Sam Jacobs

[Phhht]

So a 15 possession 44 hitout game still wasn't enough to start to convince you?

Keep in mind he is only 1 year ahead of Lobbe. Do you think Lobbe will be doing that come this time next year?

Never said the kid cant play so there is no amount of 'convincing' to be done. My issue is what it will cost us. We dont need Jacobs at the cost most here are willing to pay. We have other needs to address before that one.

And as far as Lobbe is concerned, can guarrantee you that he wont be doing it if Jacobs is here and basically stunts his development. Then this time next year or the year after we will be lamenting why we spent pick 16 and 3-4 years of development on someone who wants to seek greener pastures elsewhere or wasn't given the opportunity to progress here.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

Happy to pick up Jacobs for our Krakouer pick.

Wouldnt want to pay any more.

Probably not enough, so no thanks.

 

[Coobk001]

Never said the kid cant play so there is no amount of 'convincing' to be done. My issue is what it will cost us. We dont need Jacobs at the cost most here are willing to pay. We have other needs to address before that one.

Ok fair enough, now I get what you've been saying. I think the above is where I disagree with you though. Our recruiters should be using our first draft pick on a mid and the second on a ruckman, so IMO if we can get a quality one like Jacobs who is guaranteed to come on with that pick rather than risk it on another Barry Brooks, Ryan Willits type etc. then that is worth trading for everyday of the week, especially when we have no proven ruck talent on our list.

 

[BlueGibbs2011]

Pick 26-28 whatever we can get for Motlop should be a good price.

Meanwhile on the 2 rucks thing..... Jacob's would be our number 1, so why worry about a second? Personally if I was the new coach I'd ask Broges to retire, get Jacobs then work forward with Jacobs as our number 1 and Lobbe as number 2. We wont be any good for a couple years so if we can get a ruckman that'll be a gun when we are in our prime like Jacobs then DO IT!!! Jacobs will be better than anyone we've got and we'd be stupid not to at least try and get him.

Hit nail head. Good post

 

[PJ Power]

Used car salesman's eyes must light up when some of you guys walk on their lots.

While I realise (at least I hope) that you're jesting Ford, the fact is that I have seen him play once, in a very tough final, and he played really well. The comments about Judd making him look good could almost have been reversed in this particular game. Jacobs repeatedly hooked the ball down into the direct path of Judd and the other mids. It was a very dominant hit-out display at least until 10 minutes to go in the game.

Does that make the grass greener on the other side??????

I never once suggested that we use anything more than a second round pick on him, and the compensatory pick we gain for Krakouer would be ample IMO. If that exchange transpires, I would be quite comfortable knowing that we lost a flaky, mentally fragile HBF for a physically strong ruckman who has been described as being very determined to improve the deficiencies in his game.

I would much prefer this method for acquiring a ruckman, who could play for us for the next 6-8 years, than taking the more uncertain route of using pick 16 to draft an 18yo project ruckman. What I don't want us to do in any way, is to use our first round pick or the Salopek trade to acquire a ruckman, even if it is for the much hyped Lycett. Our biggest deficiency personnel-wise is in the midfield. We are simply second rate here compared to all the teams in the top 8, albeit mainly because Hartlett and Gray haven't been able to develop as yet in the centre-square. I would be pissed off if our first two draft picks were not used on mids this year.

Our "Krakouer pick" for Jacobs would be fair on our part and sensible IMO - all the moreso if it means we don't have to commit to drafting/trading for a ruck again in the foreseeable future. Have to move onto bigger and more important catches.

Just to emphasise, I'm certainly not advocating that we pay any more than one second rounder for him

 

[PJ Power]

So the question for those who don't want us to pursue this kid, is would you like to see another ruckman on our list beyond 2011?
If the answer is no, then fair enough - three rucks (Bass, Redden, Lobbe) and a rookie-listed leaper (Webb) with some pinch-hitters (Trengove, Stewart, Westhoff) may be adequate. Just make sure that none of you request we use early draft picks to pick up a new ruckman in any of the next 5 years

Personally, I would see trading for Jacobs as simply an AFL-ready replacement for the spot that Brogan occupies in our squad, given that Dean will likely retire next year. If we get Jacobs, then hopefully a new coach will be big enough and wise enough not to select him in front of Lobbe for the sake of it. Like the other young rucks on our list, he will need to perform to AFL standard to warrant his selection.

 

[Phhht]

The comments about Judd making him look good could almost have been reversed in this particular game. Jacobs repeatedly hooked the ball down into the direct path of Judd and the other mids.

