a hotel in the Wonnangatta Valley, in Victoria's rugged alpine region, but it was later deemed implausible.

On Friday, Crown prosecutors confirmed police believe Lynn went straight home after allegedly killing the couple."

"Court documents stated 'a hotel in the Wonnangatta region claimed a room was left with numerous bloodstains, all were cleaned with the exception of possible remnants on a bathmat'...
While Mr Hill's DNA was 'likely' found on the mat, it was equally possible Mr Hill's blood was not on the mat"
~~~

Rather ambiguous words there. It looks to me as if numerous bloodstains were found in a hotel room but it was nothing to do with Lynn or the missing campers.

 

[Percel]

Greg (for you)

If it’s not yours, don’t take it

If it’s not right, don’t do it

If it’s not true, don’t say it

If you don’t know, shut up

 

[Spectrix]

I’m certain I read either during trial or ROI, Lynn’s own words were he stayed at “The Pines” in Jamieson on the night after the deaths. That would be Saturday 21st. Lynn also stated he burnt a second set of his own clothes at The Pines and possibly some items of the deceased.

Interesting. I can't see any reference to that in the media. "The Pines" is a campground, rather than a hotel.

 

[Underarrest_]

From this DailyFail Article:
"Forensic experts found the blood of Mr Hill, 74, was 'likely' found on a single sample from a white bathmat at a hotel in the Wonnangatta Valley, in Victoria's rugged alpine region, but it was later deemed implausible.

On Friday, Crown prosecutors confirmed police believe Lynn went straight home after allegedly killing the couple."

"Court documents stated 'a hotel in the Wonnangatta region claimed a room was left with numerous bloodstains, all were cleaned with the exception of possible remnants on a bathmat'...
While Mr Hill's DNA was 'likely' found on the mat, it was equally possible Mr Hill's blood was not on the mat"
~~~

Rather ambiguous words there. It looks to me as if numerous bloodstains were found in a hotel room but it was nothing to do with Lynn or the missing campers.

Clear as mud.