Current Trial Russell Hill & Carol Clay - Wonnangatta *Pilot Greg Lynn Pleads Not Guilty to Murder

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On the Greg Lynn committal proceedings Crown Prosecutor Mr Dickie said 'It is clear hopefully from the document, and if it's not clear from the document it's clear hopefully from the charges put before the court, that it is alleged of course that the accused acted with murderous intent when he allegedly killed the two victims.'

 

[ken]

Interesting. I can't see any reference to that in the media. "The Pines" is a campground, rather than a hotel.

Yes I found it interesting also. I’m fairly certain it was in the podcast with the voiceovers.

And yes The Pines is a commercial campground. Most of these places have cabins etc as well as camping. And it’s not unusual to stay in a cabin/room and also have a fire ring outside to use. Almost all of these places have that feature.

Guessing the state he was in, I doubt he would have wanted to use the toilet/shower block at the campground. I think he would have wanted a private shower for obvious reasons. Lynn clearly stated he burnt a second set of his own clothes at The Pines

 

[ken]

Interesting. I can't see any reference to that in the media. "The Pines" is a campground, rather than a hotel.

I went back and listened to the missing campers podcast.

Lynn was on the stand when he tells of staying at The Pines and burning a second set of clothes.

The episode is called “the defendant takes the stand”

 

[justallyone]

If, and obviously a big if IMO, GL grabbed the barrel of the gun, he would be perpendicular to the gun, not in front of it. Right hand on barrel, left on stock means pointy end directed to the right of GL.

Personally I think if any scuffle actually occurred, it was on the passenger side, after RH busted GL scoping out his campsite and it was RH that had GL bent back over the bonnet (explains the bruises and lack of interference with the toilet guy), gun across his chest pointing at CC who has also come out of the tent via the mirror (explains the angle of hitting both mirror & CC). RH then goes to CC (surely GL wouldn't have just let him up off the bonnet if it were him over the top), GL takes RH out there with knife over CCs body (explains lack of RH blood evidence) All IMO only of.cour

Correct, and one would assume in control of the struggle between RH and himself. RH had to be pushed backwards and turned 270 degrees anti clockwise to be in position where the firearm was fired from through the side view mirror and into CC, given the positioning of GL hands on the firearm and sighting the barrel over the Ute's bonnet from the driver's side area, dodging guy wires and very limited space for two men.

I mean it's plausible he came from under the guy rope and pivoted RH around, but the fact that the gun was still loaded and ready to be fired when this altercation between RH and GL occured with GL in such close proximity, and after 3 failed warning shots by RH, that RH must have reloaded the gun and then been 'hunting' GL in order to kill him with the barrel over the front of the ute when GL made his move to thwart him.

There is a phenomenon in psychology called projection which I believe sums up a lot of GL version of events.

In the podcast Lynn makes a couple of comments where he fears he might be shot:


He pulled the action back and he let a couple of rounds go into the air.

I immediately ran around the back here, fearing that you know, that I might be able, might be going to cop the next one and I waited.

It was in shadow around here and it was dark.

I didn’t want to run back towards my car ‘cause if he was going to, you know, shoot me then he would’ve had a clear shot.

Found GL’s quote from his testimony that I was referring to - "I don't know if he intended to shoot me or not. Probably not. I think he was trying to keep the shotgun for himself and scare me off."

 

[Lady O]

I was very surprised to hear that they now believe Hill and Clay arrived at their campsite on the 19th. After the two men reported driving along behind them (going very slowly) on the 19th, I think we dismissed it as a mistake. I was just looking at some of the earlier reports and it seems they were sure that they did not arrive until the 20th.

"Mr Hill left his Drouin home on March 19 before collecting Ms Clay from her home in Pakenham in his white Toyota LandCruiser.

The pair then travelled via Licola, spending one night at Howitt High Plains before heading into Wonnangatta Valley on March 20."

I understand it was early days, but they must have had some evidence to believe they stayed the night of the 19th at Howitt High Plains.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/detectives-display-burnt-out-items-seized-from-wonnangatta-campsite-where-russell-hill-carol-clay-vanished/news-story/51673fe275bcf68134dc14afa10644b9

 

[InagoRaida]

Have been away but just caught up with the latest ep of the podcast.

Couple more things that stick out and don't fit he story:

Dann speaking of the scene and referring to it as a crime scene before correcting himself and calling it the accident scene.

Lynn answering Prs question re evidence that would have supported his story and referring to his gun bag.... Yet another hurdle for RH to access the gun before GL could.: a zipped up gun bag.

At every turn there's holes in his story but IMO still not enough for a jury to convict x2 murder beyond reasonable doubt.
InagoRaida youve said a couple of times you think mansl is off the table... Curious as to why you believe that to be so.