So you are saying that Jacobs made Judd look good

The best part of Jacobs game was that at the centre bounces he was able to tap the ball down. That is it. Around the ground he was below average other than perhaps 1 maybe 2 marking efforts.

the fact is that I have seen him play once, in a very tough final, and he played really well.

Does that make the grass greener on the other side??????

Probably does. Just like if you were to walk onto a car lot and see a shiny car sitting their that sounds nice

So the question for those who don't want us to pursue this kid, is would you like see another ruckman on our list beyond 2011?

Depends. If you told me we could snag the next Kruezer or NicNat then why not?

Just make sure that none of you request we use early draft picks to pick up a new ruckman in any of the next 5 years

So what you are saying is that Collingwood shouldn't have drafted Jolly?

Personally, I would see trading for Jacobs as simply an AFL-ready replacement for the spot that Brogan occupies in our squad, given that Dean will likely retire next year. If we get Jacobs, then hopefully a new coach will be big enough and wise enough not to select him in front of Lobbe for the sake of it. Like the other young rucks on our list, he will need to perform to AFL standard to warrant his selection.

Then why trade for him? Why would Jacobs seek a trade here looking for more opportunities if this very scenario wouldn't happen?

The question for you PJ is .......come draft day and all the good mids are gone and we only have pick 16 available (because GC, WCE, Richmond, Brisbane, Essendon, Melbourne and Adelaide have stocked up on mids) and we only have pick 16 availablebecause we used our 2nd rounder on Jacobs, what would you do?

Remember, there is no guarrantee that we will use our compensation pick this year, there is no guarrantee Sal or Mots will be trdaed?

Draft picks this year and next are even more vaaluable than previous years.

 

[Malibu#27]

It looks like there is a chance Giles may not be available for us to redraft if we are considering that as an option to bolster our ruck depth ....

former Hawk Campbell on Radar for Suns

Sturt ruckman Jon Giles, who was once on Port Adelaide's list, is another potential ruck option if the Suns overlook Campbell. The Suns will need a seasoned ruckman in their inaugural squad, given that the teenagers they draft will be unable to play as front-line ruckmen immediately.

former Hawk Campbell on Radar for Suns

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Hit nail head. Good post

It's a terrible post unless you're Carlton. Let's go into a trade for Jacobs without a recognised ruckman on our list. Oh yeah, great thinking. Here we brought the Vaseline and our first round pick. Can we do anything else to make your ride enjoyable?

And seriously am I tripping when I read that? Retire Brogan? The guy was a giant for us this season. Played with a bung shoulder and broken ribs early in the year, missed 2 games all year (this from a guy people used to joke would miss games with a broken nail), rucked without genuine support, works tirelessly around the ground all game - and is an absolute example to young rucks on our list of how it should be done - and in my view was nearly our best player over the season, and had possibly his best season for us.

And our thank you would be, good one Dean, don't come back for pre-season, it's time you quit. Spare me.

 

[FishingRick04]

It's a terrible post unless you're Carlton. Let's go into a trade for Jacobs without a recognised ruckman on our list. Oh yeah, great thinking. Here we brought the Vaseline and our first round pick. Can we do anything else to make your ride enjoyable?

And seriously am I tripping when I read that? Retire Brogan? The guy was a giant for us this season. Played with a bung shoulder and broken ribs early in the year, missed 2 games all year (this from a guy people used to joke would miss games with a broken nail), rucked without genuine support, works tirelessly around the ground all game - and is an absolute example to young rucks on our list of how it should be done - and in my view was nearly our best player over the season, and had possibly his best season for us.

And our thank you would be, good one Dean, don't come back for pre-season, it's time you quit. Spare me.

I'm with you yeah, narr that would be alright, not retire him, but try and ease his workload.

I still maintain he's best as a no.2 ruck or at least equal ruck, if a Jolly type trade was to appear I think we would be crazy. But to sack his ass is craziness and I just don't want to deal with carlton to be honest as their supporters expectations are as bad as Collingwoods lol

Once again I am posting in this thread grrr

 

[Phhht]

I'm with you yeah, narr that would be alright, not retire him, but try and ease his workload.

I still maintain he's best as a no.2 ruck or at least equal ruck, if a Jolly type trade was to appear I think we would be crazy. But to sack his ass is craziness and I just don't want to deal with carlton to be honest as their supporters expectations are as bad as Collingwoods lol

Once again I am posting in this thread grrr

Yeap, they just keep coming up with the best trade scenarios dont they.

