Review Saints vs Cats review

[PaddysurDaddy]

FB: Geary - Brown - Webster
HB: Roberton - Carlisle - Newnes
RK: Longer - Steven - Steele
CR: Montagna - Ross - Membrey
HF: Marshall - Riewoldt - Gresham
FF: Minchington - McCartin - Weller
IC: Sinclair Billings Stevens Acres

I like hickey and think he's probably the best option we have, but I'd like to see this side on the park for a few games. Longer helped our clearances.

Riewoldt and Membrey rotate as they see fit, 'total football' style. Gilbert makes way for stevens (gilbert has been pretty good but I'd like to see stevens get a run when he's fit). Backline is solid. Rice and White can wait a little longer - Web might have to make way at some point form permitting.

 

[SAINTsincebirth]

Its funny, when we were up for the first three quarters the commentators were saying we were too fast for Geelong.

Amazing how when the effort drops off we look slow again. Comes down to our mid fields ability to cover ground both ways and who has the ball in hand.

Not like Geelong was resting for the first three quarters, they still had to chase and cover ground. Just seemed like when we kicked acouple of goals and would get ahead we just seemed to think it was just going to happen. Yes some would say momentum was killed by umpiring etc, but at the end of the day the only thing that counts is the score board. Every game this year and even last year we just seem to switch off.....

Surprising how a whole team can just rolled over. Especially with guys like Geary, weller etc who go hard no matter what.

 

[bennymc7]

Apparently got a knock to the hip.

Was after half time, blicavs got him when he marked inside f50 with a solid knee

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

Please.

The umpires were confusing and pathetic both ways.

As popular as it is to be in the "we were harshly treated by the umpires" camp, especially here on this board, I agree with this.

Geelong got some calls going their way early (Selwood high free when running into his own man springs to mind) but there were several decisions (or non-decisions) that went our way too. There was a mark not paid (Horlin-Smith?) that springs to mind, could easily point out a dozen more I reckon if I bothered to watch a replay of just generally poor umpiring that favoured each side at one time or another.

 

[bennymc7]

Our ruck debate is interesting..

My view is a ruckmans job is too ruck, i couldn't give a stuff if longer doesn't have 20 touches and 5 marks.. as long as we win the prune out of the guts

 

[Joffaboy]

Purposely stayed off this thread last night, now because I was angry, just extremely disappointed the way we gave up in the last 20 minutes.
Dont mind losing but I hate it when we turn it up.
Sure this has been covered in the thread but we need to use our dps and SC to pick up at least 3 mids with outside run.

We get smashed every single week in the mids.

Oh and still think Hickey is better than Longer.
Longer was OK in the ruck for a while but did SFA in general play.

If we just want a tap ruck why not put in Holmes.
If wr dont beat Hawthorn we will be 2-4 after the GWS game.

At least maybe 2 top 10 picks coming up.

 

[The Punter]

Apparently got a knock to the hip.

Ten minutes into the first quarter? If it wasn't for bad luck we'd have no luck.

 

[The Punter]

Purposely stayed off this thread last night, now because I was angry, just extremely disappointed the way we gave up in the last 20 minutes.
Dont mind losing but I hate it when we turn it up.
Sure this has been covered in the thread but we need to use our dps and SC to pick up at least 3 mids with outside run.

We get smashed every single week in the mids.

Oh and still think Hickey is better than Longer.
Longer was OK in the ruck for a while but did SFA in general play.

If we just want a tap ruck why not put in Holmes.
If wr dont beat Hawthorn we will be 2-4 after the GWS game.

At least maybe 2 top 10 picks coming up.

Good point here - Longer may be better than Hickey as a pure tap ruckman, but he's not our best option as a pure tap ruckman.

 

[The_Steadier]

We were beating them at the contest in the first half but that fell away in the 2nd half. Thats also a trend that's happened most of the year as well. So the issue is more that we can't run out games imo.

Of course, a Hopper/Fyfe/Rocky couldn't hurt.

I agree. It looked on the scoreboard like we only fell off a cliff in the last bit of Q4... but the reality is we hit the wall a lot sooner than that.

We spent all our energy in Q3 for very little impact on the scoreboard.
We didn't play any tempo footy like we did so well the week before against the pies.

Letting the game be an end to end shootout all day (without getting scoreboard rewards) cost us the game.

Either we get fitter or smarter.
Fitness takes longer to develop, so for us to do anything this year we need to play a whole lot smarter.

Oh and i really liked longers game, but his time on the pine absolutely killed us.
Even without the knocks, it seemed he only has the tank to play 10-12 minutes before coming off for 5-10 mins.
Hickey can do almost double that, plus cover lots more ground while he's out there too.

I hope for ours and billy sakes his tank is A LOT better than he showed yesterday, and it was just the knocks that kept him off

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

As popular as it is to be in the "we were harshly treated by the umpires" camp, especially here on this board, I agree with this.

Geelong got some calls going their way early (Selwood high free when running into his own man springs to mind) but there were several decisions (or non-decisions) that went our way too. There was a mark not paid (Horlin-Smith?) that springs to mind, could easily point out a dozen more I reckon if I bothered to watch a replay of just generally poor umpiring that favoured each side at one time or another.

