Opinion Sack Hinkley 7 - "Turn it around or watch out"

[PrisonBars4life]

Yep only total halfwits go down that road.

I like it when I/we use historical arguments with the benefit of hindsight to support my arguments.

I don't like it when others use historical arguments with the benefit of hindsight to support my arguments.

 

[Jason K]

Imagine thinking of Hinkley's time here and then using the word legacy

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Imagine thinking of Hinkley's time here and then using the word legacy

Legacy - something left or handed down by a predecessor

The shit I'm about to take will have a legacy. Anyone that is around for a long time has a legacy good or bad. Hinkley's will be a bit of both. Imagine being this petty.

 

[Jason K]

Legacy - something left or handed down by a predecessor

The s**t I'm about to take will have a legacy. Anyone that is around for a long time has a legacy good or bad. Hinkley's will be a bit of both. Imagine being this petty.

Well, if you're comparing Hinkley to the shit you're about to take, I believe we are finally on the same page.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

With a midfield coach that lived in another state and a fitness coach that every supporter could see was unbelievably bad. I don't think Primus would have been successful with the resources Ken has but we will never know.

Primus was sacked. Hinkley is still here.

We have more resources off the back of the board that you are all calling a bunch of spuds.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Well, if you're comparing Hinkley to the s**t you're about to take, I believe we are finally on the same page.

 

[Jason K]

We have more resources off the back of the board that you are all calling a bunch of spuds.

Revisionist again

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Revisionist again

Nuanced.

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Legacy - something left or handed down by a predecessor

The s**t I'm about to take will have a legacy. Anyone that is around for a long time has a legacy good or bad. Hinkley's will be a bit of both. Imagine being this petty.

Easily the best thing you've posted today.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

Easily the best thing you've posted today.

 

[El_Scorcho]

2014 i'd say you do. 2017, we arguably gave him an extra year, which I have admitted. Again, these early sackings wouldn't happen at a club with our financial position. I guess the counter to that is a club in our financial position would have been wary about a long contract. From memory we gave him 4 years in 2017 which means sacking him in 2019 is 2 years early. Even a 3-year deal (which I think would have been fair) means he survives to 2020(you're not going pay 2 coaches for a full year) at which point he gets extended again.

That 2017 extension is inexcusable, and what should have happened after 2019 is Hinkley getting sacked and Koch/KT stepping down after failing the club with that ridiculous extension.

2017 was not a successful year. We repeatedly lost to decent teams and made the 8 on the back of a soft draw, and lost our EF. For Hinkley to be given 4 more years after that is insane, irresponsible and has led to the current enormous disconnect between the club and the supporters.

You would obviously realize if you sack Hinkley in 2017, 18, 19, that you don't necessarily get to keep the list we have yes? Lots of players we needed to keep resisted larger offers. Wines, SPP, Dixon were very gettable and you don't know about others. He approved the moving on of 2 of our best players in 2018 (which turned out to be a very good decision) so we may not have even drafted Rozee, Butters, Duursma. People keep on saying we have underachieved with our list, he's a big part of keeping that list together. If you are disloyal to people that were 'close' to successful you can't expect loyalty from the players.

This isn't a good excuse to keep a coach who can't win us a flag. Players will get over the sacking of a coach because it's their job to do so. It happens at every other club just fine. If players are playing for the coach and not the club, then the culture is wrong and they all need to be moved on.

Hinkley is a mid-tier coach. He's not great, but terrible coaches don't have the Home and Away record he does. They don't make finals half the time with a better than 50%-win rate in finals. Getting players to buy into the 'work hardery for longery' ethos already makes him better than half the coaches in the league. He clearly inspires loyalty and buy in from the players, unfortunately he is very clearly not the tactician of the great coaches. Arguably you could get that from your assistants, the club obviously thought this was a possibility as it has brought in some high caliber assistants over the journey.

Being a middling coach is as bad as being a bad coach because the goal is to win a flag. You need to be able to put it all together in a season to win a grand final. There's absolutely no point having any of the other pieces in place when you don't have a coach who can win you a flag. He should have been moved on the instant it was obvious he couldn't win us a flag, which was in 2017. He's continued to demonstrate that since.

It's getting to the point that he looks incapable of winning a flag which means he should go. But we're not guaranteed of getting a better coach and that's why I think the devil you know was a fair or at least defensible position WHEN the decisions were made.

The better the devil you know argument is complete bullshit. You don't need to know the next person will be better to move on a failed coach, you only need to know the current coach isn't good enough, and that's been obvious for half a decade. Again, the goal is to win Premierships. Not to make the finals half the time.