Lol.....as for this thread, I have also been trying to get out of it whilst I remain sane but geeeeez I cant help myself..shame Phhht shame.

Glutton for punishment I am.

 

[PJ Power]

So you are saying that Jacobs made Judd look good

The best part of Jacobs game was that at the centre bounces he was able to tap the ball down. That is it. Around the ground he was below average other than perhaps 1 maybe 2 marking efforts.

Ok............ We were watching a different game obviously. Agree to disagree.

If we get him, I'll be ok with that........if we don't, it certainly is no big deal either.

But the lad played a good game against a good opponent - end of story.

I wonder how much you and your other mates in this thread salivated at the rd 22 effort of Dan Stewart - why wasn't that just another Fergus Watts display?

 

[Phhht]

Ok............ We were watching a different game obviously. Agree to disagree.

If we get him, I'll be ok with that........if we don't, it certainly is no big deal either.

But the lad played a good game against a good opponent - end of story.

I wonder how much you and your other mates in this thread salivated at the rd 22 effort of Dan Stewart - why wasn't that just another Fergus Watts display?

Where did that come from??? Did you make it up or what?

Please find EXACTLY where I said anything of the sort about Daniel Stewart. Go on, do it. Dont tarnish all with the same brush please.

And yep, agree to disgaree.....you are clearly making a judgement call on a kid after seeing him in 1 game. He had 44 hit outs in a game against a team notorious for creating stoppage after stoppage.

And since we were clearly watching different games (apparently) can you please tell me what (other than hitouts) did the lad do that was so good? 1 mark perhaps? Please enlighten me, I have no issue admitting I am wrong but I would like some evidence rather than the assesments of an OK game H/Outs-wise in an elimination final. Or were you mislead by the ramblings of a passed-used by date former 'special' commentator who hasn't had a relevant comment on the game in years?

Oh and just so that you clearly understand my viewpoint.

1. Dont think Jacobs is a that bad a player.
2. Would take him IF he came at the right price (ie not our 2nd rounder)
3. Hope that he (Jacobs) proves me wrong (especially if we do get him)
4. I value our 2nd rounder this year and next year higher than an average 2nd string ruckman. (Please note, by average I dont mean it in a derogoratory sense.
5. We have more pressing needs that we need to address if we are to follow the path of building a top 4 quality team rather than looking for quick-fix stop gap measures. Jacobs as our no.1 ruck would be just that and if we only want him as a 2nd stringer 2nd rounder is too high a price.
6. Wouldn't be the first time I am wrong

 

[Spadge]

so now our captain comes out and says that a backup for Brogan is a high priority and that we should be targetting out of favour ruckmen such as Jacobs and Will Minson

A contradiction to what Rhode said yesterday

 

[PJ Power]

Where did that come from??? Did you make it up or what?

Please find EXACTLY where I said anything of the sort about Daniel Stewart. Go on, do it. Dont tarnish all with the same brush please.

And yep, agree to disgaree.....you are clearly making a judgement call on a kid after seeing him in 1 game. He had 44 hit outs in a game against a team notorious for creating stoppage after stoppage.

And since we were clearly watching different games (apparently) can you please tell me what (other than hitouts) did the lad do that was so good? 1 mark perhaps? Please enlighten me, I have no issue admitting I am wrong but I would like some evidence rather than the assesments of an OK game H/Outs-wise in an elimination final. Or were you mislead by the ramblings of a passed-used by date former 'special' commentator who hasn't had a relevant comment on the game in years?

Oh and just so that you clearly understand my viewpoint.

1. Dont think Jacobs is a that bad a player.
2. Would take him IF he came at the right price (ie not our 2nd rounder)
3. Hope that he (Jacobs) proves me wrong (especially if we do get him)
4. I value our 2nd rounder this year and next year higher than an average 2nd string ruckman. (Please note, by average I dont mean it in a derogoratory sense.
5. We have more pressing needs that we need to address if we are to follow the path of building a top 4 quality team rather than looking for quick-fix stop gap measures. Jacobs as our no.1 ruck would be just that and if we only want him as a 2nd stringer 2nd rounder is too high a price.
6. Wouldn't be the first time I am wrong

I'm making the point that to imply that I am quick to judge a player on one game (and I never called the bloke a gun) and insinuate that Jacobs' performance was akin to Fergus Watts (it may have been Ford who did this) is no different than our supporters getting excited about Daniel Stewart on the basis of a very good AFL game (rd 22) and a very good SANFL game (last year) as well as some good raw attributes. Perhaps you weren't in that category - I stated that I "wondered" about whether those of you averse to us taking Jacobs, were excited by Daniel Stewart's one good game. If you weren't, then ok.........I didn't accuse you or paint you with the one brush. I enquired about your response to Stewart after that one game - certainly got me excited with his future, but then again I'm apparently a sucker for used cars also.