Sorry to intrude again but if you watch the footage of that 1st quarter incident again I think you'll find Roberton take Selwood high half a second after he collided with Smith.

 

[George]

Interesting comments from Richo post game. Mentioned in both the members message and press conference that he now expects more from our midfielders, noting that they've reached a certain point in their careers (games played) that they should be better than that (in reference to Geelong's last quarter dominance).

I know some of us have seen our midfield deficiencies for a while now so it's not surprising hearing them from the club but I thought to say it publicly was interesting and a bit of a kick up the arse to those in the midfield group.

You look at the guys who run through the midfield and you can see quite clearly who needs to start performing.

Disposals through the first five rounds.

Jack Steven: 27, 20, DNP, DNP, 30
David Armitage: 16, DNP, DNP, 17, DNP
Seb Ross: 16, 29, 23, 36, 33
Jack Steele: 23, 18, 18, 20, 21
Luke Dunstan: 16, 20, 22, 11, 12

Steven & Ross are holding up the midfield. Steele has been good for his first year with the club so I'm not worried about him. Armitage has had a horror run with injuries so this should be factored into his performances. Luke Dunstan's performances this year is the really worrying thing for me.

For a former captain of the U18 SA side he is really under performing. He has now played 58 games and is averaging 17 disposals per game through his career. Simply just not good enough for a player who's been in the system now for four years. To be only averaging 16 touches a game in his fourth year with 3 games under 20 possessions is poor. His last two games of 11 and 12 touches (With 64% and 65% TOG respectively) is downright pathetic.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We were beating them at the contest in the first half but that fell away in the 2nd half. Thats also a trend that's happened most of the year as well. So the issue is more that we can't run out games imo.

Of course, a Hopper/Fyfe/Rocky couldn't hurt.

I was disappointed that we weren't as far in front as we should have been by half times.
Yeah our ball use could have been better, but also the Umps had obviously decided to keep them in the game.
The whole momentum of the second half would have changed if their players thought our lead was unassailable.

I just got angry not just at the free's that gave them scores ( especially the Montagna 50). But also watching things like one of our forwards ( Membrey ) being practically mugged by the defender playing on him, pushing him to the ground not even allowing him to go close to the ball.
How did Geary hurt his head? Did he get a free? Are the AFL protecting "ALL" players heads or just the ones who like banging their heads on their own teammate? I hope a heap of end of career concussed players sue the AFL on the grounds of poor enforcement of their own standards.

 

[Saintbloke]

Its funny, when we were up for the first three quarters the commentators were saying we were too fast for Geelong.

Amazing how when the effort drops off we look slow again. Comes down to our mid fields ability to cover ground both ways and who has the ball in hand.

Not like Geelong was resting for the first three quarters, they still had to chase and cover ground. Just seemed like when we kicked acouple of goals and would get ahead we just seemed to think it was just going to happen. Yes some would say momentum was killed by umpiring etc, but at the end of the day the only thing that counts is the score board. Every game this year and even last year we just seem to switch off.....

Surprising how a whole team can just rolled over. Especially with guys like Geary, weller etc who go hard no matter what.

Seems to be a trait of Richo's coaching- whatever he is saying to the team during the break must be sending them to sleep.

 

[The_Steadier]

Our ruck debate is interesting..

My view is a ruckmans job is too ruck, i couldn't give a stuff if longer doesn't have 20 touches and 5 marks.. as long as we win the prune out of the guts

What about being a target for backmen to kick to down the line?
Our backmen were burned often by billy being in no mans land in the centre square 80 meters from the ball.

All we needed was a large body with a pulse to aim a long kick at... he couldn't get to the wing to provide it.
So we wasted lots of time and energy having to switch the ball back across to the other wing.
Hickey always at least gives us something to kick to out of defence

 

[Persevering Saint]

We were smashed in the fourth by the Dees, the Eagles and Cats blew us away in the fourth, we fell away in the fourth against the Pies and Lions so there's definitely a problem there.
And as someone pointed out that was the theme for a large part of last year as well.

I'm hoping the coach is devising a plan.

I would have hoped the coach had devised a plan back around November.

 

[Rors]

Simple thing is we will not win games just bombing the ball long inside 50 hoping that Bruce, Membrey & Roo will take contested marks.

We need to bide our time & hit up leads. Clear out the forward line & allow the key forwards to come at the ball.

I'm sick of seeing Bruce trying to wrestle backmen to take a mark. He's simply not strong enough & not that type of player. Go back to leading to the ball. He looked good a few times yesterday when we honoured him, but 2-3 times is not enough

 

[#gosaintas]

Simple thing is we will not win games just bombing the ball long inside 50 hoping that Bruce, Membrey & Roo will take contested marks.

We need to bide our time & hit up leads. Clear out the forward line & allow the key forwards to come at the ball.