With the benefit of hindsight, you would say he was very lucky to have upswings at the right time, but I don't think you can fault the board for making the decisions they did at the time. The vitriol levelled at him is massively overblown.

No, the board are massively and obviously at fault. The lengthy extensions are absolutely indefensible. The unwillingness to take responsibility for bad decisions in hindsight is indefensible. They've made bad decision after bad decision and they've created this disconnect with the fanbase.

The deathriding and constant bashing of our players, board, coach, and everything in between is toxic as *. At that point, if people hate everything about the club, why are they even here? It's sad and pathetic.

Lots of people aren't, and the club have driven a lot of die hards away with their conduct. But I've been a member since 1997 and I'll be a member when Koch and Hinkley are long gone. If they are going to trash the culture at my football club, they're going to hear about it week in week out until they fix it or leave.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Legacy - something left or handed down by a predecessor

The s**t I'm about to take will have a legacy. Anyone that is around for a long time has a legacy good or bad. Hinkley's will be a bit of both. Imagine being this petty.

What will be good about it?

 

[PrisonBars4life]

As to avoid full page chains - Ill just post without the quote. I fundamentally disagree that it was obvious he couldn't win a flag half a decade ago and that is where we differ. He got really close in his 2nd year and that has clearly teased people for some time. We go 14-8 with some absolutely cheating efforts like that Geelong game that robbed us of a top 4 in 2017. To me 2018 is the only place where I might have sacked him. The list rejuvenation in the 2018 draft gave some optimism in 2019, which is at least partly justified as we finished top 4 the following 2 years. He got as close as anyone except Buckley to a flag without winning one and he did that twice. Hinkley didn't miss the shots on goal in 2014, he didn't drop Duursma's mark, make Hartlett's mistakes for him, or decide to be cooked at 3/4 time and let Nankervis do as he pleased.

The thing that we are absolutely terrible at is goalkicking. We have been a bottom 4 side at it for Hinkley's entire tenure. I don't think It's Hinkley's job to teach a professional footballer how to kick for goal. Even if it's a coaches job, it's the forward coach's job. If we're top 4 in that facet of the game, we win at least 1 flag and play finals almost every year. I don't see a new coach turning Boak, Wines, Dixon, etc into dead eye dicks.

At the end of the day, you can disagree. That's fine. As I have mentioned it's the hyperbole and endless negativity that I find grating. Some of the standards people are applying. If people think Hinkley was so bad (despite 2013/14) that some people wanted to sack him by 2016, that's a road to nowhere. Sacking a coach every 3 years is the sort of thing the rubbish clubs that stay down for 15 years do.

 

[PatientMental]

2 finals wins in the last 8 season

The same amount in the last 8 seasons as Brad Scott.

Except scott hasn't coached since r10, 2019.

But nah, Ken's a great coach.

 

[Lightning_Rod]

That's also fair. But it negates the negativity around Hinkley. If people were saying 'look Hinkley is a pretty good coach, he's done some good things, made some mistakes, but it's time for him to go' that's one thing. That's where I am at now. Trashing his legacy is another. People give him no credit for the things he's got right. People will say players have gotten worse under him? Explain the young talent. Explain SPP, explain Marshall. Those 2 were difficult cases with their backgrounds. Explain all the people he cut loose who he was right to. I was as vocal as any about hating the Ladhams trade, but Sydney are seething about his lack of discipline at the moment. I've been very vocal on not playing Sam Hayes. I guess if/when he leaves, we will find out whether that was right as well. People mock him about his 'greyhound club', but he;s shown loyalty to people that has been repaid. Amon, Marshall, SPP. He's got the best out of Wines, Aliir has done more at Port than he ever did at Sydney. Those players will be available to the next coach when they probably would have been lost with a lesser coach. I thought he was capable of winning a flag until after the PF last year. He got extremely close twice. I don't buy the GF bullshit. Who was closer to a flag, Port 2014/20 or Sydney 2022? We were. He came to a club that was a laughingstock and will leave it as a bog vanilla also ran. He's a Rodney Eade. He's respected by everyone outside the club for being 'pretty good'.

Anyone that says he's a bad/terrible/s**t coach is throwing a tantrum.

What is his legacy, in your words sum it up for us?

You don’t want us shitting on his legacy but his coaching has shat all over our clubs legacy.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

He got as close as anyone except Buckley to a flag without winning one and he did that twice.

As close as possible to winning a flag?

He hasn't even made a Grand Final


On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[PatientMental]

As close as possible to winning a flag?