FWIW, yeah, I did think he did more than just win the hit-outs. His taps were noticeablty to advantage, moreso, than I have seen for any of the matches that I've watched this year (I haven't watched 22 rds of Sandilands mind you). He seemed to have a good effort at the ground level ball, got his body in between his teammates and the opposition to protect them and was quick to get the ball onto boot out of the centre-square. I thought there was a bit of Dean Brogan about his centre-square efforts actually. Importantly, Carlton looked better with him in the ruck than when Warnock was there, which is why I'm surprised that they would let him go.

And like you, I don't want to pay over the odds for a ruckman, but I do think that the compensation pick for Krakouer would be about the mark for him.

Given Jacobs' young age, I think it's a different scenario to the Jolly trade, as Jacobs (if he's any good) woud provide us with a longterm ruck option that would hopefully complement Lobbe - so I see it more as a longterm investment rather than a quick fix.

As far as I'm concerned Brogan will continue to be our main man until his retirement.

To me, if we consolidate a decent 22yo ruck prospect this year, without blowing our first two draft picks, we can then relax about the issue of trading/drafting for a ruckman in the next few years and concentrate on building our midfield.

No big deal - if we disagree on this, so be it. You've probably seen more of Jacobs play than yesterday's game. If so, I'll have to bow to your greater knowledge of him.

Is there anyone out there who you would support us getting as another ruckman, or do you think our ruck stocks are ok?

 

[Ford Fairlane]

While I realise (at least I hope) that you're jesting Ford, the fact is that I have seen him play once, in a very tough final, and he played really well. The comments about Judd making him look good could almost have been reversed in this particular game. Jacobs repeatedly hooked the ball down into the direct path of Judd and the other mids. It was a very dominant hit-out display at least until 10 minutes to go in the game.

Only jesting insofar as I know the opinions of BF posters are irrelevant when clubs get together to sort out a trade. But the outpouring of unbridled enthusiasm for Jacobs on the back of one good game ... well it just made me think I was glad some posters here (not just you) are not involved in the trade. Do people want to make it any easier for Carlton supporters to come on here and demand the world for Jacobs?

On Dan Stewart, he certainly hasn't done anything yet to establish himself as an AFL player. Good signs, but a long way to go. Same as Jacobs. The funny thing I see at times with this board is Port supporters are so much more critical of their own than other players (or at times coaches). Who really knows if Lobbe - if given the opportunity Williams assured us he would get this year before backtracking and throwing Westhoff and Trengove into the ruck - would not have given us something more to hang our hat on among our own ruck stocks?

As others have said, I'm not opposed to getting him at the right price. I just don't think we as supporters need to make it any easier for our friends from other boards to drive his price up.

Oh and on the Fergus Watts reference, which may have been misunderstood by some, it was simply a reference to the jammy luck of a club that has a previously thought of so-so player producing the performance of his life just as he is about to be traded. Not that Jacobs would be the bust Watts turned out to be.

 

[PJ Power]

No question Ford that I think Lobbe could have provided us with the very effort that Jacobs produced, if given an opportunity this year.

I'm not suggesting that Jacobs is any better than Lobbe, Redden or Bass, but the kid looks ok to me. If we decide (as Dom has suggested) that we need another ruckman, getting a 22yo who has done the hard yards of development and can handle an AFL final quite well, seems like a fair strategy, as distinct from adding another project player to the duo of Redden and Bass.

If the decision is made that we don't need another ruckman, then part of me is relieved that we won't be wasting another first round pick (ala 2007) on a ruckman.

 

[blues4flag]

Some of you are judging him very harshly. He was stiff to get dropped late in the season, as he provides far more than Hampson in the ruck. Hampson got picked on potential and the ability to kick a goal but the MC made the right decision in playing Jacobs in the final.

He's only 22, (very young for a ruckman) with less than 20 games experience. He has shown significant improvement every season and has been without a doubt the best ruckman in the VFL this season.

His stats are already better than any of Adelaide's ruckmen (despite Maric being two years older and far more experienced).

Compares favourably with Brogan too: -2 disposals, -1.8 hitouts, +1 tackles, +0.2 goals per game.