I was there the last 4 days of last week....
Especially salient for this asapect, thurs afternoon after 2:40pm, and all day friday.......

Very much looking forward to tommorrow
End of this week, jury will go into deliberation, and soon after we should have an answer back...we can all focus on normal life again, and i won't be travelling to william st each day

 

[MrsBlueSky]

End of this week, jury will go into deliberation, and soon after we should have an answer back...we can all focus on normal life again, and i won't be travelling to william st each day

I don't know. We get so embroiled in these criminal cases that when they come to an end it's a bit of a strange feeling. It's a bigger let down if the defendant doesn't get what he deserves and perhaps a bit of anger comes in to thinking about what could have been done differently.
But Bruce Lehermnan's saga dragged on for so long it was enough to make you want to vomit.
If he's found to be guilty, it could be a month before we know how long GL gets in prison. It would make me happy if it's decades.

 

[Spectrix]

It's a bigger let down if the defendant doesn't get what he deserves and perhaps a bit of anger comes in to thinking about what could have been done differently.

If Greg Lynn walks free after this, it's probably best to focus your attention on Justin Stein instead. He's also pleading innocent, also has a very expensive lawyer, but has about a one in a billion chance of walking free afterwards.
And if by some stroke of dumb luck he does walk free, I'd suggest his chances of staying alive long after re-entering society are nil to none.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Can’t see it happening. If anything maybe GL thought they’d gone to sleep but RH was awake on high alert in the tent. IMO

What about the loud music Lynn was allegedly playing? Not much sleep to be had.

 

[maggiethecat]

Wasn't there bushfires raging at that time? Probably fires in the open would not have been permitted?

I can’t remember the bushfires but I do remember we were about to go into lockdown which made me question the whole Pines story as it still would have been quite warm and the Pines gets very busy over the warmer months so I don’t think it would have been a great place to go for privacy.
He talked about this on the stand and said he refueled at the BP roadhouse ( incidentally just up the road from where I live) but I’d like to relisten as I thought he said he refueled twice in Mansfield and it wasn’t picked up on?
So when does he go to the motel ?

 

[maggiethecat]

Yes I found it interesting also. I’m fairly certain it was in the podcast with the voiceovers.

And yes The Pines is a commercial campground. Most of these places have cabins etc as well as camping. And it’s not unusual to stay in a cabin/room and also have a fire ring outside to use. Almost all of these places have that feature.

Guessing the state he was in, I doubt he would have wanted to use the toilet/shower block at the campground. I think he would have wanted a private shower for obvious reasons. Lynn clearly stated he burnt a second set of his own clothes at The Pines

I’m not sure the pines has cabins or toilets , it’s pretty much free camping

 

[gymjam]

Possibly,
How much more powerful would it have been if GL was reenacting it himself. No ducking under the guy rope (because he didn’t see it.)

hmmmm I wonder if there had been a forensic study to see whose dna was held within the knot. And a further study to see if the way the knot was actually tied, to prove it was a way either victim tied knots, or the alleged perpetrator tied knots.

If it turned out a study revealed the knot was tied totally differently than anyone known to be present and there was no dna present from the 2 victims or the alleged perpetrator, then the question: who tied the knot ?, needs to be answered.

 

[gymjam]

I've been pondering on Lynn's clean up of Hill & Clay campsite, and of course his own campsite, ensuring he left no trace of his own presence was left there.

Looking at the food scraps and packaging rubbish he left at his arrest campsite, makes me think he is a messy kind of person, who's priority may not be clean up after himself? If so, I suggest his campsite at Bucks camp was already packed and ready to go before the alleged murders. IMO

Jetstar pilot still being questioned over disappearance of missing Victorian campers

www.9news.com.au

Maybe the state (with strewn rubbish) of his arrest campsite, gives a view into his mental state at the time.

 

[InagoRaida]

Already a strong turn- out braving the cold. Legal arugements and debate on jury directions (Liberato, etc.) Will commence shortly, prior to the trial commencing again with the summation of Prs.
You can feel the anticipation just amongst the people waiting, the dama heightened in the esteemed environs of Vic's Supreme Court, #3.

 

[Underarrest_]

What about the loud music Lynn was allegedly playing? Not much sleep to be had.

True true, not much sleep neither would they be ‘having some fun,’ (as in GL’s words) I would assume.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

True true, not much sleep or ‘having some fun,’ I would assume.

All in an attempt by Lynn to further cast the victims in a questionable light. In other words, a crabby aggressive old man, having it off with a woman who wasn’t his wife, then caused both their deaths, leaving poor innocent Lynn with a terrible dilemma

 

[Lady O]

All in an attempt by Lynn to further cast the victims in a questionable light. In other words, a crabby aggressive old man, having it off with a woman who wasn’t his wife, then caused both their deaths, leaving poor innocent Lynn with a terrible dilemma

Insinuating that they deserved it. Anything to diminish his responsibility.