He hasn't even made a Grand Final


On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Since Hinkleys been coach Pyke, Buckley, Lyon, Cameron, Longmire x3 have gotten closer than hinkley has to a flag.

This bloke is cooked.

 

[Lightning_Rod]

Since Hinkleys been coach Pyke, Buckley, Lyon, Cameron, Longmire x3 have gotten closer than hinkley has to a flag.

This bloke is cooked.

Janus alias account?

 

[PatientMental]

Fmd even Simpson 1-1 and Beveridge 1-1 have done better than donuts

 

[DaTBird187]

Fmd even Simpson 1-1 and Beveridge 1-1 have done better than donuts

An actual donut has done as good as Hinkley.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

As close as possible to winning a flag?

He hasn't even made a Grand Final


On SM-G975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Losing a GF by 10+ goals doesn't count for much. We lost twice to the premier by a goal in a prelim, both teams ended up being 3x premiers. That's close mate.

 

[PatientMental]

Losing a GF by 10+ goals doesn't count for much. We lost twice to the premier by a goal in a prelim, both teams ended up being 3x premiers. That's close mate.

No it's not.

He can't even make the ****ing last game of the year.

 

[PrisonBars4life]

What is his legacy, in your words sum it up for us?

You don’t want us shitting on his legacy but his coaching has shat all over our clubs legacy.

His legacy is he took a club that was completely munted to a club that apparently will be very good with a better coach. Built a decent list, held it together. Instilled the much maligned 'work hardery for longery'. If he's as bad as you say he is tactically, a half decent tactician will see us shoot up the ladder with the list Hinkley built.

 

[TeeKray]

How many clubs have won flags in the past 11 years?

How do you define success? If it's a flag ...

7 of the other 17 clubs have won flags in the past 11 years - Sydney, Hawthorn, Western Bulldogs, Richmond, West Coast, Melbourne and Geelong. That is 40% of our competitors.

Success is winning a flag. The fact that you need that defined is laughable.

Where are you getting he doesn't care from? In the 2018 draft he put his job on the line when he moved on senior players for draftees for the long-term benefit of the club. I'm watching the Rioli trade closely as to what we give up. If we overpay that would put a bit of a sour taste in the mouth.

'some loser' - he has an above average home and away record with a (marginally) above average record in finals.

Lol, Hinkley didn't do what he did in 2018 to help the club, he did it to buy himself time by making the team younger and lowering expectations.

He obviously doesn't care. He laughs when we lose. He shows no care in either his words or his body language. It is a job to him.

An above average record means nothing. He's never won a premiership as a player or a coach. That's a loser.

You all sound like Essendon *******s. Clarkson was never coming here (and he might not be going anywhere yet). No one has ever advanced a name other than Clarkson who wasn't a Port man. You all wanted Dew, he hasn't set the world on fire. You want Schofield/ Carr. Neither are terrible options, but insular ones. The criticism of Hinkley and how overblown it is smacks of 'he's an outsider, he's not one of us'. That's the exact kind of thinking that has destroyed Essendon. People keep on wanting to point to history and 'no coach has survived x years without a GF'. History tells us that stability wins flags. Clarkson finished bottom 4 in his first 2 seasons. Richmond were mediocre and yoyoed up and down the ladder ... until they won. Melbourne the same. Meanwhile clubs that have chopped and changed their coaches have been a disaster. Essendon and Carlton being the standouts. They weren't made better sides by bringing in high profile coaches. They have destroyed themselves not having a long-term plan. If Carr or Schofield end up coach just watch the goalposts move. You won't be calling for their heads if we make the finals 3 times in their first 5 years. Our list is amazing, and we are grossly underperforming under Hinkley I hear. How long before I can expect a flag with him gone? Should be easy right? It's flag or everyone is s**t right?

Hinkley has proven across a decade that he isn't capable of winning a premiership. Throughout this time he's had playing lists of differing strength to work with and been given loads of time to improve and develop those lists and has still failed to even so much as make a grand final.

Stability doesn't win flags. Winning flags creates stability. Clarkson won a flag in his 4th year. Hardwick won a flag in his 8th year. Goodwin won a flag in his 5th year. Next year is Hinkley's 11th year.

The alternatives argument is just the last refuge of the desperate. Everyone started off as unproven. And there are plenty of proven coaches that could be talked into doing the job (Scott, Pyke, Lyon, Buckley, to name a few).

 

[PatientMental]

Hinkley said 'i wouldn't change a thing' after losing a prelim by 70 points to a team that lost the gf by 70 points.

Just your casual just missed the flag by a tiny 145 points and proceeded to piss and shit the bed for the next 12 months