Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

[Kurve]

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[nut]

One of Lynn's campsite setups this was back in April. Pretty basic and no sign of the Camper. It seems he was always camping, escaping the world so to speak?

looks like he brings bought wood with him

 

[outspace]

My thoughts also. If investigators had sifted the remains of RH and CC footwear from burnt remains, they haven't mentioned it or suggested the missing pair were asleep or prone (shoe-less) when attacked. And repeated searches in surrounding bushland never suggested that searchers were looking for a shoe-less couple

I can imagine a psycho driving into the tent in a rage or under the influence, but as I said earlier, it would have ended up as a bloodbath. Because the driver would have known he'd have to finish them off. And people in a half/fully collapsed tent, having been subjected to a drive-over, would more than likely be injured. Their adrenalin would be through the roof. Survival instincts on full. They'd grab for anything to defend themselves. RH could have habitually had a knife strapped to his leg (prepared for snakes, etc.). And CC could have grabbed for a saucepan, anything. So unless the driver was prepared to simply drive off leaving his gear (realising he'd be apprehended later) he'd have to leap out of his vehicle and start swinging. It would have been messy, killing two people simultaneously who were intent on surviving. The perp himself risked being injured/disabled. So setting fire to the tent and chucking into the blaze anything which he could have touched or which might have borne traces of his own blood was an act of self-preservation on the perp's part after he'd murdered RH and CC by whatever means. He'd lost the plot at that point because creating a blaze was a risk

Some might argue the perp was in a psychotic rage and decided to simply drive into the tent even if RH and CC were up and about and in and out of the tent at the time. But only a psycho with the mentality of a comic-book would believe they could 100% kill two adults that way

and if he did drive into the tent, there would be evidence of that such as mangled, squashed items which investigators would have sussed

But, as Kurve has said, the drive into the tent scenario was simply suggested earlier in the thread as a 'possible', not a reality

This got me good...

I absolutely agree. Not as if sleeping bags are hermetically-sealed/leak-proof. Plus they can be slippery. The perp doesn't look like any sort of iron-man either and two older adults, recently dead, would weigh a ton. Lucky the perp didn't have a heart-attack while trying to get them into RH vehicle or a trailer

plus, someone said earlier -- whether or not true -- that the RH vehicle rear wasn't designed to transport two dead, adult bodies. And would the RH vehicle cab be any better (the Weekend at Bernie's comments earlier in the thread)

Not to mention the possibility that someone could enter the campground while the perp was using the RH vehicle to transport the bodies (outside possibility but still a possibility). Let's say a hiker stumbled into that campground, exhausted after becoming lost earlier, and simply tossed a tarp on the ground in the shadow of trees. What would they make of someone arriving in RH vehicle, burning down a tent and tossing everything into it, only to take off in the perp's blue vehicle?

Anyway, if the perp had used the RH vehicle to transport the bodies, that vehicle would have been a goldmine for investigators. Evidence galore, including the perp's dna. Because in the dark, in a panic, I don't believe the perp would painstakingly manage to remove every trace. And despite that police returned RH's vehicle to his home initially (before seizing it again after a week or so) they would have found evidence (and blood) of not only RH and CC, but also perp's dna and/or fingerprints. Which would have ruled out the searches for the missing couple back when it was believed they could still be alive but lost in bushland

No words cant type. Sorry lord.

 

[Sir_Loin]

looks like he brings bought wood with him

Trailer good for that. Plus all the other shit you don’t want in the cruiser. Maybe even to transport venison if he was out on a hunt. Not sure if it had any power for refrigeration.

 

[imho]

Except we know he tried to leave via the Myrtleford gate...indicating he wasn't planning on heading to Dargo or Grants HA

yes, someone did attempt to leave by the myrtleford gate, close to midnight, BUT perhaps GL had already BEEN to Dargo, and only returned to the campsite to torch the tent???

in pondering whose vehicle may have been used to transport RH/CC to Dargo — i think not RH's — that is unless there was a possibility that GL and RH/CC had traveled to Dargo in their respective vehicles in a friendly convoy turned sour. in the event of that having happened, if RH/CC had then met their demise close to the burial site, Hill's vehicle could not have been returned to the campsite, unless GL didn't act alone, despite it being stated that he did?

as far as dna,
detectives slipped up big time by initially assuming the disappearance was misadventure rather than foul play. they did not attend the scene for almost one week, after which Hill's vehicle was returned to his family for a week, or possibly longer(?) before it was reclaimed for investigative purposes.
that massive cockup by detectives may have lead to the destruction of any possible dna evidence from whoever it was that ransacked Hill's vehicle, leaving their cards strewn on the floor.

two dozen cops stayed at two different premises in Dargo during their search for the remains.