Or you could take the Sam Gilbert approach. Sprint towards the 50 and then, under little pressure, boot it 50m, ten rows back into the stands. Just hysterical.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Interesting comments from Richo post game. Mentioned in both the members message and press conference that he now expects more from our midfielders, noting that they've reached a certain point in their careers (games played) that they should be better than that (in reference to Geelong's last quarter dominance).

I know some of us have seen our midfield deficiencies for a while now so it's not surprising hearing them from the club but I thought to say it publicly was interesting and a bit of a kick up the arse to those in the midfield group.

You look at the guys who run through the midfield and you can see quite clearly who needs to start performing.

Disposals through the first five rounds.

Jack Steven: 27, 20, DNP, DNP, 30
David Armitage: 16, DNP, DNP, 17, DNP
Seb Ross: 16, 29, 23, 36, 33
Jack Steele: 23, 18, 18, 20, 21
Luke Dunstan: 16, 20, 22, 11, 12

Steven & Ross are holding up the midfield. Steele has been good for his first year with the club so I'm not worried about him. Armitage has had a horror run with injuries so this should be factored into his performances. Luke Dunstan's performances this year is the really worrying thing for me.

For a former captain of the U18 SA side he is really under performing. He has now played 58 games and is averaging 17 disposals per game through his career. Simply just not good enough for a player who's been in the system now for four years. To be only averaging 16 touches a game in his fourth year with 3 games under 20 possessions is poor. His last two games of 11 and 12 touches (With 64% and 65% TOG respectively) is downright pathetic.

Playing in a different side, but Koby Stevens averaged 22 last season, not necessarily playing in his best position. That's more than Steele and certainly more than Dunstan or Minchington.
I know he's not god's gift to football, but i think he's best 22 for the Saints and if not for a bad run of luck ( food poisoning /concussion ) he'd be there now. Unless Dunstan pulls his finger out , or Stevens has more bad luck i think he'll make the team sooner or later.

 

[cats2rise]

As popular as it is to be in the "we were harshly treated by the umpires" camp, especially here on this board, I agree with this.

Geelong got some calls going their way early (Selwood high free when running into his own man springs to mind) but there were several decisions (or non-decisions) that went our way too. There was a mark not paid (Horlin-Smith?) that springs to mind, could easily point out a dozen more I reckon if I bothered to watch a replay of just generally poor umpiring that favoured each side at one time or another.

The smith-running-in-to-Selwood thing was obviously the wrong call (although I have not watched it back, only at the game so could be wrong?) and it set the tone for various confusing decisions both way where nobody knew what it was for, OR why something was not given.

Was definitely a poor day by the umpires, and is surely something both camps can agree on.

 

[Impatient Saint]

I find it surprising that Richo thought he had the midfield group to go with the better teams. This is what frustrates the shyte out of me about his coaching he simply hasnt been prepared to give other players the same opportunities through the midfield as Dunstan & Billings etc. People continually right off Minchington and Sinclair as not AFL standard but if they got the oppotunities that Richo's love children did they would prove to be more than capable.

Longer played his first AFL game in 2 years and ran out of legs lets give him a couple more games to get up to the tempo of the game. He rucked well and gave first use a numbr of times.

Stevens should have played yesterday not Dunstan. Dunstan is cooked and crying out for a break in the VFL.
Billings is a long way short of becoming a solid midfielder or even a wingmen.

Recruit midfielders who can run and spread and cope with the aerobic requirements of the game. At the moment we have 2 Steven & Ross better sides have 6-8 capable mids. We are akin to a Holden Statesman with a 2litre engine.

 

[cats2rise]

do you seriously have nothing better to do?

12 years years posting on bigfooty indicates no, I have nothing better to do.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sorry to intrude again but if you watch the footage of that 1st quarter incident again I think you'll find Roberton take Selwood high half a second after he collided with Smith.

The way i see it Selwood put his head low.

 

[VDS66]

Identify holes in our list - tick

Understand we are a mid-table team - tick

Acknowledge some players still raw and need time - tick

Everything else - copy'n'paste the same shit every week...

 

[VDS66]

Purposely stayed off this thread last night, now because I was angry, just extremely disappointed the way we gave up in the last 20 minutes.
Dont mind losing but I hate it when we turn it up.
Sure this has been covered in the thread but we need to use our dps and SC to pick up at least 3 mids with outside run.

We get smashed every single week in the mids.

Oh and still think Hickey is better than Longer.
Longer was OK in the ruck for a while but did SFA in general play.

If we just want a tap ruck why not put in Holmes.
If wr dont beat Hawthorn we will be 2-4 after the GWS game.

At least maybe 2 top 10 picks coming up.

Been mentioned a few times mate. We need some quality runners urgently, and a decent inside mid.

For all the shit he gets, Selwood is a battering ram... which we don't really have.

I'd give an inside beast via FA and then 2 outside guns...

 

[dolph]

In light of our midfield issues, why don't we/haven't we tried Newnes in the centre square more rather than the wing or back flank? His pre season running tells me he has good endurance, he has pace, he is hard at it and is generally a good user. Surely worth a try? As we all know we have an abundance of back flankers/pockets on our list and we have players that could sit on the wing. So I feel we could cover those holes it would leave.