 

[Zidane98]

If Greg Lynn walks free after this, it's probably best to focus your attention on Justin Stein instead. He's also pleading innocent, also has a very expensive lawyer, but has about a one in a billion chance of walking free afterwards.
And if by some stroke of dumb luck he does walk free, I'd suggest his chances of staying alive long after re-entering society are nil to none.

The likelihood of GL walking free is quite low considering he pretty much admitted to involuntary manslaughter in his version of events of CC's death and also fully admitted destruction of evidence / interfering with a corpse.

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Justin Stein... if by some stroke of dumb luck he does walk free, I'd suggest his chances of staying alive long after re-entering society are nil to none.

I'd certainly go along with that.

 

[jason_recliner]

The likelihood of GL walking free is quite low considering he pretty much admitted to involuntary manslaughter in his version of events of CC's death and also fully admitted destruction of evidence / interfering with a corpse.

He's not walking out of there.

 

[Zidane98]

I was very surprised to hear that they now believe Hill and Clay arrived at their campsite on the 19th. After the two men reported driving along behind them (going very slowly) on the 19th, I think we dismissed it as a mistake. I was just looking at some of the earlier reports and it seems they were sure that they did not arrive until the 20th.

"Mr Hill left his Drouin home on March 19 before collecting Ms Clay from her home in Pakenham in his white Toyota LandCruiser.

The pair then travelled via Licola, spending one night at Howitt High Plains before heading into Wonnangatta Valley on March 20."

I understand it was early days, but they must have had some evidence to believe they stayed the night of the 19th at Howitt High Plains.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/detectives-display-burnt-out-items-seized-from-wonnangatta-campsite-where-russell-hill-carol-clay-vanished/news-story/51673fe275bcf68134dc14afa10644b9

It's also confirmed by the Serbian campers they were there on the 19th and RH/CC's mobile phones going off the network 12.30pm on the 19th of March. It appears they didn't spend the night on Howitt high plains, they would have had mobile phone reception in that case.


So it is prett much confirmed they did arrive on the 19th. There was no radio call on the 19th because RH hadn't set the aerial up yet.

 

[ApplesandBananas]

It's also confirmed by the Serbian campers they were there on the 19th and RH/CC's mobile phones going off the network 12.30pm on the 19th of March. It appears they didn't spend the night on Howitt high plains, they would have had mobile phone reception in that case.


So it is prett much confirmed they did arrive on the 19th. There was no radio call on the 19th because RH hadn't set the aerial up yet.

I'm unclear as to why this is important bit of detail?

 

[MrsBlueSky]

Who said RH was wearing a head torch and who said he didn't see it?
That's a bit confusing if it was the same person.

 

[GladdyDee]

Flight Centre Captain as Lynn, Fair ground operator from Scooby-Doo as Hill, Shirley from A Country Practice as Clay... At least one of them would be some kind of unholy human-drone cyborg... Weed sprayers getting High...

What could go wrong?

Flight Centre Captain as Lynn, Fair ground operator from Scooby-Doo as Hill, Shirley from A Country Practice as Clay... At least one of them would be some kind of unholy human-drone cyborg... Weed sprayers getting High...

What could go wrong?

Neflix limited series - GL Gary Oldman, RH Harrison Ford, CC Jackie Weaver Story unfolds in reverse, staring with the jury taking a record short deliberation. Featuring drone flashbacks IMO + copyrighted here and forwith.

 

[FrankGrimes]

Already a strong turn- out braving the cold. Legal arugements and debate on jury directions (Liberato, etc.) Will commence shortly, prior to the trial commencing again with the summation of Prs.
You can feel the anticipation just amongst the people waiting, the dama heightened in the esteemed environs of Vic's Supreme Court, #3.

Have you spoken to anybody regarding their git fell?
Was in that area last week and spoke to a lawyer in a lift briefly about nothing, was tempted to ask him his feel for the case.

 

[GardenGnome]

True true, not much sleep or ‘having some fun,’ I would assume.

Yes, it’s so telling that he made mention of them “in the tent having fun”

There’s really only one way GL would know that RH/CC were in the tent at that time - it is because GL waited until they were settled for the night then approached their campsite.

It explains why he knows they were in the tent “having fun” it also explains the pyjamas and bare feet.

iMO GL approached the campsite, and fired off the warning shots with the intention of continuing the conflict and retrieving the drone.

I do not for one minute believe that RH approached GL campsite and grabbed his shotgun; to me, that notion is preposterous.

If RH wanted to report GL, he already had the drone footage and it would make more sense that GL would be in possession of the shotgun when/if later visited by police.

Even if RH did retrieve the shotgun, there is no way he would be firing off shots, given his dislike of guns and awareness of gun safety, no way at all.