Human remains have been found in search for missing Victorian campers

Victoria Police have made a grisly discovery as part of their investigation into the disappearance of campers Russel Hill and Carol Clay.

www.skynews.com.au

imho

 

[Badd0g]

looks like he brings bought wood with him

Good spot! There's also a nice shiny new metal bucket on the left....a replacement for an old rusting one, left behind at a previous campsite perhaps?

 

[nut]

My source says Lynn did a lot of solo camping …. 5 days not uncommon

 

[nut]

I wonder if he had to off load room in the trailer to fit the bodies … then return to get his stuff?

 

[Badd0g]

...detectives slipped up big time by initially assuming the disappearance was misadventure rather than foul play. they did not attend the scene for almost one week, after which Hill's vehicle was returned to his family for a week, or possibly longer(?) before it was reclaimed for investigative purposes.
imho

The campsite wasn't located/reported until the Friday after they disappeared, after RH had been reported missing by his wife. Someone had seen it but not reported it on the Saturday - they only came forward when the picture was circulated While not being able to reveal all, I can confirm that the police attended the campsite as soon as it was reported to them.

 

[TheJanuaryMan]

It'll make a great movie if done well!
Re: hikers. Very few people hike into the valley. It's a long hard slog from down off the Viking or down the very steep Dry River track and a big chunk of it on 4wd tracks. There's no real walking tracks in the area. Most people don't bother - they just loop back up from the river to the Howitt Rd. We get some odd looks when we hike in.

Knowing our film industry, it will probably have Gary Sweet in it somewhere, possibly with Jack Thompson as Button Man.

 

[Kurve]

two dozen cops stayed at two different premises in Dargo during their search for the remains.

This will be one of them, welcome to Dargo.

 

[L756]

Quote " Not to mention the possibility that someone could enter the campground while the perp was using the RH vehicle to transport the bodies (outside possibility but still a possibility). Let's say a hiker stumbled into that campground, exhausted after becoming lost earlier, and simply tossed a tarp on the ground in the shadow of trees. What would they make of someone arriving in RH vehicle, burning down a tent and tossing everything into it, only to take off in the perp's blue vehicle?"

Now we are getting really far fetched..! There's no doubt somebody will make a movie of the case.! Some parts fiction too...

Well we're dealing with a perp who's mind's derailed to the extent we're all seriously suspecting he killed two people for whatever reason, and who thought he was operating logically in transporting them in the dead of night to another location to bury them before going home to his family. Maybe to him, in the state he must have been in, the thought he may be observed by a random, lost hiker was a possibility -- not to mention those forest-lurkers he might have suspected could be out there and sneaking around campsites, or the blackberry guy. Especially if the struggle between him and RH and CC had been noisy

So, considering all the above and more possibilities, would the perp have opted to use the RH vehicle as transport, afterwards to drive back to the site, dump RH's vehicle, set the blaze then take off in his own vehicle and trailer? Would you?

 

[imho]

This will be one of them, welcome to Dargo.

View attachment 1290432

yes. no link, but 20 stayed at one place, and 4 at the other


imho

 

[Sir_Loin]

My source says Lynn did a lot of solo camping …. 5 days not uncommon

this makes sense to me. Haul all your gear and food in. Dismount trailer (hard top, lockable) and use the cruiser to get to the spots you want for fishing and hunting. Don’t want to be going back to any towns to re-supply if you can avoid it.