When you factor in Jacobs' 65% gametime to Brogan's 80%, it becomes all the more impressive. On a per TOG basis, Jacobs is ahead in every statistic.

Stats aren't the all of it and he's not a super athlete. I've no doubt can hold down the number one position as early as next season. Put another 40 games and two preseasons into him and you'll have a very solid ruckman.

 

[Spadge]

im not underrating him
i like him and would love to see him at Port
compensation is the sticky point and i wouldnt be surprised to see Port flick the Krakouer compo pick over to Carlton if a deal involving Salopek isnt going to happen

 

[Portology]

Dom is quoted in today's paper saying the club should pick up a mature ruck to back up for Broges AND talking up Lobbe, Bass, Redden. It contradicts what Rohde said just the other day re us NOT needing to trade in a ruck. Maybe we're trying to look smarter in the pre-trading games, maybe the playing group don't agree with Rohde, I don't know. PR ****-up, internal conflict or a bit of both ? Now there's something Rucci and the 5CC morons ought to get stuck into us about, if they had the brains to notice.

Leaving that issue aside, here's where the logic of "we need one more ruck" gets complicated for me: why would Jacobs want to come here, there is competition just a year or so behind, add Trengove to the mix, 3 of 4 2nd ruck options already here are more flexible (can play forward), there is Lobbe-saurus on the list for pure Brogan back up already AND we don't even have a coach for 2011 who has said "I am in favour of playing 2 traditional dinosaur rucks" (not that you'd expect that luxury any time soon with our current mids). So why would Jacobs want to come here if he wasn't even going to get game time in 2011 any more than at Carlton ? Noted his performance Vs the Swans (the numbers stand out, I didn't get to watch it though) but that didn't help even the much hyped and on-paper very good sounding Carlton midfield. Full respect to Jacobs for that many hit outs but how is it going to help us 2011 and 2012 compared to the other options we could use a pick on ?

 

[wapower]

so now our captain comes out and says that a backup for Brogan is a high priority and that we should be targetting out of favour ruckmen such as Jacobs and Will Minson

A contradiction to what Rhode said yesterday

Our captain can see that the team needs a serviceable second ruck to support Dean Brogan and contradicts what Peter Rohde has said publicly about acquiring a second ruck in the past few days.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in our media department right now.

 

[GordonBlue]

I've been on the "we must keep Jacobs" bandwagon for a while... and I would be devestated if he leaves as I think he could be one of the best rucks in the AFL...

If you do pick him up, I will follow his career very closely cause I know there are going to be thread and articles written on "Why would Carlton ever let go of Jacobs"...

From a Carlton positive point of view... Ratts said we're gonna trade but not like everyone think we will... which could mean one of many things... but one thing it could mean is that we'll keep all our rucks, which everyone doesn't think will happen...

I hope that after trade week this thread is closed cause Jacobs was never traded...

 

[Gray Day]

Hello.

Jacobs would be a good pickup for Port, he's definitely a capable, if not very athletic, ruckman. I'm also sure he would be keen to move back to his home state where he is virtually guaranteed a game every week. Port can definitely facilitate that next season.

It's all about which direction the Port list is heading in. Do Port see two (Brogan will not be around forever) of Lobbe, Trengove, Bass, Redden, etc as likely 10 year Port ruckmen? If so, then there should be no interest in making a possible deal. I like the look of Jacobs, he's strong and wins a good share of taps but there's no point if he doesn't improve our list long term.

Dom is one of my favourite players but he seems to be wanting his cake and eating it too in this case.

Port needs some more class on the ball if anything.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

After much consideration and watching D2: The Mighty Ducks on the weekend (with the BASH BROTHERS!) I like the idea of perhaps getting Jacobs and having the future of him and Lobbe as a 1A/1B situation. Where if we need a big boy to go up against a big boy, then we play Jacobs as the main ruck, and if we need someone more mobile then we bring the Lobster in as main ruck.

Good to have that sort of versatility. But I don't want to pay any more than a second round draft pick for him.

 

[powermacs]

After much consideration and watching D2: The Mighty Ducks on the weekend (with the BASH BROTHERS!) I like the idea of perhaps getting Jacobs and having the future of him and Lobbe as a 1A/1B situation. Where if we need a big boy to go up against a big boy, then we play Jacobs as the main ruck, and if we need someone more mobile then we bring the Lobster in as main ruck.

Good to have that sort of versatility. But I don't want to pay any more than a second round draft pick for him.

I've been wanting us to try the flying V thing for a while now. That Dawson's creek kid sure can coach.