 

[footscray1973]

And despite that police returned RH's vehicle to his home initially (before seizing it again after a week or so) they would have found evidence (and blood) of not only RH and CC, but also perp's dna and/or fingerprints. Which would have ruled out the searches for the missing couple back when it was believed they could still be alive but lost in bushland

as far as dna,
detectives slipped up big time by initially assuming the disappearance was misadventure rather than foul play. they did not attend the scene for almost one week, after which Hill's vehicle was returned to his family for a week, or possibly longer(?) before it was reclaimed for investigative purposes.
that massive cockup by detectives may have lead to the destruction of any possible dna evidence from whoever it was that ransacked Hill's vehicle, leaving their cards strewn on the floor.

I'm surprised police returned the vehicle so quickly to the family! As you both say, could be a DNA/evidence disaster. Surely they did a decent comb over it before returning it, or did they realise their mistake when they reclaimed it? Even if it turns out it's not as critical as the trailer, the strewn wallets and cards could have yielded important evidence.

Edit: assuming GL was the one who opened the wallets and dropped all the cards. Could have been an opportunist after the fact, but how would the car then be locked - self-locking doesn't work on time delay?!

 

[imho]

The campsite wasn't located/reported until the Friday after they disappeared, after RH had been reported missing by his wife. Someone had seen it but not reported it on the Saturday - they only came forward when the picture was circulated While not being able to reveal all, I can confirm that the police attended the campsite as soon as it was reported to them.

little doubt they did, and i'm not saying the detectives cockup was intentional, just that, as i previously inferred, their arrival at the campsite was not immediate, but rather delayed somewhat, and as it was reported that RH's vehicle was initially returned to his family, i consider the decision to do so MAY have interfered with the gathering of dna, and/or the possible contamination of relevant dna.

are you a cop, oh defensive deliverer of the the tidbits you're able to reveal?


imho

 

[L756]

It'll make a great movie if done well!
Re: hikers. Very few people hike into the valley. It's a long hard slog from down off the Viking or down the very steep Dry River track and a big chunk of it on 4wd tracks. There's no real walking tracks in the area. Most people don't bother - they just loop back up from the river to the Howitt Rd. We get some odd looks when we hike in.

Sure. Many of you are familiar with the region and your input is appreciatively taken onboard by those of us who aren't. But I'm thinking now of what media has portrayed as 'hikers' who saw the burnt-out site early on but didn't report it until later? Thinking also of comments in another forum where someone who personally knew RH claimed (in response to people's comments about hikers) that there were no hiking trails in the vicinity. That comment drew respectful response from someone who apparently lives in the broader region and who posted a map of several hiking trails there

but, obviously, my comment about the 'lost hiker chucking a tarp under trees' was simply an 'outside possibility' which, despite the odds against, have occurred and which may have occurred to the perp if he was considering using the RH vehicle

 

[outspace]

The campsite wasn't located/reported until the Friday after they disappeared, after RH had been reported missing by his wife. Someone had seen it but not reported it on the Saturday - they only came forward when the picture was circulated While not being able to reveal all, I can confirm that the police attended the campsite as soon as it was reported to them.

Last heard 20th, burn out 21st ? Police the next/same day, then decided no foul play ? Inoticed in imho map the times on flags, i may be way behind but this reporting seems familiar, not to keep in with being on whatever track i am on, but, this was when the usb cab situation was reported ?

Asking everyone of course.

 

[Sir_Loin]

Knowing our film industry, it will probably have Gary Sweet in it somewhere, possibly with Jack Thompson as Button Man.

Surely Bryan Brown and Sam Neil in contention. Maybe Hugo Weaving as the villain?

 

[Badd0g]

I'm surprised police returned the vehicle so quickly to the family! As you both say, could be a DNA/evidence disaster. Surely they did a decent comb over it before returning it, or did they realise their mistake when they reclaimed it? Even if it turns out it's not as critical as the trailer, the strewn wallets and cards could have yielded important evidence.

Edit: assuming GL was the one who opened the wallets and dropped all the cards. Could have been an opportunist after the fact, but how would the car then be locked - self-locking doesn't work on time delay?!

Vital new evidence discovered after pair mysteriously disappear from campsite

9now.nine.com.au

" The car underwent a forensic analysis before being returned to Mr Hill's Drouin home."

 

[Zidane98]

I'm surprised police returned the vehicle so quickly to the family! As you both say, could be a DNA/evidence disaster. Surely they did a decent comb over it before returning it, or did they realise their mistake when they reclaimed it? Even if it turns out it's not as critical as the trailer, the strewn wallets and cards could have yielded important evidence.

Edit: assuming GL was the one who opened the wallets and dropped all the cards. Could have been an opportunist after the fact, but how would the car then be locked - self-locking doesn't work on time delay?!

Easy to explain. The key they found was a spare one that RH had hidden away in the vehicle. His family had told the police where he usually hides a spare and they retrieved it.


His normal set of keys were not recovered. Perp probably locked the vehicle, took them with him and disposed of them.

 

[L756]

I'm surprised police returned the vehicle so quickly to the family! As you both say, could be a DNA/evidence disaster. Surely they did a decent comb over it before returning it, or did they realise their mistake when they reclaimed it? Even if it turns out it's not as critical as the trailer, the strewn wallets and cards could have yielded important evidence.

Edit: assuming GL was the one who opened the wallets and dropped all the cards. Could have been an opportunist after the fact, but how would the car then be locked - self-locking doesn't work on time delay?!

Been thinking about the wallets and contents ...

Could RH's vehicle have been unlocked at the time of his death? Opportunist tested the doors, found one or both unlocked, rifled through the wallets, took the cash then either left or locked the doors out of sheer habit of doing same to their own vehicle? Maybe the first opportunist left the door/s unlocked then a second or third curious individual decided 'this vehicle should be locked' ?

Weren't the keys in the vehicle when police attended ... seem to remember something about that

 

[L756]

Vital new evidence discovered after pair mysteriously disappear from campsite

9now.nine.com.au

" The car underwent a forensic analysis before being returned to Mr Hill's Drouin home."

No offence, but I don't believe that ( I realise you're citing verbatim and it's not your personal opinion)

 

[Badd0g]

Last heard 20th, burn out 21st ? Police the next/same day, then decided no foul play ? Inoticed in imho map the times on flags, i may be way behind but this reporting seems familiar, not to keep in with being on whatever track i am on, but, this was when the usb cab situation was reported ?

Asking everyone of course.

Wife reported him missing mid week after 2 days of no contact on radio (she listened in on conversations but wasn't able to participate as she wasn't licensed to use the HF radio). Search commenced around Wonangatta - last known location. Police stopping motorists on Howitt rd - alerting them to description of couple and car they were looking for. 4WDers heading into valley come across the burnt out campsite on the Friday 27th, take photo. Drive back up to Howitt rd for reception, report to police. Police respond immediately . Hikers called in to police after photo taken to say they had been past at approx 2pm next day and site was cold. That was how they established the timeline of the 18 hours - between the radio call ending and the hikers sighting of the campsite. I believe that the initial assumption was that the fire hadn't been deliberately lit, but photographer suggests it was "off" right from the beginning

 

[imho]

Vital new evidence discovered after pair mysteriously disappear from campsite

9now.nine.com.au

" The car underwent a forensic analysis before being returned to Mr Hill's Drouin home."

in which case, if it had already been forensically analysed WHY did they decide they needed it back?

was it because they'd since ruled in foul play and simply needed to possess the vehicle to add to their collective of crime scene evidence?

or was it reclaimed for a more extensive investigation/analysis ???


imho

 

[Badd0g]

Sure. Many of you are familiar with the region and your input is appreciatively taken onboard by those of us who aren't. But I'm thinking now of what media has portrayed as 'hikers' who saw the burnt-out site early on but didn't report it until later? Thinking also of comments in another forum where someone who personally knew RH claimed (in response to people's comments about hikers) that there were no hiking trails in the vicinity. That comment drew respectful response from someone who apparently lives in the broader region and who posted a map of several hiking trails there

but, obviously, my comment about the 'lost hiker chucking a tarp under trees' was simply an 'outside possibility' which, despite the odds against, have occurred and which may have occurred to the perp if he was considering using the RH vehicle

There are tracks but they're not easy to actually get to unless you drive in. The only one of note is really the Dry river track (which is a b(*ch to climb or descend and not used by many). It was definitely hikers who reported that they had come across the site.
I'm not suggesting it's impossible...but they are few and far between so may not have been at front of mind